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You know what... I do want CIV IV.5!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by RobAnybody, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. RobAnybody

    RobAnybody King

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    There's something I've come to realize after numerous people saying "You just wanted Civ IV.5" I realized that I do, in fact, want CIV IV.5. Unapologetically.

    I want CIV IV with hexes, with units restricted by resources, with buildings restricted by resources, with city-states, with Social Policies (that perhaps interacted with Civics), with borders that expand 1-tile-at-a-time, independent GP counters, Natural Wonders, Scouts that can attack, maybe even with road-maintenance to decrease the # of roads.

    No global happiness, no 1UPT (negotiable, if the AI could handle it), no nerfed-resources, no generic lvl1, lvl2, lvl3 buildings, no nerfed production, no cloudy Diplomacy, no "AI's just play to win" (Ghandi should not DoW me because his military > mine).

    The more I think about it, CIV IV.5 sounds like an awesome game.
     
  2. Cueball

    Cueball Chieftain

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    I can't disagree with that. It does sound much more fun than the game we got.
     
  3. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Prince

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    Yes, you're right. Why be apologetic, especially once you've put enough hours in on 5 and fallen asleep over it. I kind of think it should be Civilization 4.1, though, not 4.5. Much cooler.

    Personally, I want to see Call to Power 3, of course...
     
  4. cf_nz

    cf_nz Prince

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    Since you're unlikely to be alone in this wish there's probably a better than average chance that an appropriate mod will come out eventually. I would think it less likely that official expansions and patches will do the job.
     
  5. Venereus

    Venereus This Is Streamlined!

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    Lately I've been thinking the mod that gets this done, should in fact be named Civ 4.5, no need to hide the cynism.
     
  6. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Prince

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    No cyn[ic]ism, I just really think 4.1 would be cooler.
     
  7. Asylumer

    Asylumer Chieftain

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    We only have to pray that Modding with the Library will allow us to do a lot of the things we want. In particular with regards to the AI since that's the part of the game that many feel needs the most work.
     
  8. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    They never opened the .exe for Civ 4...
     
  9. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    Eh, one thing I didn't like about IV is all the rushing to religions and corps. There was way too much of that and overall it was pretty silly (and at times OP). After V gets cleaned up, if they add religion or the like I'd want them to avoid that mess when reimplementing religion.

    Probably the best combat middle ground, taking into account the stupidity of the AI, would be to use armies of individual units like CTP2. Some have ventured this might be possible to mod into Civ V.
     
  10. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Well, to some they would call it Civ 3.596; since some of the ones around here seem to think that Civ 5 is very much like Civ 3. But some of those are the people that ended up hating Civ 5, and already hated Civ 3. Therefore they make the comparison only to be ignorant. Those same people when they first liked Civ 5, said it was like Civ 4. Oh the hypocrites!

    I will remind all these people of their statements once (if) Civ 5 is polished into a beautiful game by Firaxis 4 years down the road (if 2K stays out of the way; and Jon Shafer quits there will be a better chance).
     
  11. KM

    KM Warlord

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    CTP was and still is the perfect CIV game. I like the One unit per hex thought. AI can t handle it. Basicly the AI can t handle much at all in civ 5. I strted out at warlord since all thought I used to play civ 4 at diety after all I m new to civ 5. I ve played it throught up to king and I m gonna go directly for diety since AI just cant handle it. Basicly what it can t handle is war. If u make war then you win. Simple as that.

    All that thought doesn t matter in the real fight. That is against other real people. There the one unit per hex will seperate the boys and the ner..... hrmmm ...men ;o)
     
  12. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    Amen. 100% agree. Sounds like an awesome game.
     
  13. falconne

    falconne meep

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    Why bother making the Civ 4.5 mod in Civ 5? May as well improve Civ 4 itself. The only thing you can't bring to that is hexes. Bringing Civ 4 mechanics to 5 will be a lot harder that brining the few improvements from 5 in to 4 I reckon.
     
