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You know what... I do want CIV IV.5!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by RobAnybody, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. falconne

    falconne meep

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    You mean buildings and policies? The odd 15% boost here and there doesn't compare to just going on rampage. Population is still the biggest factor in science. Ignoring unhappiness and using the crate loads of gold you get from all those TPs to buy everything you need is by far the fastest win.


    That's exactly my point - you can't rampage in Civ 4, you have to expand then go the builder route for a while until you bring everything back in to line. With Civ 5, since war weariness is not a factor and there's no foreign trade, there's no reason to stop a war.

    Of course, even if all that is fixed, the game still remains terribly boring for a builder player. There's nothing to do but keep clicking End Turn till something happens - even when you get a decision the choice is obvious. I just start my wars out of sheer boredom.
     
  2. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    A library + university increases science by a factor of 2.25, making buildings a huge component.

    You can certainly rampage. You can't do it for a long, long time (not without certain civics and so forth anyhow). You just have to do rampaging pretty quick, but that's quite feasible to do.

    Faster building, a little less highly specialized buildings, less maintenance, another improvement or two, and there's a lot more stuff for a builder to do.

    Anyhow, I really don't want to have a long debate on this. It's a waste of both of our time when I suspect we more or less agree on things (or close enough).
     
  3. nemini

    nemini Chieftain

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    Amen to that, brother.

    Civilization has taken a huge step down from BtS, which was the last released game and should be the game you compare Vanilla Civ 5 to! Also, why did no one take a look at the various mods and incorporate some of them into Civ 5? Now the modders have to start from scratch to give us the features we came to love!
     
  4. UKScud

    UKScud Warlord

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    I totally see your point of view, but where would you go from there? No developer would ever produce a game as good as Civ4BTS straight away if there were not the possibility to add the obligatory 3 expansion packs over the course of five years...been that way since Civ3 at least.

    In an ideal world we would have our wish, but in this world, which sucks and is ruled by money, its only the modders who are going to take our favorite game forward.

    If you could control a project to develop Civ4.5 what would you get people working on first?
    I'd like to see people working on redeveloping the Civs from Civ4, and the graphics for their unique units. (I was quite surprised when I browsed through the modding subforum earlier that there is only one post in the unit graphics section. Where are you arty types?)

    What do you think?
     
  5. Red Dwarf Devil

    Red Dwarf Devil Little Green Man

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    I agree with almost all the OP's points, and being a long time fan of the series I really tried to give V a good fighting chance.

    Last game played up to turn 300 and was basically falling asleep from having next to nothing to keep me interested.

    Sorry but have now shelved it for a period until I start to hear some good news on major improvements and mods.

    Back to Civ iV, BTS with LOR mod.
     
  6. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    i like this idea lol.
     
  7. snowlyon

    snowlyon Chieftain

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    I cannot speak for others, and won't assume such a stance. What I will say is my opinion and view of the game.

    As it stands now (AI issues aside), I am disappointed that they chose to use brand title. This isn't the civilization I have spent years playing an enjoying. This isn't the "god game" I have spent countless hours completely engrossed in looking to play "just one more turn." On it's own, it is a fine wargame that has potential to be really good. As a successor to the civilization franchise I think that it failed and in many ways took the whole brand backwards.

    Civilization is more than being just a wargame. It is the concept of controlling all facets of an empire. To often I have seen people here complain about their desire to avoid "micromanaging" this or that. Thing is, in many ways that’s exactly why the civilization brand was so successful. It gave the player the ability to control everything within their empire. If what we want is a wargame then there are plenty of other titles out there that do the job well enough without having to sacrifice this brand which had found it's niche and built a nice steady following. The current incarnation of the brand, imo, goes completely against the premise of all the previous versions…and that makes me sad.

    Has the civilization brand become nothing more than a wargame now?

    A short note regarding cIV. While some may not have liked religions or corps…they were something that actually made the over all game better as they brought into the mix two very important facets of any empire/culture. Could they have been refined to work better? You bet, but just cause it didn’t work to peak effeciency doesn’t, imo, mean you scrap the whole thing…

    It was mentioned here in the OP about wanting civ 4.5…indeed, count me in as the current game while nice for a wargame has already lost my interest after playing for a week and that is not the Civilization brand I have come to love over the years.~
     
  8. deanej

    deanej Deity

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    You're completely ignoring the effects of city maintenance, which is another thing that should not have been removed. In civ3 the optimal strategy was to have lots of undeveloped cities. In civ4, building maintenance was removed and city maintenance added to encourage players to have fewer, developed cities. Civ5 went backwards in that regards.
     
