Striking a Deal With an AI, Then Breaking It

[Cicerosaurus]

Just playing a game where Monty had a lot of troops and was going to attack in a few turns. Before he could Harald declared war on me.

So, to get rid of two problems I bribed Monty to declare War on Harald.

All well and good. Part of the deal was I was to supply Monty with gems (I only had one source).

Then along wandered a barbarian and I let it pillage the gem mine before I killed it. So, end of gems to Monty. I'll repair the mine and get my gems back.

Do I take a diplomatic hit with Monty for this?

If now, would it be feasible to pillage my own mine to break the deal?

 

[black213]

You don't take a diplo hit from it. And you can't pillage inside your own territory.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Thanks Black213. I never knew that about pillaging inside your territory.

Does that apply to everything? What about if I build a road I no longer need- I have to pay charges on it for ever?

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Never mind- you can't

(And I'm glad the gems stopped. Monty made peace with Harald and declared war on me).

 

[black213]

IIRC only Workers can destroy own roads.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

It is real fun being on a continent with Monty Elizabeth and Harald and being at war with them all at the same time- constantly.

Even the raging barbarians are a God send as they help me out.

This can only end in tears.

 

[StrategyMaster4]

Lol, interesting forum

 

[Charlie_B]

This raises a question I've been pondering recently.

I think most people would agree that doing a deal with the AI then declaring war on them is a fairly cheap way to play. But how do people feel about seeing an AI massing on your borders and doing as many deals with them as you can, expecting that they'll be broken in a few turns?

 

[woodshadows]

i believe that though you can't pillage your own gem mine, you could replace it with a farm, effectively destroying it as an available luxury

 

[woodshadows]

This raises a question I've been pondering recently.

I think most people would agree that doing a deal with the AI then declaring war on them is a fairly cheap way to play. But how do people feel about seeing an AI massing on your borders and doing as many deals with them as you can, expecting that they'll be broken in a few turns?

that's one of my biggest pet peeves in this game, seeing an army marching towards my city and all I can do is just sit and wait for the inevitable DoW, since pre-emptively attacking would give me the diplo hit. I consider trading before the inevitable DoW to be just as cheap as trading everything before you DoW the AI, it's just way too powerful, especially on higher levels where you can sell everything you have and get thousands in gold for free.

 

[kaspergm]

i believe that though you can't pillage your own gem mine, you could replace it with a farm, effectively destroying it as an available luxury

Nope, can't build other improvements than the appropriate Lux improvement on Luxuries. Can't put a farm over Gems, even if they sit along river or on jungle.

As for the trade deal thing - taking their gold just before a DoW ... I normally don't do it actively, but if for instance the AI offers me some stupid peace deal where they give me 10.000 Gold for a 10 turn peace treaty I'm not above takigng the gold, waiting 10 turns, and then DoW'ing them. I know it's cheap, but I sort of feel I'm only taking back what AI gets as various handicap bonuses. I had sort of hoped that with the new peace treaty levels, they would have made a lot of levels between the flat peace deal and the 'give all gold and resources', but alas, instead they added a lot of sublevels above that (which doesn't really matter, because anything above that means game over for that AI anyway).

 

[woodshadows]

Nope, can't build other improvements than the appropriate Lux improvement on Luxuries. Can't put a farm over Gems, even if they sit along river or on jungle.

.

hm.. i guess polynesia could do this though, as long as it was a coastal tile. also, i would imagine a citadel would work, or possibly other great person tiles.. not really something to use as a strategy to cheat the ai, but just interesting to figure out the limitations involved.

i do the same thing, taking peace terms where the ai gives me loads of cash or cities, then declaring 10 turns later. they always do the same thing to me, so it's fair i figure - those ten turns are more of a ceasefire than a real peace treaty anyhow, they give me gold and luxuries/cities and in exchange they have 10 turns to rebuild an army to fight me, which also gives them back their gpt and luxuries.

 

[whyidie]

This raises a question I've been pondering recently.

I think most people would agree that doing a deal with the AI then declaring war on them is a fairly cheap way to play. But how do people feel about seeing an AI massing on your borders and doing as many deals with them as you can, expecting that they'll be broken in a few turns?

I've tried this before with limited success. Didn't get a crippling amount of cash for it. I looked at it initially as a way of discouraging them from declaring war or gauging the likely hood of a declaration.

Clearly doesn't work as a deterrent so I don't do it anymore.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

I really don't see that taking any cash before an AI declares was is a problem. Often enough they will ask for a Research Agreement and then declare war before it matures so you lose your dollars. (They lose theirs also but it is their decision).

 

[crawf0rd]

Has anyone tried building a fort over the lux improvement, removing the original improvement

 

[gozpel]

To sell and then declare war is not nice.

To sell and be declared on is nice.

For me this is black and white, and thus fair. Tell Nappy he can have your gems for 208 gold when you see the swarm, throw in your horses too for 128g. I see no problems with that, sometimes they want to kill someone else, and you did some deals. Then we call it grey.

 

[BrotherInJah]

hm.. i guess polynesia could do this though, as long as it was a coastal tile. also, i would imagine a citadel would work, or possibly other great person tiles.. not really something to use as a strategy to cheat the ai, but just interesting to figure out the limitations involved.

GP tiles don't cut you off from res. I discovered it when uranium pop out under GE tile, i get all quantity.

 

[woodshadows]

GP tiles don't cut you off from res. I discovered it when uranium pop out under GE tile, i get all quantity.

oh, that's good to know, many times I've been wary to pop a citadel down because I figured it would cause me to be unable to get the benefit of the resource underneath. or maybe great people tiles don't include the citadel.

 

[Karmah]

GP tiles don't cut you off from res. I discovered it when uranium pop out under GE tile, i get all quantity.

strategic ressources only.
It was implemented because for some you can t know they are here before planting an academy for instance.

 

[Browd]

You get the quantity from the strategic resource (whether it's horses, coal, oil, whatever), so you can trade the resource, or build buildings and units that depend on that resource (e.g., cavalry, factories, swordsmen, fighters, etc.), but you don't get the same tile output benefits as you would if you mined (or pastured or oil-welled) the tile with that resource (i.e., you receive tile output based on a great person tile improvement with the strategic resource on that tile, but you don't get the extra hammers associated with the as-if-mined tile output as well).