ZWK 2.2 Patch Released

kobayashi

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So it is finally over and I can get on with life. Honestly I never expected to go beyond 2.0 let alone 2.2. Thanks to Marko for pointing out some less known AI unit slot conflicts. Thanks also to Alcibiates, Morten, Tracid00 and other test players from here.

for new commers, this is where it all began

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1295

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1302

In any case, this is probably just a formality as the community here is quite small nowadays and anyone interested would have already played one version or other by now. Also there seems to be many new quality WW2 scenarios released recently. So without much ado, I present to you the final update...
 
And here are the changes....

you will need to have installed version 2.1 first (version with black borders)


Starting Position Changes

1. Two more Wellingtons given to Allies at the start.

2. All AA guns the British have at the start are given veteran status.

3. Dover and London start with a Repair Depot each. Added AA Network to Dover, London, Essen, Berlin and Ploesti. Yarmouth starts with a Cinema.

4. Moscow starts with City Fortifications, Repair Depot and AA Network.

5. Moved some Allied capital ships starting positions so the AI does not inadvertently stack its capital ships.

6. Moved some of the U-boats starting positions so AI will use them better.

7. Caen changed to Cherbourg and a road linking it to Paris has been added.

8. A road has been added from Kovno to Vilna to Minsk so Leningrad can be bypassed.

9. French have many more infantry at the beginning.


Unit Changes

1. Gloster Meteor role changed back to Air Superiority and P-38 Lightning obsolete with P-51 Mustang so the Allies AI will build more bombers.

2. Made Maginot Line forts slightly weaker, Axis AI has a meanigful chance of breaking through.

3. Changed the graphics of Matilda II, Churchill, Sherman, KV-1, Sturmovik and BT-7 to sharper versions.

4. Changed the graphics of AA Gun and AT Gun to be in scale with the tanks.

5. Replaced Escourt Carriers with Liberty Ship (a shorter version of the same from Case's Cruel Sea).

6. P-51's movment increased from 7 to 8.

7. Carrier move increased to 3 and attack reduced to 0.


Events Changes

1. The redundant He-178 message is removed and replaced with Matilda II Africa message. Allies will receive a Matilda tank in Africa when they discover Matilda II. This Increases the chance of that Allies AI get the Blitzkrieg Shock tech. Any power and not just the Axis destroying a Matilda II will give the Blitzkrieg Shock tech to the Allies.

2. Added 'Pact of Steel Broken' message. Moved Axis units away from the Balkans to delay Axis hostilities with the Minor Axis.

3. Allies loose 100 gold for each merchant cargo sunk by the Axis.

4. The trigger to give the Soviets the T-34/76 tech ahead of time has been changed to something more complicated.

5. Secondary target of Stalingrad added. Soviet's Massive Population Wonder will expire if the lose this city.


Other Changes

1. Removed civpedia reference to increasing spaceship thrust.

2. Increased operating cost of Godowns to 2 so they will not be free for Allies to slow down their research rate slightly at the beginning.

3. Doubled cost of building AA Network.

4. When loading or saving a game, the screen title will now refer to the difficulty in terms of scenario difficulty levels (like General, not King).

5. Women's Role can only be researched by the Allies - since nobody else gets unhappiness from troops deployed away from home. Added the U.S.O. as another wonder which can be built when you discover Women's Role.

 

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Kobayashi you changed the carrier attack to 0 alot of US carriers had surface guns up to 14inch during the war:rolleyes:
 
The largest guns ever carried on any US carrier are 8in, on both Lexington and Saratoga.

Lex was sunk, and Sara had them removed and replaced with 5in AA guns in 1942.
 
Maybe 14inch guns were to big:crazyeyes .But I remember see pic of carriers with several batterys of guns , but Im sure they were large enough to have some firepower
 
The Japanese had some hybrid battleship-carriers which mounted heavy guns at the front, and a flight deck at the back.

However AoA is correct, and US carriers never mounted anything bigger then 8 inches, and protection against surface ships was provided by the carriers air wing, and escort group.
 
Technically speaking, the two Ise class hybrid ships were a total fiasco. They never received their airwings because of shortages and the idea of operating only sea planes was a crazy idea. It also wrecked two perfectly functional battleships for no reason. Both ended up being decoy ships at Leyte Gulf and were sunk in air raids without much ado.
 
