Nobles' Club LXXXVIII: Suryavarman II of the Khmer

[Lewarks]

Played it until 50AD on Immortal/Normal speed.

Spoiler :

My build order was :

Worker
The Great Wall
Warrior
Stonehenge
The Pyramids (with a 3 pop whipping for a settler)

I belive I teched :

Masonry -> The Wheel -> Mysticism -> Agriculture -> Fishing -> Potery -> Writting -> Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Law -> Civil Service

I also built The Hanging Garden and Chichen Itza. I currently have 9 cities (hesitating settling the 10th one or not).















I'd tech for Cuir/Cav, take out Lizzy and finish through Space with 20+ cities.

 

[vranasm]

Immortal Normal to 720 AD

ok I wanted to try this obsolete's SSE strategy and am not disatisfied, actually I am very satisfied but need consultation where to next.

Spoiler :

I guess I played the starting a bit different at places, but the main strategy revolved around Stonehenge, GW, Mids, TGL, Parthenon and settling specs.

2 GS was used for academies (capital and cottage city), Great Artist from music was used on golden age in 'appropriate time'.

I libbed MT at 620 AD


Biggest issue in a sense is 5 cities meaning 5 production queues and 1 is blocked by Taj Mahal (due in 8T). And 2 cities need a bit more infra.
so only 2 spots are ready to pump out cuirassiers.

The good news is I CAN pump cuirassiers.

My strategy next would be to switch into slavery and whip whip whip whip.




First target of war either Charlemagne (in war with JC) or America west of me to gain more production queues (there I would go for complete kill probably)

 

[Lewarks]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

Why didn't you settle your great people in your cottaged city ? You could put OU in this city and get a lot of breakers from towns and settled great people. With 2 "breaker cities" you'll miss half of it.

 

[vranasm]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

Why didn't you settle your great people in your cottaged city ? You could put OU in this city and get a lot of breakers from towns and settled great people. With 2 "breaker cities" you'll miss half of it.

Spoiler :

OU is not available for me with 5 cities, it's actually good question... dunno... i would have to move palace there, but there is not enough hammers, but honestly i didn't think this through too much.
It was somewhat more straightforward this way. the cottage city came as number 3, gold is number 2 and I don't remember at what point i popped the first GP.

right now the hammers from settled specs is multiplied by bureau+forge.

Honestly would like to hear more about the future of this game and if my thinking is "ok".

 

[mtr12]

Spoiler :

Personally, I Cottaged Yashodharapura and had it work a full BFC. We have soooooo many resources, allowing for strong vertical growth, and Yasho has enough food (and Baray) so that it becomes really beastly.

Then again, my strategy here was to Elepult and secure enough land for a Cottage spam, not spam Specs and play for a Renaissance breakout. This is a pretty good map for an Elepult, since we have access to multiple gold mines, but I'm not sure if it works above Emperor.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Ele-pult works just fine regardless of level.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Monarch/Normal/No huts+events

Spoiler 1700 BC :

Decided to get every wonder that involved stone. I built 2 cities along the river for easy routes. So Stonehenge (?), Great Wall since it looks open, and Mids. Mids were quickly constructed so that was nice. I couldn't even really trade with people much because of this since I was ahead of their tech.

I built the Great Wall in the south city via chop and stone sent along the river. I don't want spies to pollute my capital GPP. I'd very much prefer a prophet.

Spoiler 200 AD :

Not really sure if the city to the far west was a good idea. I wanted to eventually touched the copper, but Lincoln ruined my dreams.



Burger King couldn't stand the awesome cultural onslaught and presented us with a gift. Switched to his religion to not incite him.

Spoiler 1000 AD :

HRE and Romans dogpiled poor Lincoln so I could easily rest. I noticed the AP wasn't built so I tried a hand in that but failed by 1 turn. Hammy was threatning diplo so I went Hindu. Charlemegne didn't appreciate this, so I decide to attack him, taking MT with Liberalism.

Spoiler 1907 Diplomation :

Ran through HRE and Babylon, but stupid Elizabeth got her hands on Rifling. While Rome continued to war with Lincoln, I had a hard time fighting her redcoats so cannons were needed.



Eventually Lincoln and Julius made peace, so I decided to take advantage. He quickly caps.

Julius has actually been doing very well and beat me to assembly line. Gah. Too much focus on war, and neglected oxford.

And I forgot a forge in the capital...



