Zulu Discussion

[ferretbacon]

Nice reference, but not exactly . I doubt it will actually do double damage, the initial ranged attack will probably do less damage than the secondary melee. Am I correct in thinking that they will both have to be against the same unit? As opposed to the chu-ko-nu's double shot ability.

I'm not real clear on the Impi:

- Do you choose either to melee or range attack, but not both on the same turn?

- Do you get both, but it must be directed at a single unit?

- Do you have the option to not follow through with a melee charge? (if, for instance, the damage would be too great)

If the first, it would merely allow an Impi formation to have ultimate flexibility; even those behind the front line could contribute to the attack.

If the second, I'm not sure how this is fair; you get two attacks, and one of them is free? (free in the sense that you don't take damage)

If the third (which would entail the second as well)... well, that would be broken. You'd be able to ranged attack behind other Impi and the front line would be able to essentially attack twice, but also hold off on the damaging melee attack if it wasn't to your advantage.

 

[JSMCAG]

It might be possible they have a special promotion like the maori warrior or the winged hussar, where, when attacking, the defending unit will receive some damage before the attack.

In other words, you attack just like a normal melee unit, but, say, the defender had 100HP.
Then you would deal, say, 15HP just before the attack and, therefore, you would melee a 85HP unit.

 

[ferretbacon]

It might be possible they have a special promotion like the maori warrior or the winged hussar, where, when attacking, the defending unit will receive some damage before the attack.

In other words, you attack just like a normal melee unit, but, say, the defender had 100HP.
Then you would deal, say, 15HP just before the attack and, therefore, you would melee a 85HP unit.

Ok. That seems to make sense. Useful against everyone except Japan.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Its pretty hard to justify the Zulu's UA. It seems very, very powerful indeed, but I'll attempt to.
Half maintenance on melee units? Ok maintenance doesn't tend to be that big of an issue anyway, and its only for the melee units, not ranged, or cavalry. On the other hand, its already double the German -25% maintenance UA, but that will probably be changed.
As for the bonus xp, I originally read it as they get +25 xp for all units (on creation). Which would be very OP, like having a barracks and armory in every city. But I now see that its +25% xp for every kill. I mean, that's not too powerful, its basically like a free level every 4 levels. And if a unit gets killed before it can gain enough xp, the ability wont be worth much.

The UB bonus vs gunpowder is actually very fitting historically, seeing as the Zulus beat off the British, who had rifles, with spears. Bonus to flanking is also good only when you have more than one unit attacking a single enemy unit, similar to how the impi attacked simultaneously to overrun the British troops.

Although I do agree that the Zulus seem to be having their cake and eating it too. Being able to have a big army would be fine, and being able to have experienced units would be fine too. But BOTH? kinda stretching it, dont'cha think? (Not to mention their UB compounding the effect )

TBH I think we wont know if their too tough until we actually play the game.

Perhaps their UB doesn't provide XP upon creation? Maybe it's only the bonus vs gunpowder and/or flanking bonus that is given to the units created in the city.

 

[JSMCAG]

Ok. That seems to make sense. Useful against everyone except Japan.

The unstoppable force meets the immovable object!!
There's still a slight benefit if the Japanese unit is very low HP, then the pre-attack will just kill them off, with no damage done to your unit!

 

[Fummy]

I'm not real clear on the Impi:

- Do you choose either to melee or range attack, but not both on the same turn?

- Do you get both, but it must be directed at a single unit?

- Do you have the option to not follow through with a melee charge? (if, for instance, the damage would be too great).

The exact wording is "[Impi warriors] strike twice when attacking: first at range, then at melee" Implying the 2 attacks happen in succession. So option #2, the ranged and melee have to both be done.

I think the first ranged attack is just to soften the enemy up a bit before the main attack, giving the Impi an advantage in strength (not against the japanese though.)

 

[Matthew.]