Been playing the patch as the allies again, it's great fun, now that I found a way to rid the allies of the senate and their interference in my war! :D
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Been playing the patch as the allies again, it's great fun, now that I found a way to rid the allies of the senate and their interference in my war! :D

Which is maybe?

Contacting your 'allies' so they force you to declare war on the italians

Demanding money from your 'allies' unitl they hate you
 
Hi Koby,

Now feeling better I will post my turn in the pbem games shortly. :)

I haven't played with the latest patch yet, but I just recently halfway completed the previous version, with two players as Allies and Axis. We reached week 136, and it ended with the Axis invading Yarmouth and taking London two turns after that. They had 8 Pz6, covered by a longdistance fighter and AA guns, and was virtually unbeatable.

First, it was an extremely exciting game, with lots of intriguing, really interesting strategies and change of pace etc. Most of the time the allies led the way economically and scientifically, but got involved too late on the continent to stop german invasion schemes. :D The allies was pretty successful, however, in France, deploying an unusual strategy of reaching Italy through southern France, with a perfect line from London to Genoa and Northern Italy. The Axis bit the bullet against the russians, but managed to secure Leningrad and Scandinavia, but not much of the balkans until late in the game. In Africa, the italians beat the allies in the first round, but as technology and ressources improved, the allies slowly beated the minor axis from the continent. :D

Well, this scenario has got to be one of the most thrilling games I've played -much akin to the excitement of the Axis&Allies board game.

I just wanted to comment on the 'fighter-cover' concept that you employ in ZWK, which has good aspects, but also some aspects thats bears on the unreasonable. It seems like you've done everything you can to make everything in the game be reasonable and historically justifiable in one way or another. And the 'fighter' cover concept (where fighters protect more vulnerable units beneath) leads to unusual unit combinations, where virtually every unit is important. But, and this is the unreasonable part : Is it really reasonable, that one single lousy fighter squadron can protect 8 divisions of Pz6's from the wrath of 6 strong lancaster bombers, which is basically the only offensive weapon available against these beasts, at this point in the game? (at least when dealing with a surprise invasion, in which lots of armor cannot be gathered etc)

Since only fighters can engage fighters, but repeatedly find, that what they're actually engaging, is not the fighters, but usually an AAgun, capital ship, massive divisions of armor with good defences, such a combination is virtually unbeatable, since no fighters exists to take on such a combination. (as far as I know)

It'd be perfectly reasonable that fighters needed to fight it out with the fighters before bombing can start. But when fighters cannot be removed by fighters, because the fighters engage everything mightily stacked underneath, fighters get too strong for their own good, and even if you have tons of bombers, you're pretty much powerless. It seems unreasonable that there's no units on the tech tree to remedy this. All the fighters the allies get along the way are no good for this problem. And when they cannot beat this, why research the fighter techs? :eek:

I bet the answer will be, yes, but bombers were never meant as a defensive weapon etc. But the fighters you get are simply not strong enough for the defence. So now what do you do?

In a way, it works ok. The game needs to have an end. And this really helps to make it pretty decisive. And there are other things to consider, productive, economic, blockades, preventing the enemy from gathering enough ressources together for this kind of enterprise, stop the problem before it gets there etc. But in another way, war is pretty much about dealing with problems when they're there, so there ought to be a solution. (which of course, might be submission to Hitler-germany... :eek: )

I'd just like to hear if you thought about this, and if it is intentional all the way. What did you consider about this?
 
Originally posted by kobayashi
Which is maybe?
Contacting your 'allies' so they force you to declare war on the italians
Demanding money from your 'allies' unitl they hate you
I thoght you knew, but no matter.

When the senate forces a peace treaty on you, move units up to that tribe's city.

They will demand you leave, and in permanent peace, a screen asks you if you would like to "renouce this worthless" treaty.

Say yes, your gov falls, republic is finished, and just select facism when it asks what gov you want!

No more senate headaches after that. ;)
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I thoght you knew, but no matter.

When the senate forces a peace treaty on you, move units up to that tribe's city.

They will demand you leave, and in permanent peace, a screen asks you if you would like to "renouce this worthless" treaty.

Say yes, your gov falls, republic is finished, and just select facism when it asks what gov you want!