Justinian went Mass Media for some reason, so with only Julius left I traded MM, hurried the Un with an Engineer. But one turn before I can win UN diplo, AP diplo was possible so meh.

@Ketan

Spoiler :

If you want to keep your research up, just have a few cities build wealth, and gradually whip some courthouses in. GPT deals with your neighbors work fine.

England is probaly a softer target.

@Dalamb

Spoiler :

I don't think it was necessary to get the Great Wall so fast. Barbs aren't an issue at this point and nobody's gonna claim it on this level before 2000 BC. Would have been nicer to get another worker or settler out. You can check out my 2000 BC save (it's a BUG mod save though so...)

Light blue is a fairly straight forward choice since it can be connected via river, and early game this is helpful. As for oracling, you can probably go construction but get math pretty fast then.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Mmmm.. I was not going to play any more this week, but seems I broke down...

Spoiler :

Oh ye of the "get lots of production and food in the early-game" person.

Hypocrite.

 

[skymastergamerp]

Removed

 

[skymastergamerp]

Decidied to give it a go Noble with Huts on Any Advice is helpful since I haven't played in a while:

Spoiler :

Looking at the start position. We are the Khmers and Sury (of course). Creative and Expansive two traits who lead themselves to Empire Expansion Creative means we get double prodcution from Theaters, Librarys and Colleseums and also creative in new cities thus less need for Monuments. Expansive means cities get more Health as well as double production bonus for Granaries and Harbors as well ass a bonus producing workers. These two traits together with the Baray UB allow the Khmer to get big cities and dominate the map with culture. His UU the Ballista Elephant isn't much useful I find but do to us starting with Ivory I might give it a more use. Speaking of the resources we start with a Plains riverside wheat which is 5 and 1a Grassland Deer riverside which has same output and a Plains Ivory tile which is 1 3 and 1 (very good tile overall) and finnaly Plains stone which is a whooping 4 . With no incentive to not move I move the Scout back to try and find something which I don't I decide to settle in place



That reveals a riverside grassland Corn SCORE! This city is such a good capital GP Farm? with also a good hammer output oh yes!
This defenatly calls for worker first while teching Agriculture-Masonry (trying to go to Mids) Since we start with Hunting we can already improve the deer and the Ivory.

I decide to send my Scout around clockwise to explore. Hum looks like we are starting close to the Northern Tundra.



Around 3840 BC My Scout finds a Tribal Village which only netts me a map. Looking at it I see only a Silver resource in the midst of all that useless territory(defenatly low priority)



In that Interturn I meet Charlemagne's Scout from who stole a Hut from under my nose: Protective and Imperialistic this is guy is so annoying to fight and I will have to fight him early I know that for sure great, he does like religions though so who knows he might found one for me.



On 3600 BC I complete my worker and send him towards the plains wheat (looking back I should have went for the corn first that was stupid from my part and probably one of the many mistakes I made) I decide then to pump some warriors to be defenders and to fogbust the map. And yes as you can see Charlie founded Buddhism thanks buddy.



Not long after I find his starting position near the jungle to the south. Hum I really want to get that gold before him and since he is so close he defenatly has to go.



In 3360 BC I get Masonry which in addition to letting me get that quarry also allows me to be one step closer to Barays. Next I go to BW (I admit I felt a bit panicked about seeing Charlie and wanted to find a metal to elimanate him, I should have probably grabbed the Wheel before and then BW so I could road the Stone and get the Mids done, though I suppose I can still chop them.)



Also Hinduism got FIADL not sure who it yet.
While My Scout explored the lands around Charlie I found a goody hut that Charile hadn't popped as well as some shiny gems (defenatly building a city there eventually) Sweet Revenge Charlie!



Next turn my warrior who went west followed some blue borders who turned out to be Lincoln hum Charismatic and Philosophical don't remember him too much can someone give some hints to deal with him. He is also close so who knows I might attack him before Charlie.



My Scout then fought two animals and managed to survive afterwards I met two new leaders Julius Caeser of Rome (Organized and Imperialistic and Praets very tough but he usually gets weaker as the game progresses)



And at the same turn I met Justinian of the Byzantines(yes what are the odds of meeting both at same time)



Once Yasodahrapura reaches size 3 I decide to begin working on a Settler.



Around 3040 BC I get the Herbalist event I decide for the Happyness bonus since I don't need the additional Health bonus.



On 2920 BC I discover Bronze Working after which I go for the wheel.



There are two sources of Copper but are somewhat in tough locations one in the Tundra area close to the silver.



