zyxy01: Russian Polar Expedition

[McLMan]

@Tone & zyxy

I thought the intact rep was a surprise because of the issues from posts #98 through #106 when we re-declared war on England before the peace treaty was up. You guys were out of town at that time. Now I'm really confused that our rep is intact (or was it ever gone?)and hope that someone can explain this to me.

@Smart: Very nice trick for getting China to declare. I'll have to remember that one.

 

[Smart]

On x-post with McLMan:
I don't know why rep hit was gone, but at that time, when we declare on England, we couldn't trade gpt. You may track saves and check, when ability to make gpt deals was restored

 

[Tone]

Just so that you are aware that I have not forgotten...

I was intending to play last night but in the end I couldn't find the time. I should be able to find some time tonight though (Weds). I haven't played any civ since Sun pm so I'll probably start twitching soon.

 

[tupaclives]

Hey just popping in briefly.
I am away until the 22nd now as my parents thought an extra four days of nothing would be fun sorry I didnt post here that I would be away.

No idea wats going on with our rep now... I have no clue at all as we definately could not make gpt deals on my last turnset. That has to be a bug but in this case its worked in our favour!
The only thing I can think of is that we made peace with england and going to war with them broke our rep... nope I got no ideas
I'll try and keep up with whats going on until I get back, but it'll be patchy at best.

 

[tupaclives]

Things look in excellent shape, nice work with the trades, I love good trades. Whats the game plan for the immediate future? Japan next? Are we going to stop now that they r in the MA and upgrade our forces, or keep pushing with what we have and send better reinforcements as they become available?

 

[Tone]

Whats the game plan for the immediate future? Japan next? Are we going to stop now that they r in the MA and upgrade our forces, or keep pushing with what we have and send better reinforcements as they become available?

I was going to do the trades mentioned and incite them to declare on turn 0 so that I can cut the iron before Sams appear. Then just play a holding game until our markets are built. Trouble is finding the time to play at the moment.

 

[Smart]

to declare on turn 0

We are currently trading luxes with Japan, it will trash our rep

-- Edit --
Didn't read last post well... Sure, let them to declare war

 

[zyxy]

I was going to do the trades mentioned and incite them to declare on turn 0 so that I can cut the iron before Sams appear. Then just play a holding game until our markets are built. Trouble is finding the time to play at the moment.

Tone,

Could you please try to play soon, or ask for a skip or swap? I would like to keep this game moving .

Your plan sounds good to me.

 

[Tone]

450AD (0)
It a risk but I listen to my own posts and decide to get Japan to declare on us.

Trade with Japan: 33gpt plus two luxes for Chivalry. They are still annoyed.
Trade with Rome: Give Chivalry for Engineering, WM, 30gpt and 27gp. They still have more gpt in reserve.
Establish embassy with Rome for 61g

Demand cash from Egypt-they decline so I declare war on them and then get Rome in an alliance for 15gpt-quite expensive but I think that it should hold back Rome and Egypts progress for a while.
(Japan and Persia are the tech leaders with Theo and Invention)

I demand Invention three times and the Japenese turn Furious. I then tell them to leave or declare and they declare war.



We've lost a lux deal so I up the slider to 20%.

I attack both horses in China and both withdraw. One I cannot attack a second time and so I have to withdraw two mountain slaves. Land 2 swords on the Japanese iron hill.

Being cautious and worried about our early weakness due to market production, I also sign an alliance with Persia against the Japanese for 25gpt.


IBT
SORRY I didn't think about the settler galley-we lose them to a Japanese attack.
Moscow: Market>Knight

460 (1)
Pillage iron.
We get a Great Leader. I save him for a Palace Jump.


IBT
Japanese L-Bow kills one of our two swords on their iron

470 (2)
I kill the L-Bow, land some reinforcements and then notice that they've lost their iron-it's depleted!!!!! Otherwise just holding battles.

IBT
Smolensk: Market>knight
Sevastapol: settler>settler

480 (3)
zzz

IBT
Kiev: Market>Knight

490 (4)
zzz-we are too weak to take on fortified pikes at the moment.

IBT
Canterbury: Market>Pike

500 (5)
zzz

So we did well out of the deals (IMO) but I'm sitting on a GL not knowing where to jump the Palace to and waiting for some knights to take the battle to Japan. Swords vs pikes does not appeal.

Maybe we should build an army or rush a wonder instead.

Japan are weak and lack iron. They can build longbows though which makes it difficult to approach their cities.

I'm happy to continue but I've had it long enough and I'm not sure how best to proceed. I didn't realise how tough the week would be so I attach the save to pass on to the next player. Save.

 

[nerovats]

Why hold a leader for palace jump? I suggest to turn it into an army and keep that small enough to ship it to egypt/rome as we need armies there. If Japan is weak we should not need armies here.

McLman up?

 

[Smart]

We can move capital using "Free palace jump" - abandon capital, and palace will be moved to the best city. I'm not sure about all criteria, but palace was usually moved to the city with highest population. So we must join many workers to the city on other continent, and then abandon capital.

