Foreign Policy: Apolyton
- Thread starter talonschild
- Start date
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Actually, I am quite soft on this issue. Normally I would had changed way harsher tone/actions and even dropping Poly and CP as allies. This with the German lands is game shaping mistake. Both him and ot4e did it. Not to mention the NAPs they made with French.
And things must be told straight now, not when already under fire and you relying on your comrade to cover your back.
And things must be told straight now, not when already under fire and you relying on your comrade to cover your back.
Ok, so I will say it last time and will be silent forever. I am afraid we will lose this game by diplomacy. By acting arrogant and offending people left and right. So far, RB's diplomacy was near perfect, even though their situation was very difficult as a score leader.
I am afraid some people may dislike us so much that they will not help us /listen to our advice even when it is in their in-game interests :-( Of course I hope I am wrong - so no beer bets.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
It is not something new to say that diplomacy will decide the winner of the game. I said it liek 10 times on different occasions already that the game will be won or lost on the negotiations table and not on the battlefield.
CP and Poly did not listened to us, because they did not believed RB will attack Germans and because MZ prefered to build Universities instead of axes, not because they dont like us. And they made a mistake by not listening to us. They must realize it. So they listen to us next time. It is absolutely straight-forward.
Other team who did not listened to us (and again suffer now because of this) is Germans. But they did not listened to us not because we treated them wrong and they dont like us, but because they preferred to believe this is not the light of the train coming their way. The "could not happen exactly to me" syndrome.
CP and Poly did not listened to us, because they did not believed RB will attack Germans and because MZ prefered to build Universities instead of axes, not because they dont like us. And they made a mistake by not listening to us. They must realize it. So they listen to us next time. It is absolutely straight-forward.
Other team who did not listened to us (and again suffer now because of this) is Germans. But they did not listened to us not because we treated them wrong and they dont like us, but because they preferred to believe this is not the light of the train coming their way. The "could not happen exactly to me" syndrome.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Just as good ally, MZ told me this:
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Besides the excellent intel MZ gave us, he asked me if we are willing to help him slow the RB advancement in Germans lands. He asked us to pillage roads behind the German cities RB takes after the culture collapses. He said he have units there doing just the same 
What you think about this? It is not breaking any of the things we promised to RB.
What you think about this? It is not breaking any of the things we promised to RB.
YossarianLives
Deity
I say yes. I already told Scooter in chat (jokingly) that we were going to return the favor and assist whoever they go to war with.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Good.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Yeah, I was thinking the same
Why not? RB is openly helping SpAp against us... And there are no illusions about what happens after the NAP. Plus it gives us a chance to help Poly and build a good working cooperation relationship... However.
RB has been trying to figure out who our allies are... Doing something like this definitely helps them.
RB has been trying to figure out who our allies are... Doing something like this definitely helps them.
YossarianLives
Deity
I think bistrita's and 2metra's only hesitation is that we should concentrate on pillaging the tiles that will give us the most return. I don't think they're concerned about us betraying RB. Poly is probably thinking that pillaging roads will be most damaging because it will slow the RB advance, but denying them the extra commerce from mature towns is probably a lot more damaging long term. I mean, the Germans aren't going to be able to get anything in their cities that will stop RB just because we've delayed the advance a turn or two.
Scooter says that RB razed the city because it was poorly placed. Our scouting chariot should be able to confirm this when we log in next. If this is correct, then we need to act fast, as I suspect they'll have a Settler there immediately ready to re-settle the city wherever they want it. If they had captured the city, then we would at least have had as much time as the city was in revolt to pillage the tiles around it.
Scooter says that RB razed the city because it was poorly placed. Our scouting chariot should be able to confirm this when we log in next. If this is correct, then we need to act fast, as I suspect they'll have a Settler there immediately ready to re-settle the city wherever they want it. If they had captured the city, then we would at least have had as much time as the city was in revolt to pillage the tiles around it.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Yes, they razed Alamo. It showed well on the map. We see the ruins. Not sure why - maybe Ot4e had unit nearby and we see those ruins because we exchanged maps recently.
Our chariot is nearby the other city RB took. Too bad we did not thought about this earlier and send 2-3 more
Good point Sommers to showing our allies we are serious and cooperative and we mean business.
Our chariot is nearby the other city RB took. Too bad we did not thought about this earlier and send 2-3 more
Good point Sommers to showing our allies we are serious and cooperative and we mean business.
YossarianLives
Deity
Apolyton sent this message yesterday:
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Quite interesting chat I just had with MZ of Apolyton:
Most important part for me is that MZ says that he is not sure whichever will be best for them and he does not exclude the variant where we dont go against RB as agreed till now.
MZprox: hi
Изпратено в 11:35, петък
2metraninja: hi there
whats up?
Изпратено в 11:37, петък
MZprox: not mush here.. time is ticking slowly.. and there? any peace negotiations with maya?
2metraninja: we had sent them NAP proposal
zulu are dead next turn
so we have to come to some agreement with French
MZprox: nap till how long? you know according to our agreement you should discuss these things with us
2metraninja: that is good point, which I brought to you already few times
I still dont know how long NAP you have with French
MZprox: I'm sure I have told you that it's till t180
2metraninja: my wish was always we 3 sinchronize NAPs and because I knew we will have problems with French, I wished we all 3 have no NAPs with French or we all 3 have NAP simultaneous
if you and ot4e had o NAP now with French, situation could have been quite different
MZprox: not that much.. we have one unit/city in the west
I think overall we have less units than cities
2metraninja:
MZprox: yes.. we are not technically allies though
Изпратено в 11:44, петък
2metraninja:
Изпратено в 11:45, петък
MZprox: I'm not sure which would serve our interest better.. I'D be afraid about the aztecs though
we would be able to defend ourselves, but not the aztecs
and rb taking their land too can not be your interest
2metraninja: you are afraid that Azteca can fall easy pray to RB?
MZprox: yes
2metraninja: man, I think I said it few times already, but will say it one more time. Ot4e is from the finest mothering merciless and skilled killers in civ4 to be found in the whole world
he knows what to do
MZprox: yes, but is he a magician too? who can just summon an army?
2metraninja:
Изпратено в 11:50, петък
MZprox: because he has no army right now, almost as weak as we are, but there are two big difference between them and us: 1: our land is not open to attack 2 if all goes as planned we will be able to draft a modern army when the nap runs out in t170
Изпратено в 11:51, петък
2metraninja: he will be OK and ready for t170, I am sure
Изпратено в 11:53, петък
MZprox: did you see the mayan army btw? do they have knights?
because if they do it means they upgraded horse archers
2metraninja: yes, they upgraded knights
they used all money for upgrades, you were right about this
MZprox: so they burned that money..
2metraninja: poor fools will get burned playing it hard with us
I already start to feel sorry I did not killed their GM
MZprox: I plan to have a GM soon too.. no idea where to send him.. the world is not safe
soon=7-8 turns
Изпратено в 11:57, петък
MZprox: this weekend I played the civilization boardgame, it was quite fun
despite being my first game I achieved a military victory.. even after I said in the begining that I will play peacefully
2metraninja:
MZprox: ok, my opponnets were not experts in the game themselves, and there were some rules we didn't do right from the begining
Изпратено в 12:00, петък
Most important part for me is that MZ says that he is not sure whichever will be best for them and he does not exclude the variant where we dont go against RB as agreed till now.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
More:
Most important thing to me is that MZ says without any hesitation that WE ARE NOT ALLIES with them. To me this is the most important statement of entire chat.
And that our war with CivFr substantially lessens his enthusiasm for RB dogpile. Difficult not to agree with this point
