Beta v4.X - General Discussion

[Seek]

@Seek
I reduced NC science from 100% to 50% when Firaxis added +5 to the NC.

Good, I thought it was too powerful, and this is the first iteration I've played where it *hasn't* been 100%.

 

[Sneaks]

Thal, might the problem be that there is no graphical representation of total culture accrued for a city? Anyone looking inside will only see the the CPT, and turns til border growth.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Seek
It was changed back in December I think, though I might have forgotten to document it properly.

@Sneaks
I don't believe such a value exists in the game. I think it could be calculated easily enough from GetJONSCultureStored and GetJONSCultureLevel, if you happen to know what the formula is for GetJONSCultureThreshold per level.

Ooo that reminds me... something that's bugged me for a long while is the confusing display of the experience bar on unit panels. I don't think it's necessary to show experience gained for previous levels. Does that bother anyone else? I could change it to only show the current level...

 

[Sneaks]

Nono, I get that. What I mean is that in Civ IV, the City Screen showed you the total culture accumulated by that city ever. In Civ V, this is missing (due to culture becoming global in function)

 

[Thalassicus]

Right... I realized what you were saying and edited while you were replying!

Have you seen reference to the formula anywhere? I'm sure it could be figured out easily enough... just hasn't ever been a high priority for me.

 

[jacktannery]

@jacktannery
The culture gain happens when combat ends. Do you have any other mods installed?

If you've only got TBC installed, could you do a few things for me to help figure out what the problem is? .

Well I realised I did indeed have another mod: the barbarian & ranged XP mod. I deleted this and reloaded the game and I still did not get culture to my cities after killing barbs with the Aztec.

I did as instructed, but my Livetuner text looks very different to yours. Here is a sample. The only thing I have done this turn is to kill two barbarians.

...CiVUP - Civ V Unofficial Patch\CiVUP - Event Registration: DEBUG  DoF sci bonus for Bismarck: 52.28+1.55  @ TECH_MATHEMATICS
...CiVUP - Civ V Unofficial Patch\Seek FRB\DiscoverMission: Warning: cache not shared.
...CiVUP - Civ V Unofficial Patch\Seek FRB\DiscoverMission: Warning: cache not shared.
 NotificationPanel: Notification: 	Barbarian	10
 NotificationPanel: BarbarianFinger Title 	TextControl: 3E538FA0

Was that helpful? I suspect I did it wrong.

 

[Seek]

Ooo that reminds me... something that's bugged me for a long while is the confusing display of the experience bar on unit panels. I don't think it's necessary to show experience gained for previous levels. Does that bother anyone else? I could change it to only show the current level...

Great idea!

Out of curiosity, what would be the purpose of having a culture meter in a city? Seems unnecessary (outside of a visual confirmation that the Aztec's UA is working properly).

 

[SlightlyMad]

Ooo that reminds me... something that's bugged me for a long while is the confusing display of the experience bar on unit panels. I don't think it's necessary to show experience gained for previous levels. Does that bother anyone else? I could change it to only show the current level...

This has bothered me ever since my 2nd or 3rd game when I actually noticed it! I remember being confused by it before I figured it out, too.

 

[Sneaks]

Great idea!

Out of curiosity, what would be the purpose of having a culture meter in a city? Seems unnecessary (outside of a visual confirmation that the Aztec's UA is working properly).

Because, invariably, it will be part of some important mod or another. At this stage in the modding game, I think it is really important that we preempt possible UI needs.

 

[Thalassicus]

@jacktannery
Thank you for your patience with this. It's odd nothing is printing... are you playing CiV v1.0.1.167 on a PC?

Let's try updating completely instead of a single file. This means your savegame won't work anymore, though.

1. Start a new game with v4.31.
   1. Download v4.31
   2. Open this file:
      Mods\Thals Balance Mods - Combined (v 4)\TBC - Thals Balance Combined\Leaders\BL - General.lua
   3. Change this line near the top to show more debug stuff:
      

      logger:SetLevel(LOG_WARN)

      change to this then save the file:
      

      logger:SetLevel(LOG_TRACE)

   4. Clear your cache.
   5. Start CiV.
   6. Enable only the TBC mod.
   7. Start a new game as the Aztecs.
2. Found your capital city.
3. Place a hostile Pikeman and friendly Rifleman.
   1. Open the tuner.
   2. Under the Map tab of the tuner, select in this order:
      1. Units: Pikeman
      2. Players: Barbarian
      3. Unit plopper enabled: check
   3. In CiV, click somewhere to drop the pikeman.
   4. Repeat for the rifleman:
      1. Units: Rifleman
      2. Players: Aztec
      3. Unit plopper enabled (should still be checked)
   5. In CiV, click the rifleman next to the pikeman.
   6. In the tuner un-check "unit plopper enabled"
4. Save your game.
5. Attack the musket with the rifle.
6. If your capital gets culture, it might have just been a problem with an earlier beta version. If you don't get culture however, check the "Lua Console" tab of the tuner and copy-paste the output from there. Either way you can change the LOG_TRACE back to LOG_WARN from step 1.

