You should not be able to Dominate a hero.

[kumquatelvis]

Last game I was playing I managed to dominate both the Baron and the Malakim hero (the super arquebus guy). Both of those seemed rather unfair; especially the racial hero, as not everyone can build him (I am aware that the Baron does not have the hero promotion, but he's still a unique person). The hero promotion should make you immune to that spell. And perhaps the werewolf one as well; otherwise someone with dominate could steal all of the werewolf glory (and it's easy to get to Hemah, like I did).

Also, I was turning my werewolves into vampires; I have no balance problems with this, but it was making my fantasy world sense itch.

 

[Itherael]

I agree

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Over all I don't have a problem with this - though I can see why some would in Multiplayer. Hero units should have a bigger mod based on their promos or their level. As it is now the hero promo just makes it a bit harder to get them. A hero can be such a game dominating mechanic that getting a few by this spell can set you up to win rather quickly. I think the major issue here is that the AI don't use it against you ever. If they did then that would be a different ball game IMNSHO.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Also, I was turning my werewolves into vampires; I have no balance problems with this, but it was making my fantasy world sense itch.

I'm not too versed in FFH lore, but I do know in FFH vampies consume souls, not blood(though some drink blood as a hobby anyway). This indeed makes it possible to have werewolf vampires(unless werewolves also have something to do with souls, I don't know about them) or vampire undead(undead that consume the souls of their victims instead of just killing them)

 

[Caradoc]

I disagree. What would make a hero less susceptible to Domination than any other elite unit? And what would make a racial hero even more special?

 

[James009]

EDIT:
... I mistook Domination the spell for dominating in combat... my mistake

I think heroes could use a little more buffing. What if we could give the hero promotion some resistance to Domination and a greater withdrawal rate (50%)? Wouldn't that help some?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Hero already gives some spell resistance.

 

[Bill Bisco]

Heroes should be vulnerable to Domination like anybody else. If the spell Domination is a problem, then address that.

 

[TC01]

I remember reading (a while ago, before I joined) a thread that was something about how heroes should be immune to Armageddon, because they're "heroes", and don't die like that.

To which the answer was "this is dark fantasy. Heroes die all the time."

I don't really see why heroes should be immune from domination. As MC said, they already have some resistance. Maybe it should be slightly increased. But they should be vulnerable.

 

[kumquatelvis]

Some resistance is still pretty paltry, from what I've seen. Last game I took stacks of units, including two heroes, before failing and losing the promotion. And then I just leveled the Archmage and gave it back to him.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It was mathed out to be something like 90% success rate on grunts, 70% on heroes, without specific counters like the magic resistant promo considered.

 

[Tasunke]

well, back in shadow version, I dominated Yvain from a diety or immortal level AI. I think the relative levels of the two units involved have some effect, but I could be wrong. Mind I-III, Metamagic I-III, and as many crap extra promotions, combats mainly, seem to be the best bid for domination, athough I suppose your math also adds in the tower of Divination? which is alot harder to get than simply maximizing on spell promos. Also stoneskin help the dominators to live longer. and death mana enables them to avoid getting dominated themselves. The more specific the situation, the more specific the mana/promotion combination.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yvain could not be dominated in the current version, as he was changed to a Treant and thus an Elemental so that Kael could use Warhammer graphics for him. (Personally I still don't like this change, but am leaning towards making him a Satyr rather than a Woodelf again in my version. He was called "the favorite son of Cernunnos" before, and even though this was meant metaphorically I like the idea of making it literally true since we know that the first generation Satyrs were his physical children.) Only living units can be dominated, and elementals are not alive.


Iirc, the only promotion that effect the chances that the spell will be resisted are Metamagic 1-3, Combat 1-5, Potency, Hero, Valor, Magic Resistant, and Magic Immune (the last ones making units with them more resistant, the former making the spells harder to resist). I think that base strength is taken into account in deciding if the spell will be resisted, but levels are not.

It is the Tower of Alternation, not the Tower of Divination, that makes your units more resistant to spells and your enemies less likely to resist your spells. This is also a relatively recent change, so it wouldn't have worked back when Yvain was living.

 

[Tasunke]

Aye, tower of Alteratoin is the one I was thinking of. I was thinking of body magic/ the tech great sages like to pop first for some reason, just typed the wrong thing, hehe. Interesting that base strength could be calculated instead of levels. May be worth checking out.

And yea, I guess alot of the tower changes must've been after shadow, because I think the tower bonuses were in fluctuation of what they actually are.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Despite what the pedia and mouseover help may say, I'm almost positive that The Tower of Necromancy has had no effect on how many skeletons you can summon since the move from vanilla civ to BtS. The strong promotion for undead was not added until long after the effect on how many skeletons you could summon had been removed/not ported over to the BtS based spell system.

 

[Tasunke]

I wonder if newly summoned skelletons get strong from the Tower of Necromancy?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

They do. Strong is applied two places, once in a loop in def onBuildingBuilt(self, argsList): that runs when the Tower of Necromancy is completed which gives Strong to all the owner's undead units already in the game, and once in an if statement in def onUnitCreated(self, argsList): which will give any undead unit Strong as soon as it is created if its owner already owns the Tower of Master. The only way to get an Undead unit without strong while you have the tower would be to apply the undead promotion to a unit that dd not have it when it was first created.