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You can land on the moon without the knowledge of ballistics, metalworking or even mining

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Takfloyd, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    Oh, and you don't need computers, plastics, machinery or even the knowledge of combustion either.

    So how exactly are we pulling off that feat of technology? Even a wooden catapult is outside of our knowledge if you beeline directly for Satellites. So is gunpowder, so a giant space cannon is out. I guess we use the world's largest slingshot? I don't envy our hypothetical civ's Neil Armstrong!

    I think it's high time Firaxis took another look at the tech tree, which has remained pretty static since vanilla. So much of it makes no sense whatsoever, mainly because of the prioritization of "streamlined UI" over logic or historicity. The devs were clearly deathly afraid of lines in the tech tree crossing over one another, so anything at the lower side of the tech tree screen can never affect the top side.

    Civilization IV solved this easily by having secondary requirements for many techs, shown as icons in the top right corner of the technology on the tech tree. That way it could be ensured that ridiculous skips like this wouldn't happen. Meanwhile, attempts at reducing beelining in Civ VI have amounted to adding extra connections between unrelated techs just because they're next to eachother on the tree, such as how Military Tactics is now a requirement for Mass Production. The devs probably think it looks more elegant, but in reality it just looks stupid.

    There are mods that seek to fix these issues, but because of how the tech tree works in its current state, those mods just become an unreadable mess of overlapping lines. We either need diagonal lines which would be easier to follow on the screen, or Civ IV's system. It'll probably never happen, but I had to voice my frustrations anyway.
     
    God of Kings, Jkchart, f1rpo and 5 others like this.
  2. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    Radio is a prerequisite though, giving broadcast centers... Maybe it was indeed a hoax filmed in NASAs basement!
     
  3. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    You solved it, it all makes sense now
     
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  4. Melliores

    Melliores Chieftain

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    Didn't you need Aluminium for that project, thus a mine ? Alternatively, you can still trade for it, but some of the prerequisites are not that obvious. :)
     
  5. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    And that is why, after my first game, I created Real Tech Tree. Number of such gaps and absurdities is immersion breaking for me.
    Re: lines. The connection lines won’t cross because the algorithm here creates „junctions” between columns and runs the lines through there. As a result - they overlap. Not the ideal solution but flexible enough to actually handle more connections. I don’t expect that this algorithm will ever be changed by Firaxis (no real benefit at a huge cost, no „business case”).
    So, in summary: you can have a better „content” or better „visuals”. Your choice.
     
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  6. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    You don't, and like you said it's possible to trade for resources you haven't unlocked anyway.

    I think there should also be requirements that cross over between the tech and civics trees, though none that could potentially stop progress completely on one of the trees. As examples, Social Media makes no sense without Computers and Space Race makes no sense without Rocketry. Just make civics or techs like that leaf techs so they don't obstruct progress if you lack the prerequisite tech or civic in the other tree.

    Eurekas, when they make sense at least, are a good way to implement soft requirements for when something would be much harder to develop without another development in place, but sometimes it would just be blatantly impossible to do, and eurekas aren't enough in those cases.
     
  7. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    I have looked at your mod in the past, and it's a good alternative if you're desperate, but when the tech tree becomes a completely unreadable mess it's not an improvement on the current state to me. It needs to be redone in terms of how it's designed.
     
  8. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    I thought that you were complaining about lack of obvious connections in the tech tree and not readability of the tree.
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood.
     
  9. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    It's kinda weird how unnecessary computers are.
     
  10. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    It's all done with Mentats and Spice.
     
  11. Swashbuckler.

    Swashbuckler. Chieftain

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    You can make battering ram without tech wheel, even tough battering ram has wheels. :crazyeye:
     
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  12. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    with coastal flooding how it is I find myself beelining computers once I start getting close to the modern era/atomic era. Strange that I look to devices to manipulate electrical signals to prevent the ocean from riding up onto my land. :D
     
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  13. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    The tech tree is pretty horrible in Civ VI. In Civ IV, I used to be able to think "Well, I really want to get to knights, so I'll need to research this tech first, and then this..." and it all made sense. Now it's just like pulling up the tech tree constantly to figure it out. It never has made sense.
     
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  14. ZimZum514

    ZimZum514 Chieftain

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    Stanley Kubrick is a required Great Artist.
     
  15. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    In CivIV you could build cannons on boats without the ability to build cannons on land.
     
  16. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    I knew someone with a perfect memory would of course chime in about how there was some flaw in Civ IV's tech tree. I didn't say it was perfect, but it for the most part made sense. There was a good flow to it. Civ VI is much more random I feel like.
     
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  17. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    It just always struck me as strange. Anyhow, I think what you're seeing in 6 is just a product of now having two different trees. It doesn't feel random to me but there are definitely more gaps.
     
  18. Tyroq

    Tyroq Chieftain

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    Unless you want to build a concrete wall to keep your cities dry, then suddenly computers are super essential! #Logic
     
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  19. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Balance will always come before adherence to any kind of realistic or historical norm.

    Note this is not me saying as-is it's currently balanced, but that I support any deviation from the norm for this sake.
     
  20. L4Psha

    L4Psha Chieftain

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    I'm always saying to myself if such oddities occur that techs give you an ability to make something all by yourself. For example - if you need computer for your project you can buy an import. If you discover a principle of flight, you may buy (offscreen, imaginary) engines which you don't yet have. Or some things take another form than we see today. For example - social networks without computers. Maybe not the best example but once i saw a cartoon about critters where penguin invented some kind of teletype which were used exactly like chats today - everyone were communicating throught it and the point of the cartoon was importance of live communication and conversation. But what i'm saying that yes if looking straightforward at tech tree it looks stupid and have no sence in some places, but if you show some imagination you can come up with some, maybe far fetched or overstretched explanation.
     

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