Poland Discussions

I can bet 10$ that the first three cities in the list are going to be Warsaw, Kraków and Vilnius.

I'm sure one of the first cities will be Gniezno - first Polish capitol. Vilnus has only been founded around 1320, not to mention it's a Lithuanian city (however it switched sides in the history).

I even think they could do a historic accurate city naming - Gniezno as a capitol, Cracow as the second city (second capitol) and Warsaw as the third city (it is the capitol since 1596). But I can already see Warsaw as the capitol, so clearly it won't be done like that.
 
I really like Poland's UA, but I'm underwhelmed by the Ducal Stables and the Winged Hussar doesn't do much for me, even if it does knock back units. It seems like what the Lancers should be.
 
Yea the ability seems like the thing that could make lancers useful. Seems something logical for all lancers to have considering their history
 
I will tell you several interesting things about the Winged Hussary, that you wont read in history books. Maybe only in polish ones.
Forgive me for alle the mistakes, I am not native English speaker.

Amor patriae nostra lex - Hussary motto in Latin.
The Love to the homeland is our Law.


First of all there were several tacticts and advantages used by the Winged Hussars, that let them not to lose ANY battle over the 125 years.
Someone has already told about the spreading of the Hussars on the battlefield during the charge. And that they rejoin in a close line just before the charge reached the enemy units. Thats true. Whats a more, Hussars were trained to come REALLY close to each other. This way it was not possible for any enemy soldier to stay alive after the charge (especially that the Hussars were like a small medieval tanks, since the horseman in the full plat armor weighted at least 100 kg, and the horse itself was also armored in front, to whitstand pikemans defence).
The training that eventually allowed to use that tactic consisted of using a golden coin (Hussars own coin, that was worth much these times, mind you). To become a part of the Winged Hussar unit the horseman had to put the golden coin between his knee and a knee of the horseman next to him and hold it there during the entire charge. If one dropped the coin on the battlefield, he had to pay the other similar golden coin to the army. So yes, the "costly" training allowed Hussars a brilliant control over their formation and a decisive knee-to-knee charges.

Also the "wings" you see in many pictures were not only a distinguishing sign of the unit. How a charge of a not so big unit could break an enemy line? How was it possible that ~150 k Ottoman army fleed out of the battlefield over the besieged Vienna? Well... These feathers you see on the "wings" were doing a strange hum during the charge. Enemy, and especially their horses were not used to it and were just scared. If 1/3 of the horses declines to charge agains the incoming strange hum-sound, the enemy line may be broken even before the charge reaches the enemy.

Against the enemy cavalery Hussars were brilliant also because of the lances they were using. They were just much longer than any other European lances. A Winged Hussar lance could have up to 6 meters! So against other heavy cavalery they were unbeateable, because their lances reached the enemy horseman 2-3 meters before the enemy was able to hit back. Against the light cavalery Hussar`s full plate armors were also a deal.
How it was possible to have a 6 meter lances? Well... a trick. These lances were very light, because were empty inside. I dont know how they were produced, but thats was the idea :)

The last interesting thing I know about were the sabres. When the lance becam useless after the initial charge, Hussars used also the sabres. However if a horseman in a nearly full plate mail loses a sabre it is very hard to defend. So the sabres had a usefull ring near the hand. Hussars were putting there their thumbs... What for? Well. What would you chose If it was you? No weapon in the middle of the battle (which was a sure death) or a broken thumb? If an enemy hit Hussar in a way, that the sabre would be knocked out of his hand, the thumb was broken, but the sabre was still there, held only by the already broken thumb !

Now you know at least part of it why Hussars were so hard to beat :) Thx to them Poland was the only country that have ever beaten Russia and occupied the capital city Moscow (for two years).


Some of You said they know nothing about Poland, so below I have attacked a link to youtube movie, that shows the history of Poland in 10 minutes. You will be amazed ie. who build the first oil rigs and oil refinery, what did and who was the first female prof at Sorbone or who REALLY broke the Enigma code in the 2nd World War ;) There is also several seconds about the Hussars of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=zG8jsn-sIps
It is a bit boring in the start, but then it hastens and the music becomes nice too ;)

You can also see a bit more university-like approach to the history of Poland, presented by british prof. Norman Davies:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OoSdnebLxw

Enjoy.



See you soon on the battlefield! (and die - peacefully ;) )
TEO

PS. to answer a bet of 10$, I BET that you will see NO Vilnus at all in Poland faction as a city name. Not only as the third city, but never at all. This way they would really piss off the present Lithuania. Poland and Lithuania was once upon a time a great both-nation Commonwelath, but it is not at this time and it was not in time of the Casimir The Great. I bet the first cities will be Warsaw, Krakow and Gniezno, the capital cities in the history of Poland. (Gniezno was first btw ;) )

PS2. And the "Solidarity"... well... it is of course the name of the first independent trade union formed in the former communism block, but if you look at any of the movies i pasted links to, You will see, that in the entire time in the history of Poland, there was a freedom of language, a freedom of religion, and also kind of medieval democracy. Solidarity was and is a part of this country.
 
