1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Zero difference in corruption from Monarchy to Democracy

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by wingedone, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. wingedone

    wingedone Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    I don't know if anyone is still here. :lol:

    But, just in case:

    I switched from Monarchy to Democracy. My cities a ways away from my cap were mired in corruption.

    For example, under Monarchy, New Brandenburg. 15 production, only 2 usable. 16 commerce, only 3 usable.

    After Democracy, exactly the same.

    It says minimal corruption under Democracy. I let it run a few turns (after returning from Anarchy) and no change.

    Shouldn't there be a change?
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13,701
    Location:
    Oviedo, Fl
    If you are far away form the capitol you will have lots of corruption in either govs. Communism may lower, I can't recall. Over all communism is spreading the corruption, so even closer towns will get some.

    To I do not worry about corruption. Just need the core to be strong and the rest can farm beakers. Never used demo in c3c, only vanilla and ptw.
     
  3. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    DFW, Texas USA
    How many cities do you have (especially closer to the capital than the city in question), what size map are you playing on, and do you have a Forbidden Palace?

    On a standard map size, the optimal city number (OCN) is 10. After the 10th city (by distance rank), corruption increases dramatically. Building a Forbidden Palace increases the OCN to 20 cities.

    The FP behaves somewhat differently in C3C compared to PTW and vanilla. In C3C city distance rank is from the capital only. In the other two the FP acts as a second capital for rank purposes, so that could affect which cities are the top 20 rank-by-distance cities.

    So in short, I'm guessing the city in question is beyond the OCN'th rank, and that's why Democracy didn't make a notable difference.

    I don't think you can fix the commerce corruption (possible exception for policemen specialists, but I haven't used them, and then there's Communism which diminishes your core cities), but you might be able to help shield waste by getting the city into WLTK day. Usually those types of cities are most productive as specialist farms though.
     
  4. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,249
    Location:
    Columbus
    The difference in corruption between government types (other than Communism) is fairly modest. Despotism -> Republic can be noticeable at times, but I'd never change governments for the corruption changes (except occasionally Monarchy-> Communism). Courthouses have a much larger effect on corruption. While non-Communist governments will have little effect on useless cities, courthouses can make them halfway decent. My guess is you'd get 4-6 or so production usable in New Brandenburg. Not great, but a better improvement than switching governments.

    Specialist farms is the typical recommendation for such cities. I actually usually don't care enough about them for that, but if there's a hint of productivity (2/3 production instead of just 1), I might make them halfway useful with a courthouse. Communism makes corruption near-equal across your empire. Whether that's good depends. If you have few courthouses, switching to Communism will make your core less useful, not help your outer cities that much, and you'll likely see a decrease in both your production and your commerce, relative to Monarchy (and an even steeper decrease in commerce relative to Democracy/Republic). With sufficient courthouses and a large enough empire, Communism can be beneficial versus Monarchy in production and commerce, as well as military support. But it's very situational - Communism at its best means a lot of good cities instead of a fair number of great ones plus a lot of poor ones, with higher production than any other government, and probably higher commerce (than Monarchy, probably not Republic), but higher maintenance costs. Ironically, Smith's Trading Company can help a lot to offset the maintenance in Communism. At its worst, Communism means all of a sudden none of your cities can produce anything in a reasonable amount of time and your science funding is way lower because your cities with libraries and universities now have more corruption.

    I'd be curious if anyone has more specific info on how much of an effect (percent-wise, for example) the various governments have on corruption. Specifically, what the difference between Rampant/Nuisance/Problematic/Minimal is.
     
  5. wingedone

    wingedone Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Excellent input, I appreciate it.

    I was going by the description in the game and expected all cities to be better under democracy. Learning.

    The other day, I did some testing. I had moved my palace (long time process) from Berlin to Konigsburg, as Kon was more centralized. I thought that might help. Not sure it did much.

    But then I tested Berlin under each form of govt. that I had access too. Numbers in total units (non corrupted units).

    Monarchy--Republic--Democracy--Communism

    Prod 34(28)--34(25)--34(25)--34(23)
    Comm 45(38)--67(57)--67(57)--42(33)

    Also looked nationwide. Unfortunately I could find no summary of production and I didn't feel like counting all 60 or 70 cities.

    Corruption 610--988--927--675
    Unit cost 0--237--237--0
    Inc from cities 2187--3828--3558--2332


    Summary: Production drops in Republic and Democracy concern me, but I don't know the total effect.
    Net increase in income from Republic and Democracy are very nice, while your not at war (war weariness).

    This was my first full game. I never got out of Monarchy. I won a cultural victory by 1838 under Warlord by being on a large continent with only the Russians as direct adversaries (eliminated them from the continent in a long war. Learned to not attack when their Cossacks are kings of the battlefield, and always cover your Cavalry with Infantry for defense). I got lucky and got a general at the other end of the continent. Used him to create a Forbidden Palace near Moscow and wow, nice production at the other end too.

    Looks like Republic is good for expanding. I will go for that earlier next time, maybe switch back to Monarchy when I go to war.

    Thanks again for the input.
     
  6. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    DFW, Texas USA
    I manage my empire very differently in Republic than in Despo or Monarchy.

    In Despo and Monarchy I rely on free unit support and military police to keep citizens happy. Ancient (useless) units stick around in core cities because they're free and help with happiness.

    In Republic they don't help happiness, and now they're costing 2gpt each if I'm over the support limit, which I always am. So a switch to Republic usually includes disbanding old units, and if my empire is big and strong enough the interior cities will be left without a garrison to save money. (But I have to leave fast responders in key places to deal with sea landings, and I have to be aware if Conquistadors or other fast units might be present.)

    War weariness can be managed and/or tolerated. Remember that WW is specific to each opponent. I can attack one enemy, try to keep the war to 20 turns or less with a particular objective in mind (get a resource or chokepoint or just beat them down a bit), and then I can make peace and attack my other neighbor who my people aren't weary with yet. In 20 turns the WW from the first opponent is gone and I can continue to alternate wars in Republic with some planning.

    But there is nothing wrong with staying in Monarchy, producing units and continually being an ass to your neighbors.

    The drop in raw production was not due to corruption. Either you or the governor changed citizen assignments based on the new economy, and one of you found a need for a clown or perhaps just a different tile with less production. I'm guessing clown. Another thing I do in Republic is use the luxury slider unabashedly. I want my core city citizens producing, not clowning.
     
  7. Theov

    Theov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,123
    Location:
    Taiwan
    I upgrade them with the newly found moneys and throw them at an opponent. They hurt the opponent - I maybe get some more cities (more unit support) or luxuries (happy people). Trying to get something out of them is better than disbanding them.
     

Share This Page