If we have Chivlary I'd say to put one Knight into the army for extra movement point, and transport it to the most powerfull island with 2 more knights to fill the army. Then pillage it.
Btw, I don't know what is difference with pillaging in vanilla and C3C (I'm usually playing ), and maybe it will not work well in . If we will use this army for attack, lets go to to Rome island, and attack Egypt in alliance with Rome.

 

[Tone]

I'm happy to use it in an army but we only have galleys so if we want to move it we can only load one unit. In vanilla this defeats the object of having an army as they do not get the various bonuses that are given in C3C, such as free pillaging and the extra MP. Additionally a wounded army takes longer to heal than separate units. AFAICS we either load it with 2 units and wait for caravels to move it off the island or use the GL to rush something else, such as Leos if we can get Invention soon. An army with one unit is next to useless in vanilla IIRC and thus is a waste of a GL so if we take the army, we put up with it being fixed to one island for a while.

If we were still considering the free palace jump why did we just waste 200 shields on an aqueduct and a market? I certainly talked earlier about jumping the palace but I assumed that this had been shelved due to the infrastructure being built subsequently. Losing a city with this much infrastructure is not making best use of the 'free' palace jump.

The reason why I am tempted to use a GL for our palace jump is that we can do it that turn rather than having to starve the foreign citizens and get sufficient troops to the location whilst hoping that our pathetic culture does not mean we lose the city in a flip but I'm happy to wait for another one. The only place in the southern hemisphere I can see at the moment that I'd want our palace is in Persia. We might benefit with a temporary jump to China/Japan as two cores is almost always more beneficial than one in vanilla although I haven't checked this out with CivAssistII in our game yet.

BTW the criteria for Palace Jump involves number of citizens (our ones being more valuable than foreign ones), the number of towns/cities/metros close by (cannot remember exactly how close they need to be) and the number of units in the town garrison. It is possible to use CivAssistII to determine how many points each town has in order to take the worry out of jumping to the 'wrong' place.

 

[zyxy]

Nicely played Tone! 2 techs for free and some gold as bonus . Good decisions on the alliances.

I'm not looking at the save right now, but if Japan has no iron, then their supply of pikes might be limited. So once we get some knights, we can start making a dent with knights and cats. Perhaps begin at the southwest end of Japan, their main force is probably up north.

Best lands for the palace core are in Egypt or second choice Persia IMO, but that's too far in the future to hold the GL. Japanese continent doesn't look very promising, all tundra and mountains. Is there a useful wonder available ? ST maybe? Otherwise army is ok, if only for the Epic.

This is Vanilla, so armies don't get a movement or other bonus. Main purpose of armies is to enable Epic, and to protect a stack AI will not attack.

McLMan - up
nero - deck

 

[Smart]

An army with one unit is next to useless in vanilla

I said, that we could transport it with one unit, and then load two extra knights on it

 

[Tone]

@Smart: I know, but that point was not aimed at you (although the bit about the bonus was); just the general discussion on the validity of an army in that if we decide to make one, we really need to consider it based on the target island for the long term.

I don't think that transporting a pillaging army is on the cards at the moment. We've just built plenty of markets and so our military is pretty feeble, which is why I was fighting a defensive war against the Japanese. I think that we should load two knights up (when we finally get them ) and use it against the Japanese. We can't get transport to the North at the moment without ship-hopping, Persia is our ally and the other two are so weak we could take them out at our leisure so we can really only use it against Japan. It will help protect against Longbows and might just enable us to take out their main towns before they get muskets. (if we are very lucky!)

Wonders? Sun Tzu is available but it's not going to be that powerful on a map like this IMO. We're not playing the type of game that would benefit from Sistine. I think the others have gone but it might be worth checking. Nothing appealled to me yesterday though. Now we could buy Invention and then rush Leo's of course...

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Are you deliberately testing my patience?

I was about to go look for the palace jump formula but indeed, CA2 is way faster. Good move on the alliances, keep it up boys. I'm glad my clumsiness is out of your way, you guys can definitely make it. Stay sharp and focused, the rest will follow. And if I may, I'd opt for Leo's, considering all the swords and horses who just wish they had better armor and maces.

 

[zyxy]

I only mentioned ST because there's little else to do witha leader at this stage. Leo's is not too bad I think, depending on how many horses we have running around (no maces in Vanilla!). But buying Invention might be costly, and I would only do that if we can get some value out of it, i.e., sell it on for a good price. Alternatively we can (temporarily) move the palace to Sverdlovsk, or to Osaka or Kyoto, once we take them. Don't know if that would really be an advantage though. In the end, an army may be best. At least we can then build the Epic for higher leader chances in the future, and we can protect one stack in Japanland against longbows.

 

[Smart]

McLMan?
Nerovats, to keep it going, you can take the save. No answer from McLMan after four days from last turnset :shakehead

 

[zyxy]

McLMan?
Nerovats, to keep it going, you can take the save. No answer from McLMan after four days from last turnset :shakehead

Thanks. Was just going to say that .

McLMan - skipped
nero - up
Smart - deck

 

[nerovats]

Should be able to play tomorrow.