Again... thank you for being patient with this! I'm just trying to figure out where the problem might be.

 

[DeAnno]

@Sneaks
I don't believe such a value exists in the game. I think it could be calculated easily enough from GetJONSCultureStored and GetJONSCultureLevel, if you happen to know what the formula is for GetJONSCultureThreshold per level.

I'm not sure that's true from what I understand, since the price of Culture Levels can change midway through a City's development for any of several reasons, like the Tradition opener or Angkor Wat. If your first 4 culture pops are Traditionless and then you get 6 Tradition pops, it might be difficult to reconstruct the "full culture" in the city from the save state if all you have is the number of pops and the progress towards the next.

 

[Txurce]

Playing v4.30 I'm encountering a bug I've had once before. I have 3 gold as Arabia - thereby worth 6, since I have bazaars - and have exported 2, but am being told I have 0 available (as opposed to 4). I'm also being credited for 3 silver (2 tradeable) but only have 1 source. (I have no CS allies right now.)

 

[Thalassicus]

@Rhys DeAnno
Hmm good point.

@Txurce
Has this only happened with the Arabian civilization? I use entirely vanilla functions for the calculations, so one of them might be bugged and not properly account for bazaars.

 

[Txurce]

@Rhys DeAnno
Hmm good point.

@Txurce
Has this only happened with the Arabian civilization? I use entirely vanilla functions for the calculations, so one of them might be bugged and not properly account for bazaars.

It happened a while ago with someone else. In that case I conquered a city with gold, but received no credit for it. Restarting (not relaoading) fixed it, if I recall.

I am receiving accurate credit for ivory. Silver says I have 3, of which 2 are tradeable. Gold says I have zero, having exported 2 (where I actually have 4, 2 with bazaars, therefore worth 6).

 

[Thalassicus]

In the case of the gold resource... are you actually unable to trade excess of that resource, or is it simply being reported incorrectly on the top bar display?

With silver... I'm not sure what the problem might be but I'll do some experimentation. To get the left-most number I directly output what the vanilla function GetNumResourceTotal gives me. These functions are poorly documented though, and I might be using it wrong.

 

[Txurce]

In the case of the gold resource... are you actually unable to trade excess of that resource, or is it simply being reported incorrectly on the top bar display?

With silver... I'm not sure what the problem might be but I'll do some experimentation. To get the left-most number I directly output what the vanilla function GetNumResourceTotal gives me. These functions are poorly documented though, and I might be using it wrong.

I can neither trade the excess gold, nor does it show in the top bar.

I tried to clear the cache (delete the Mods database i the cache folder, right?) and that knocked me into a permanent runtime error, so I'll just play Arabia again in my next game and see how it goes. My guess is that it's one of those rare things.

 

[SlightlyMad]

I really like the change to make declarations of friendship boost science output, but it seems like way too much to be available so early. Is there any way to make it dependent on a tech or certain era? Especially once the patch hits and DOFs expire, there will be little reason not to befriend absolutely everyone and rocket through the ancient and classical eras.

edit: Actually, is it still supposed to only be active after Philosophy, or was that changed? I could swear I saw my science rate jump before then, but maybe I was mistaken. I won't be able to play again this weekend to check though.

 

[Txurce]

In the case of the gold resource... are you actually unable to trade excess of that resource, or is it simply being reported incorrectly on the top bar display?

With silver... I'm not sure what the problem might be but I'll do some experimentation. To get the left-most number I directly output what the vanilla function GetNumResourceTotal gives me. These functions are poorly documented though, and I might be using it wrong.

It works fine in my new game, so it's probably one of those vanilla things.

 

[SlightlyMad]

Vanilla seems to have intermittent issues with resource and gold counts. I think instead of calculating as needed or caching and recalculating when changed, it just keeps a running tally of most things, which will occasionally get out of whack. I've had games before where the game wouldn't deduct my resources when I traded them away, but would still give them "back" when the trade ended, resulting in me eventually having a hundred or so iron.

 

[Txurce]

I've had something unusual happen in my current game. Two cities have had sudden pop losses while having plenty of food and their counters saying as much. My overall pop is also really low, considering I have 4 Maritime alliances.

EDIT: I'm not getting credit for my Maritimes. The capital has only two food, as if I had no Maritime alliances. But I keep getting positive growth notices, and it looks as if it's always close to a buils.