The second is near Charlie's territory so it will be almost impossible to get it.



I decide not to adopt Slavery right away though I wonder if I should have.
On 2800 BC I finish the settler and I pause here to hear youre guy's opinions on the matter.



Here are some potential city sites not sure if you guys agree on them.

So guys post away you're suggestions and here is the savefile

 

[Archon_Wing]

@skymastergamerp

Spoiler :

Because you are CRE; 2s of the gold. It will be a good production site, and take the gold with decent food. Your borders will push HRE away, and also easily secure the decent food site near that lake.

You also want to scout the southeast and bring your scout back closer to home. The main purpose of early scouts is to find your nearby rivals and city sites. There's no point scouting places you have no chance of settling any time soon.

The other issue is that you really want to improve food first. Ivory should have been the last special tile to be improved. You don't need the happiness for quite a while.

 

[skymastergamerp]

@skymastergamerp

Spoiler :

Because you are CRE; 2s of the gold. It will be a good production site, and take the gold with decent food. Your borders will push HRE away, and also easily secure the decent food site near that lake.

You also want to scout the southeast and bring your scout back closer to home. The main purpose of early scouts is to find your nearby rivals and city sites. There's no point scouting places you have no chance of settling any time soon.

The other issue is that you really want to improve food first. Ivory should have been the last special tile to be improved. You don't need the happiness for quite a while.

Spoiler :

Yes I will probably do once I play it in a bit in terms of tech path should I shoot for Iron Working to try and beat Lincoln?

 

[i_imperator]

Hey guys, i'm back on holidays so i will have time to do this. Haven't actually played civilization iv since Nobles Club Ragnar, so i might do this on Monarch/Epic. Great to be back by the way.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Spoiler :

Yes I will probably do once I play it in a bit in terms of tech path should I shoot for Iron Working to try and beat Lincoln?

Spoiler :

There's pretty much no reason to self tech Iron Working unless you have masses of jungles to clear. Gambling on whether you have iron is also not recommended. If you can go for swords, you can go for elephant/catapult (you already are guaranteed elephants) which is gonna be much easier.

 

[skymastergamerp]

Up to 1640 BC and another crossroads

Spoiler :

So I started looking at some suggestions made by Archon together with some thoughts of mine and decided then to adjust gold city placment 2 s so it could grab the cows and corn (does anyone know a good path of irrigation for it?)



The very next turn I meet another AI coming from the east.



Elizabeth or must commonly known Lizzie she is Financial and Philosophical a very good competitor to have and someone who techs very well. But at Noble she isnt' a big threat to Lib race unless you suck at this game which I do somewhat. Anyway she came from the East hum more land from that side then really need to explore there.

Then the following turn I meet Hammurabi who is the Hindu founder.



I am really wondering how did this guy beat Justinian to Hinduism weird anyway he is Aggresive and Expensive and he does war pretty well. He also has a very UU the Bowman defenatly not messing with him until I have Horses.

Next turn I found Hariharalaya. First in build order is a warrior since there is nothing better and I can allways use the fog busters. This city will mostly likely pay for itself once it gets the gold online which for some reason I forgot until end of this period.



After some more exploration I decide upon another city to the south of my capital 1 w of the cows. That gets besides the cows the rice a dye and 3 floodplains as well as a couple of grasslands defenatly a commerce city.



And then I found another good citysite in 2480 BC (though as you see I built the city 1 tile off the coast I would have got the three resources at the same and be able to block Charlie and still have the benifits of being coastal oh well nothing I can do) It gets another gold source and feeds itself with the Bananas while being another commerce site though it can be a hammer one too though.



In 2440 BC I discover Animal Husbandry which allows Pastures and guess where is Horses?



BAM! Right there in the capital all right.

There is also another source near the cows site I marked early which makes it even stronger overall.



I go for Pottery next so as to unlock Granaries and also cottages.

In 2280 BC I finish the settler at my capital who goes towards the 3rd city site and I decide to pump an additional warrior.



In 2200 BC I discover Pottery at which point I go for Iron working both for the purposes of helping with Jungle as well as getting a metal.



After Hari finishes warrior I decide to build a granary at which point I decide to finnaly switch to Slavery (could have done that earlier)



The next turn I found Angkor Thorm on the site 1 W of the cows.



At around this time I find Hammy's lands looks like he is to the SE of Charlie.



A couple of turns I get one bad random event this is the one that makes you lose beakers.