Thanks for that info, Teo, and welcome!

So their wings made a 'humming' sound when they charged? That's really cool...
 
the hum of the hussars wings sounds interesting. I bet the unit will work like the Carthaginian elephants but later in the era and faster due to being a Knight. If horsemen, then a faster but weaker then said elephants.
 
Here's a gameplay issue I see with the Polish UA:

Unless the free social policies aren't really free, there could be a balance issue. What I mean is, Solidarity should be like the Mayan UA, in that you get a 'free' item that still contributes to the cost of the next copy of that same 'free' item. In the case of Poland, rather than getting a Great Person earlier than normal and having the next one take even longer to get naturally (Mayan UA), they should get the social policy 'free' at the start of the era yet have it count toward raising the culture needed to get the next SP naturally.

Otherwise, Poland could be the greatest early cultural civ in the game:
* Imagine being Poland and getting a pantheon belief that boosts culture in some way. Next, you rush to get the first 2 cultural buildings up in each city. Already, you have high culture. Add to that the Polish UA. Then, add to that finishing the Oracle. In a case like this, you'd have a ridiculous number of SPs at that point. *

I haven't read enough to know precisely how the Polish UA works yet, so I may be wrong. But if the SPs from Solidarity actually are free, then that's a tremendous UA.
 
I think we can't tell yet if it's OP, the whole idea of culture in the game will be revamped and somehow connected to tourism, including different rules for cultural victory. So even if the UA gives Poland tons of culture it might not be such a game-changer.

Spoiler :
Culture Victory

-This is tied to your cultural pressure that you make from tourism
-if your lifetime accumulation of Tourism exceeds each other civs lifetime accumulation of Culture, you will achieve a Culture Victory - Ed Beach
 
Their UA will help them get policies they need for Science/Domination/Religion/Culture faster, but the UA doesn't actually give them more culture, just more policies, which they can use to get more raw culture, but most players would just be happy opening Rationalism/Commerce/Order as soon as they reach the era.

France's UA, on the other hand, actually gives you culture and starts working from Turn 0, the culture expands cities so you don't have to buy too many tiles even not working through Tradition.

Also, with the new culture victory, France will either have easier time with tourism or make it super hard for the opponent to have higher tourism than a wide France accumulated in its lifetime.
 
Tourism is a whole different resource kept in a whole different bucket like Faith is. Tourism is what wins cultural victories and culture keeps some one else from winning a cultural victory.

We know that Great Works and Artifacts will generate tourism. We can presume that some wonders will as well. There will probably be buildings that generate it and sopols or ideology tenets that enhance tourism.

So Poland getting free sopols and maybe tenets really only indirectly enhances their ability to win any victory type, including the new cultural one.
 
I think it would be cool if the Winged Hussars, on attack, began the animation spread apart but came together in a tight cluster when hitting the enemy unit.
 
Sorry for interrupting you all, but If you're interested in polish history or just want to learn something very fast you should definitely check this out -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrXgj1NwN8
It's animated history of Poland in 8 minutes, done for EXPO 2010 by an awesome animator Tomek Baginski

Unfortunately even as a Pole I dont recognize most of the scenes... Of course it is a nice animation, but 3/4 of the movie could be used for any nation ;)
 
The more I think about the Winged Hussar the better it sounds. That knockback ability sounds only ok, but when you combine it with the 5 movement, it really mitigates the base Lancer's perceived vulnerability. In open terrain the WH can hit a musketmen unit, move them back and retreat back out of the range of reprisal.
 
Out of 9 new civs, I wonder why Poland is the first one they decided to confirm. Is it random, or some sort of strategy behind it?
 
The joke is they wanted to prevent x-months of spam and whine from poles for Poland in yet another Civ game.

Jokes aside, as a proud pole, i`m thrilled that we get our nation as a playable official civilization. Winged Hussars are comming, be prepared, and very afraid :)
 
I think there are two reasons to show Poland first.

The first is what Iduakil said, which it wouldn't surprise me if it at least crossed their minds.

However, more importantly, Poland is thematically important. Part of the game is over ideological conflicts the Cold War/Post-Cold War eras. Given that, Poland played an important (although not quite central) role. In spite of Medieval/Renaissance leader, unit, and building, the UA is firmly in the modern world that the expansion pack is named after. And, honestly, there aren't that many modern world civs that are likely to be chosen that fit into the theme besides them.
 
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