Sounds like the idea is to ensure that a full-health Impi will always be fighting an injured target. Probably not double damage, but just split so that the Impi's target deals less damage when the melee part hits (injured targets do less damage).

In a round-about way it is essentially "Impi's take less damage from melee combat" although in a more interesting way than a boring promotion or something that would give the same results.

I don't think they will be too powerful overall. I mean melee in general is weak in this game and work better as fortified obstacles than any kind of offensive force. Zulu's bonuses just help so that Impi are just as effective offense as something like crossbow spam.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Can't wait to play as this civ!! I doubt they will be OP since the focus on the new expansion is trade and tourism. I would venture to guess that they need the -50% maintence UA due to the difficulty making money for a "non-trading-focused" civ. But, hey, who knows... Oh, and by the way...

The exact wording is "[Impi warriors] strike twice when attacking: first at range, then at melee" Implying the 2 attacks happen in succession. So option #2, the ranged and melee have to both be done.

I think the first ranged attack is just to soften the enemy up a bit before the main attack, giving the Impi an advantage in strength (not against the japanese though.)

Not trying to hijack this thread but...

That would be an excellent UA to add to the Roman Legion, considering that is exactly how they fought, too.

 

[Halcyan2]

I'm looking forward to trying him out.

I hope this means Germany is getting a UA renovation. Shaka's UA certainly suggests that there might be merit for one, and I think Germany could use one anyway.

I think it's likely that Germany is changed, but it doesn't have to.

The Zulu UA -50% only works on melee units (not ranged, siege, mounted) whereas Germany's -25% does work on ALL land units.

Plus, most people seem to play Germany for the barbarian conversion ability not for the maintenance reduction.

 

[bonafide11]

It might be possible they have a special promotion like the maori warrior or the winged hussar, where, when attacking, the defending unit will receive some damage before the attack.

In other words, you attack just like a normal melee unit, but, say, the defender had 100HP.
Then you would deal, say, 15HP just before the attack and, therefore, you would melee a 85HP unit.

That's how I take it as. It's basically just giving the Impis a stronger attack in a clever way. Useful and powerful, but not game breaking. Taken together with the other Zulu bonuses though, it can make for some nice early-mid game conquests.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Impi substituting a medieval pikeman army? It doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[The QC]

People complaining about the maintenance reduction should remember that melee units are the weakest of the game. An army based on them would suffer constant losses.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Impi substituting a medieval pikeman army? It doesn't seem reasonable.

They used Iron instead of Bronze. Why wouldn't a Pike make sense?

 

[Beefie]

I wonder if the range attack is also on defence as well?

 

[bonafide11]

People complaining about the maintenance reduction should remember that melee units are the weakest of the game. An army based on them would suffer constant losses.

And by late game, the Zulu have little bonuses that remain effective. For the Zulu to have advantages late game, they'll need to protect some elite troops that will have more experience than others. That's hardly game breaking. I don't believe the Zulu are as overly powerful as some people here are complaining.

 

[bonafide11]

I wonder if the range attack is also on defence as well?

Unique Unit (Impi): Replaces pikeman, strike twice when attacking: first at range, then at melee.

Nope.

 

[Beefie]

Unique Unit (Impi): Replaces pikeman, strike twice when attacking: first at range, then at melee.

Nope.

Thought so, would make the most sense. I need to read things more carefully!

 

[Geppenguin]

Actually if you think about it, their UA isn't that OP. Melee units refers only to units that are pre-gunpowder, i.e. from musketman onwards, they lose the 50% maintenance advantage.

 

[altayrneto]

I suspect Germany will be modified to account for this. Especially with the overhaul of France, it shows nothing is off limits.

ETA: I just wish Songhai were as well.

If Germany be modified, we can think in a Holy Rome civ... But I'm hopeless.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Does the UA mean that all units will start with an extra 25% of XP, or that they will generate XP 25% faster? I assume it's the former because of the wording...