No more senate headaches after that. ;)

I thought I had matched the prerequsites tech slot for each government to the innate tech of each power. Hence, when the republic falls, you have no choice but to become a republic again (or monarchy/despotism, both of which are worse). Seems I was wrong. What choices did you have when you choose a new government?

Looks like Churchill is going to declare himself a Fuhrer in our PBEM game. he he
 
Well, the choices were despot, republic, and Facism.

I had German techs, from Pz II up that tract, but not "axis" or any german plane techs, and I did this late in the tech tree.
 
Originally posted by Morten Blaabjerg
Since only fighters can engage fighters, but repeatedly find, that what they're actually engaging, is not the fighters, but usually an AAgun, capital ship, massive divisions of armor with good defences, such a combination is virtually unbeatable, since no fighters exists to take on such a combination. (as far as I know)

I'd just like to hear if you thought about this, and if it is intentional all the way. What did you consider about this?

No comments, eh?
 
Morten, Sorry about that, I jumped to the last post and didn't realise you had a real long post inbetween. Any way you said..

Is it really reasonable, that one single lousy fighter squadron can protect 8 divisions of Pz6's from the wrath of 6 strong lancaster bombers, which is basically the only offensive weapon available against these beasts, at this point in the game? (at least when dealing with a surprise invasion, in which lots of armor cannot be gathered etc)


You've said mostly everything. This is one of the things we discovered in the early test games and it was decided to allow battleships to kill fighters to get rid of the invincible battleship problem. Nobody thought of the 'invincible tank' as a problem - more like a tactical element that allows the game to move past stalemates.

Of course stacking 8 tigers is really an extreme case. If there was just the one or two you could kill it will a few veteran AA guns. I can only add that If I was defending, I'd block with my own fighter/tanks combo first and then try to make the enemy fighter(s) run out of fuel. The battle for air superiority is not over a single tile but over regions of airspace. Then of course I am aware that this could happen and that's why I have been willing to sacrifice ships to maintain control of the sea. Battleships could have blasted the tigers to smitherines either at sea or during the turn they landed.

As for the unrealistic part - I'm guilty as charged. My defense is that it can't be helped. It is natural for humans to explore and exploit any limitations in the game and it is impossible to cover every aspect. There are many other of these situations that are unrealistic. - like transporting 8 divisions of 60 ton tiger tanks across the channel in itself is highly unprobable. Or a veteran king tiger fortified on a mountain tile would probably need a nuke to kill it.
 
OK. Had I had more ships at the time, he couldn't have done it. But it was late in the game and I was getting lazy... I learned the lesson.

A simple solution could actually have been blockading the way with all my fighters, because they vastly outnumbered his. Instead I made the stupid mistake to take them into London, to gather enough units to protect against the panzers. -where they could subsequently be easily destroyed... hm!

Btw, it was quite a dramatic ending, even if I lost this way. I think my friend was getting really nervous that I should find out about this invasion, when I began flying lancasters around deep inside his territory and destroying the occasional ship or panzer at random... What a terrifying thing in a mp game. Such display of power made him really feel I was lightyears ahead of him.

Amazingly, I didn't discover his invasion fleet before they suddenly landed... Then all of a sudden I was the one being nervous. And I ended up making irrational, panicky decisions. :eek: -Which might probably be quite "realistic" after all.

What is really interesting in this scenario played as a live mp game, is the terrifying psychological impact of certain units or incidents. -there's something of it in our pbem too, but in a mp game it really gets on your nerves.
 
I remember distinctly there was this game when Alcib would mass produce ME109s and then kamikazi them against my battleship with air cover. Even back then we were already stacking our fighters with all kinds of units. The Kami tactic very effective when you need to sink that one crucial ship and have no surface combatants of your own nearby. I can't remember exactly but I think it took roughly nine fighters.
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Well, the choices were despot, republic, and Facism.

I had German techs, from Pz II up that tract, but not "axis" or any german plane techs, and I did this late in the tech tree.

OK I remember now. Originally Axis=Communism but later I wanted to give the Axis the extra happiness that comes with electronics so I swapped them (Naval Tech=Communism now). As government switching was banned, I didn't see any reason not to at the time. Too late to do anything about it now.

Does you research rate drop a lot when you become facist?
 
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