1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

You're right to worry and it's time for you to die?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Thaitanium, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. Thaitanium

    Thaitanium Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Laksi, Bangkok
    Okay, so I have been through this messages alot and many times I DoW on them form this or I lied and DoW on them later...

    But the problem is that.... how can you tell them ... if you are going to DoW on them soon but your forces aren't yet ready....

    I mean.. I massed like 2 swrdman 1 archer next to french border but I also have more men coming to support and they are not yet in a good position to go for war (they'll die if I DoW) so I lied to Napoleon that I won't DoW on him.. a likely story blah blah.. then about 6 turns after I DoW on him xD and ppl around da world starts to hate me D:

    Any tips to avoid this crap ? there should be something like

    You're right to worry but my armies aren't yet ready.(10 turns then DoW)

    xD
     
  2. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Messages:
    7,120
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    That would destroy it IMO. It's like saying "I am going to kill you, but I don't have my gun, so wait here while I go get it" - they wouldn't do that, they would mobilise forces, move workers away etc. Either DoW or suffer a penalty.
     
  3. Ford

    Ford Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    120
    Plan ahead. Build up your army out of sight a couple of hex from the border, then the AI can't see them and won't challenge you. If it does, the lesser evil is not being prepared properly; that will resolve itself in a few turns. Backstabbing lasts a little longer.

    Being able to say 'I'm going to declare war on you in ten turns' is just...hmm, no.
    More realistic would be a third option where a possible answer could be 'I'll station my troops where I please', which would be the equivalent of an early warning for the AI but still not a guarantee that you're going to attack. But gives a small diplo-hit.
     
  4. ShadeSlider

    ShadeSlider Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Dont come too close to their borders if half of your army is still far away. Just stay 2-3 tiles away, wait for your guys and then move in with the whole force.
     
  5. NotSure

    NotSure Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Ya, the trigger is having 2 or more units right on their border. If you back up one hex, muster & fortify, the AI will never question you. An added benefit is that the AI will usually send a few units into your fortified grinder so you can trim them down a bit with range.
     
  6. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,441
    Location:
    Pakistan
    This.
     
  7. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    This used to be much worse; on the CD release, if you had a tight formation of units well within your own borders and an AI saw it it would also trigger the AI question
     
  8. pxpdoo

    pxpdoo Ninja Burger Fry Cook

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Dictionopolis
    (Crippled) Tim Robbins: "Come over here so I can stab you!"
    Jack Black: "No!" :lol:
     
  9. feniks

    feniks Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    USA
    ah ... so that's why a few nations keep denouncing me ... I kept lying to AI when I was gathering forces on border and he wondered (prepping for war or maneuvers) ... good to know, thanks for tips :)

    I'm new to civ5, playing my first game on random settings (as Persian Darius) ... I have already destroyed 2 other civs on my continent :)
     
  10. _hero_

    _hero_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    604
    Use it to your advantage. Have a big army sitting back, bring a few units to their borders, hopefully in a safe position, like with a mountain or at least some forest/hills between any enemy units. Tell them you are going to DoW when they ask and try to lure them out so you can wipe their army safely away from their cities and from any combat bonuses they might have in their territory through Social Policies or wonders.

    After that, mopping up their cities should be easy taking candy from a baby.
     
  11. NotSure

    NotSure Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Time to man-up... Turns out this is not true. I read it somewhere (the 2 or more units theory) and then I thought I confirmed in numerous games that it was true. While I believe this is still a good general rule, I discovered that the AI may call you on massed troops even if there is none on their border.

    In a game I just played, I had a lot of troops near one of my border cities, but all of them were at least two tiles away from my neighbor. The AI didn't have OB with me, so I have no idea how it knew. The only thing I did out of the ordinary was stay mustered around my city for a long time (12 or so turns) waiting for a RA to finish. Bottom line... I don't know what triggers the "I see your troops" message for sure. Sorry for the erroneous info.
     
  12. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    So it might be that the AI can see all your units regardless of fog-of-war, for the purposes of calling you out. Disappointing if true.

    Edit: also, the Foreign Advisor says something when another civ's troops are near your border, and a second thing when she thinks they're about to attack. I wonder if the AI uses the same metrics as your Advisor?
     
  13. Txurce

    Txurce Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Location:
    Venice, California
    A third situation where the AI inquires as to your intent is when you are passing through his territory with multiple units. It asks even though you couldn't possibly be attacking while in his territory. Bottom line, the AI asks if something makes it feel threatened. The surest way to get around this is to spread your units behind the border loosely enough to not draw undue attention, but closely enough to hit a target once war is declared. (Kinda like they do in RL.)

    For the OP's purposes, though, keeping units off the border will still dramatically lower the frequency of the AI's war question.

    I think this is quite likely.
     
  14. Ickey

    Ickey Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    That's hilarious! "Yes I plan to attack you but I'm not ready yet, just hang on please..." What an idea.
     
  15. General Tso

    General Tso Panzer General

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,518
    Location:
    U. S. of A.
    The diplomatic penalty for saying that you are just passing thru, then attacking anyway, should be reduced.
     
  16. Txurce

    Txurce Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Location:
    Venice, California
    I disagree - it's a major infraction, and avoidable enough with careful placement of units. What should be reduced is the length of time that you have to wait to attack after replying in the negative, and not take a diplo hit.
     
  17. krc

    krc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    889
    Is there a "length of time" (short of infinity) after which the diplo hit goes away?
     
  18. Txurce

    Txurce Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,972
    Location:
    Venice, California
    I think so - meaning I've played in games where I've eventually attacked and not taken the hit. But it's definitely longer than 10 turns, and may be longer than 20. (I don't remember.) I also don't know if the time is based on your honoring your answer, or on honoring it plus moving out of range.
     
  19. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    What stinks is when the AI drops a city near your units then whines about said units.

    Same for one of their units passing through *your* territory and then complaining.

    Just had the same thing as OP though about 10 turns till DoW. 4 other civs wanted war with monty, few turns to go and the psychotic popped that message up. I chose war.
    Pounded him and his cities (infantry and arty vs pikes)

    Left him with 1 city, took the peace, then a few turns later, Isabella pops up saying it's time.
    ?? So I did the war again and did nothing. Later Monty asked for peace again took it.

    That group of 4 is very friendly with me. So no hits at all for the extra DoW it seems.

    Would be nice to know how long the diplo penalty for lying is. (I just hate letting the AI have the first shot)
     
  20. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,704

    Why isn't this in the civiliopedia or is it schown in the diplomacy option How should new players know that there is a penalty bad game desing in my opinion :eek:
     

Share This Page