Timsup2nothin
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I consider it my civic duty to stop and observe anything the police are doing and offer myself as a witness.
You have no right to remain silent - anything you don't say may be held against you
- Thread starter JollyRoger
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I consider it my civic duty to stop and observe anything the police are doing and offer myself as a witness.
Gori the Grey
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Exactly. Just also don't not talk to them.
Because you've been tricked into thinking you have rights. You don't.I have never understood why a right should have to be invoked. It's a friggin' right, it exists whether you invoke it or not. If this does not get overturned, I'll... well I'll be plenty pissed.
Your idea of what's a 'right' is very different from the practical reality. You have privileges.
And the courts have ruled repeatedly that your privileges can be arbitrarily restricted based on context.
If you really had any rights, there wouldn't be these restrictions.
Wise up, man.
No, I won't wise up. I get that the courts interpretations are the law of the land because that's just how our system has evolved stupidly, but they're wrong. I do indeed have rights, and the incorrect interpretations of the SC does not change that. My rights may be denied, but that doesn't mean I don't have them.
Inalienable, ya know?
Inalienable, ya know?
Timsup2nothin
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Inalienable in theory, eroded in practice.
How do you contribute?
Do you say 'only guilty people need a lawyer', or do you tell everyone you know to never, ever, under any circumstances, answer any question from law enforcement without one? Because if people routinely answer questions not only are they putting themselves at risk they are also creating an environment where asking for a lawyer, as is your right, is taken as admission of guilt.
Do you answer 'get a warrant' any time a cop asks if he can look in your car during a routine traffic stop? Because at present if someone tells a cop to get a warrant it is considered probable cause in itself by most cops, and they will immediately trump up something to tell the judge to get the warrant issued. Your protection against illegal searches is almost completely gone...because people with 'nothing to hide' just say 'go ahead' rather than accept the delay while the cop gets the warrant. If those warrants started coming back 'nothing found' over and over and over something could be done about how easy they are to get. By the way, there are plenty of people charged with plenty of crimes when something they had no idea was there is found during those searches, so 'just go ahead' is a dumb choice anyway.
Take back your parks, and take back your sidewalks. There isn't really a criminal behind every bush. The cops put out these wildly exaggerated statistics to scare the law abiding people indoors, and any that don't go for fear of the 'criminals' they roust and treat like criminals until they go too. If more people knew what it's like to get rousted for walking in your own neighborhood the cops wouldn't be able to get away with it...and getting rousted just for walking around is a violation of rights that people just seem to be letting happen as long as it is only happening to someone else.
You want your rights to be inalienable...take action to protect them.
Eh, I am not wild about that absolute reasoning. If I choose to let a cop search my car once without a warrant, that in no way means, nor should it, that I relinquish my right to refuse later.
That's like saying just because a woman consents to sex once that she can no longer say no in the future...
That's like saying just because a woman consents to sex once that she can no longer say no in the future...
Timsup2nothin
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It isn't an individual thing.
Next time you get stopped and you have a little time try it out.
I promise you...if you ask for your rights you will immediately be treated like a criminal...and that is the path where we all lose our rights. Oh, I don't have time so go ahead...oh, I hate being treated like a criminal so go ahead...
How do you think cops get trained to just trample people's rights? They don't actually teach them that in some sort of gestapo cop school. We teach them by letting them do it.
Mise
isle of lucy
Oh you Americans and your "inalienable rights"! We Brits long ago acknowledged that all rights are conditional and subordinate to the greater good. Which is whatever the police, army or government fancy doing at any point in time.
Borachio
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Yeah. I sort of see what you mean.
But cops are just people, too. You're talking like they aren't a part of society, but something outside it, attempting to control it, for reasons which aren't very apparent to me.
The police can only operate with the consensus of the public. Without your tacit acquiesence, they would be absolutely powerless.
The police aren't perfect (how could they be otherwise? They're no different from anyone else), but without them, wouldn't we all be victims of the hoodlums?
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
I agree that we need the police, but I think Tim has a point here. The cops do try to subvert people's rights because it makes their job so much easier.
Timsup2nothin
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Quoting this, but answering Borachio also.
Cops are people, and part of society, and if you ask one he would probably not want to be part of the erosion of rights even if it does make his job easier. Just like the guy who answers questions without a lawyer, the cop asking the questions isn't likely giving much thought to the larger effects...the tacit disregarding of rights. It isn't that the cops are going out of their way to take them, people are just giving them up so it become habitual for both sides.
Then we make laws (Miranda) that make it the cops responsibility to remind people of their rights. Doesn't that in itself point to the source of the problem? If people could get in the habit of exercising their rights instead of just letting them lie around getting fat we'd all have less trouble.
They do, but in practice, natural rights are a euphemism and guiding principle: lawmaking bodies and law enforcement, by their own nature, are legal positivists.
Parliamentary
Nobody
Gangster
Who crashes into someone and dosent immediately ask how the other person is? A scum bag.
Terxpahseyton
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You also are the possession of some old lady with a funny hat, so...
kochman
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Oh man... well, as Tim said, the reality is, the inalienable is eroding, and not just the 5th Amendment.
This is actually insane that the US SC would rule this way.
I guess those appointed judges... oh, wait, wrong thread.
I'm flabbergasted by this and will need some time to really process it.
That's not really the point.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
Unless you're black, in which case such actions give the police officer justification to shoot at you until you are dead.
Link to video.
Timsup2nothin
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Or even longer.
Someone in shock, I imagine.
This needs to happen. I'm thinking an app that continually records the last 10 minutes and stores it in the phone, while allowing the 11th minute to be deleted. Then, with a simple swipe, you upload and cause continuous uploading
That's pretty simple, something I could throw together in a few hours, but it would trash the battery life on a phone. You'd need a phone with hardware expressly designed for the purpose, like the Moto X has for its always-listening 'OK Google" feature.
And uploading audio is fairly cpu/bandwidth intensive... I'd really like the idea of calling a remote number which is set to automatically record, that way you just have to punch a speeddial contact and everything is instantaneously saved remotely.
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