In 1960 BC Gibbon completes the work the wealthiest civs on the planet yes I am last and confirms my hynch this is Pangea hum.



In 1640 BC I found Angkor Wat (on that spot I shouldn't have done but oh well) And I stop here for some more advice.



Here is my lands there are some sites I defenatly want the Very good site would be a wet dream but I doubt I could steal it from Charlie or Lincoln but I will try nonethless (that site has double gems and Copper). Other good citysites are Spicysheep and piggyhorse. I do need to explore west now so as to cover more city sites.



BTW he is a shot of my capital just finishing a Granary while afterwards I am going for the Mids (I am sure I can grab them Stonehenge hasn't even fell so I feel confidant) BTW what should I tech after IW I was thinking Writing and then Alphabet to backfill but if you guys have any other suggestion feel free to say it.

 

[skymastergamerp]

Spoiler :

There's pretty much no reason to self tech Iron Working unless you have masses of jungles to clear. Gambling on whether you have iron is also not recommended. If you can go for swords, you can go for elephant/catapult (you already are guaranteed elephants) which is gonna be much easier.

Spoiler :

Damn it already played and almost self researched Iron Working well I can forget getting the Oracle then.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Spoiler :

Not that you should worry about irrigation now, but there's already fresh water north of the gems so it's not a problem.

Remember to improve tiles before roading.

As for Angor Thorn. I would have moved that dot 2e1s so it can cover the gold. Dye can't be worked until calendar, and isn't very spectacular regardless. You're better off getting another gold online and working it (easy given the food, and you have IW to clear the rice). I'd also place yet another city 2e3s of the capital to share food and work all the floodplains for tons of commerce. As played, a city 3e3s isn't terrible, but you'll have to lose a floodplain.

I dislike Ankor Wat as it only has bananas as food and will take forever to be productive. 1N1e would have let it share the rice and give it fresh water.

Your spawnbusting is doing good though; maybe one more warrior into the fog in the west will be good.

Still a lot of forests, so chop the mids out.

 

[skymastergamerp]

Spoiler :

Not that you should worry about irrigation now, but there's already fresh water north of the gems so it's not a problem.

Remember to improve tiles before roading.

As for Angor Thorn. I would have moved that dot 2e1s so it can cover the gold. Dye can't be worked until calendar, and isn't very spectacular regardless. You're better off getting another gold online and working it (easy given the food, and you have IW to clear the rice). I'd also place yet another city 2e3s of the capital to share food and work all the floodplains for tons of commerce. As played, a city 3e3s isn't terrible, but you'll have to lose a floodplain.

I dislike Ankor Wat as it only has bananas as food and will take forever to be productive. 1N1e would have let it share the rice and give it fresh water.

Your spawnbusting is doing good though; maybe one more warrior into the fog in the west will be good.

Still a lot of forests, so chop the mids out.

Spoiler :

Yes Ankor Wat is in such a bad place that is what I get from playing at late night yesterday. I was actually thinking of founding coastel but anyway any ideias for tech paths or build orders. (Right now I am getting Granaries up and thinking of going Writing - Alphabet)

 

[Archon_Wing]

@skymastergamerp

Spoiler :

Depends on your goals. Definitely get writing. You need open borders and a library with scientist specialists.

If you want to go the war route, you can get alphabet and go down the math/construction route.

If you want to keep expanding, you'll want currency after alphabet. The ability to build wealth is very nice for your economy. You can also sell worthless techs and extra resources for money.

Then the natural path would be math----> Code of Laws for courthouses---> Civil Service for bureau (somehow get meditation, and burn a Great Scientist on Philosophy. Trade for stuff like Metal Casting and Construction

 

[mtr12]

Damn it already played and almost self researched Iron Working well I can forget getting the Oracle then.

Oracle is a bit overrated, don't worry about it. It's a must-get if you have Marble, but there are higher priorities earlygame.

The problem is mainly beaker-related. You should be getting up improvement techs and teching Pottery/Writing for your crucial buildings (Granaries in every city, Libraries for border pops and Scientists). Then going towards Alphabet for trades (or Aesth if you're on IMM/DEI). It's a bit hard to find room for Myst --> Poly --> Priesthood in the middle of all that.



Well, that's the basic plan in most games. If you have strong starting techs, you have a lot more luxuries and possible openings, and you can consider things like Oracle/MC/GE/Pyramids or whatever. For example, Qin has a way stronger opening than Brennus. Just try playing games with both and see what happens.