  14. Venereus

    Venereus This Is Streamlined!

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    But building upon Civ 5 will save our purchases!
     
  15. Kronoz

    Kronoz Chieftain

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    Yeah, I have to admit - it seems that I too was hoping for Civ4.5
     
  16. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    Eh, there's not a lot of Civ 4 I'd really want in Civ 5 that's not already there. I think people idolize Civ 4 too much.

    Religions were nice in some ways, but them and corporations were far too much about tech rushing so you could get them. IMHO, trying to get a better military, building wonders, and competing for city-space has more than enough rushing. We especially don't need MORE tech rushing -- it got completely crazy in Civ 4. Not to mention how silly it is that your civ could have no religion when that's something every human culture has (same with business). Religions should really be far more innate.

    When you let the bugs slide and assume the AI and Diplomacy improvements coming are going to be decent (and something to build on), then I think the rest of the ways to improve Civ V are really quite doable and it provides a better base to go with than Civ 4. I don't think modifying how happiness works should be too hard per se -- though I will say I like how unhappiness works in Civ 5 a lot more than previous Civs...the more neutral area before major problems makes a lot of sense. I don't think we really need all the tax sliders, though I think the game makes money too tight and has too few improvement possibilities (perhaps something like MOO2 would work with a tax rate you set for cash that comes with a happiness penalty -- that makes a good bit of sense to me).

    Eh, I'm probably in the minority in this thread on this though.
     
  17. Gaizokubanou

    Gaizokubanou Warlord

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    This is a great idea! I second that I too had desire for Civ4.5.
     
  18. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    Road maintenance sounded like a better idea than it ended up. Maybe if the maintenance was a lot less than it is now (but the cheaper it is, the easier to spam it). I think it would have been sufficient to just make roads not produce trade/money (except as far as connecting cities is concerned). Maintenance on top of that is too much. That said, money is kind of ridiculously difficult if you don't have rivers, and that's a big issue (but I don't think the right solution is making roads make money).

    When you think about it, compared to earlier civs, roads have 2 maintenance per tile, since you lose the trade/gold AND you have to pay on top of it.

    Not all of the buildings are really generic. The university for instance makes jungles produce science (though that's kind of crazy). I am disappointed after playing the game some that they went with global happiness instead of global food -- I think the latter would have been more realistic and fun (you could even have tech and buildings that let a citizen work multiple farm tiles or something, so farm-based cities would need less and less population to work tiles as tech advanced and that would be awesome). A lot of them are though. I'd have liked to see the Coliseum and Stadium produce money based on population (while still having a maintenance cost, thereby being profitable in large cities but not in smaller ones...that makes sense to me).

    Hmm, I wonder if there would be a way to change happiness into food and food into happiness so that you have global food and local happiness. Might be a quick and easy way to change things.

    I will say the production is pretty awful. One reason I'd like to have armies like CTP is that you could then have military units that were cheap to produce, but a real army would be expensive. That's a nice middle ground, and then 1 army per tile would make a lot of sense and preserve much of what is good in Civ 5 (again, like Call to Power). Buildings though are a big problem, I think there probably need to be more that are cheaper to maintain. There's just too little sense of progress as everything takes forever to make.

    As for the "playing to win", I think that is best handled by having allied victories. Let alliances be formable early on (maybe with writing or something), though have it possible to end an alliance. With non-murky diplomacy, it would be possible to win with an ally or two and you could even flesh out A.I. behavior (ideally) so some preferred winning one way or another. The main reason playing to win feels so wrong now is because Civ 5 is a zero-sum game, so cooperation only makes sense as a temporary thing.
     
  19. jagdtigerciv

    jagdtigerciv Prince

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    You probably are, but I certainly agree with you! Great points.
     
  20. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

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    A Civilization 4.5 would be great, except for the fact that there's still a bunch of bugs in Civ4 that remain to be fixed. Let alone an entire gameplay overhaul...

    Personally, I would fully support an Alpha Centauri 2. :D
     

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