  9. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    City maintenance wasn't that difficult to deal with. You're overestimating its effects. It is well-known that it was effective and good to take over an entire enemy civ in one or two turns in the modern age, if you could. This is true even on a large map where an enemy civ could be quite a lot of cities.
     
  10. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    That was because of the fact that the designers decided to give the huge empires lovers a chance and introduced a completely artificial truncation in the maintenance per city formula, that after a point actually made each city added to the empire decrease the maintenance per city compared with the previous arragement ( around 18-20 cities ), the so called "conquerors plateau" .

    Note that this was a concession to give a chance to big empires ;)
     
  11. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    Ahh, thanks for that. I don't remember all the details myself, since I haven't played Civ IV in well over a year now.

    And just to be clear to everyone else, I don't think Civ V is perfect. It has a number of problems (the biggest perhaps being that it was released in essentially a beta state). I just sometimes people get overeager to bash V and praise IV and that gets us into troublesome spots.
     
  12. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Good post. By watering down this product and making it more or less into a war game, they really are in real danger of losing the uniqueness of Civ. It just becomes another war game and not a great one at that. By losing its uniqueness, it really becomes their weakness.
     
  13. polypheus

    polypheus Prince

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    Exactly, everyone that wants to turn Civ5 into a wargame should realize that the are already plenty of wargames even ones that advance through the ages but where it is essentially still just a war game. There is no game though until Civ4 that remotely modeled the intricacies of empire building with war as only one component. Take away war from Civ5 what are you left with???

    I will say this. Regardless of whether Civ5 can be fixed, I am so glad there is Civ4:BTS with RoM/AND. Even if there is never another Civ game, at least we are left with a great one.

    IMHO Soren Johnson >> Jon Shafer
     
  14. boredatwork

    boredatwork Warlord

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    smac?
     
  15. polypheus

    polypheus Prince

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    Okay I'll give you that one.

    Except it was too sci-fi-ish for my tastes. Until Civ4, I don't know if there was a great Earth-based non-sci-fi-ish one, none that I can think of. (Civ3 was moving in that direction though but not quite there and was largely again just a war game for the most part.)
     
  16. Deep_Blue

    Deep_Blue Knight

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    Please bring CIV IV back I miss it too much :(

    If CIV V is a totally different game then please rename it to something else..

    CIV III was addictive, CIV IV was the most fun to play (and the best in the series so far).

    Hopefully CIV V next expansion will be something as IV.5 that many people wish.
     
  17. .Wolff.

    .Wolff. Chieftain

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    You know, I just joined this forum and quite frankly, I'm dissapointed in how every day I read post-apon-post of, "I want Civ4!" Quite frankly, go play your Civ4. Nobody really cares what each person wants.

    You'll have people that love Civ5 and those that will not. I personally, have never played Civ4 or anything prior to that. So, of course my opinion is good with Civ5.

    You cannot expect the game to be something different then what you bought.
    If you bought Civ5, expect Civ5 not Civ4.

    Seriously, every single time I look at the forum...There are three to four or more new posts complaining about Civ5. If you haven't noticed, they are still patching and updating Civ5.

    It just doesn't make any sense to me how someone can complain saying they want something that they didn't buy...
     
  18. Pnutmaster

    Pnutmaster Chieftain

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    Global food is indeed an awesome idea. Think of the ways Sicily and Egypt supplied Rome with grain. When Rome lost these lands, its whole empire felt hunger pangs (until new sources were arranged).

    I think there is great potential here and would look to see the idea expanded in future mods.
     
  19. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Well there is probably a few thousand players still 'discovering Civ4' who like the idea of 4.5

    I never really got into Civ4, but BTS provided enough 'fixes' to allow me to enjoy it. But I hated religion, hated the ham strung diplomacy that so many are now touting as the model Civ5 should follow.

    If you play enough game,s you'll notice in Civ5 lots of components of the AI diplomacy system working on a superior level to IV and III. No information cheats, AI wanting to scout out your border fortifications with open borders before declaring war (never sign open borders if you are threatened and not ready for way--thought its not a guarantee they won't declare on you anyways. They can still see the demo screen)

    I think the biggest issue with Civ5 is all those little brilliant code aren't gelling, because the AI leaders lack the kind of cohesive psychopath behavior of the Civ3 AI. In Civ3, you know each AI is out to win the game, so you dealt with them accordingly. In Civ5, there's no hint as to the AI attitude, and the AI DO BEHAVE strangely at times. Calling defensive wars 'blood thirsty'; Also, they generally first behave like a traditional cos-play Civ4 AI, then they switch over to Civ3 dog eat dog mode and attack. And posters come crying on the forums because it didn't say 'annoyed' or anything before they did.

    :blush:
     
  20. Conspirator

    Conspirator Prince

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    WOW. You've never played Civ 4? Mate you really need to load that up.
     

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