How to get science in a tall empire

[robincox]

Whenever I go for a tall empire at king level, I always seem to fall behind in science. Does anyone have a good strategy for good science in a tall empire?

This is my way that doesn't seem to be enough:

1. Research writing so I can build great library or start building libraries as the first building in all cities.

2. As soon as possible get land or sea traderoutes.

3. Research toward University.

 

[kaltorak]

Try to get a quick national college.
Grow your cities a lot.
Your capital should reach over 20 population, so you can run specialists. You can help with internal food traderoutes.

I wouldn't disregard your infrastructure to get too quickly to writing and education. yes, aim for it, but dont forget granary, acueducts and other things that will improve your city and give you more population and specialists and better construction times.

 

[Mesix]

A Tell empire (with he help to Tradition) should generate a lot more science than a wide empire in general because more = more . There is also a malus of 5% for each additional city (or puppet) in BNW, so wide strategies do not scale as well.

Three key things to a tall strategy:

Get the National College up fast.
Build (or rush buy) science buildings as soon as they become available.
Staff all scientist slots in available buildings.

 

[VainoValkea]

Get National College as soon as possible, grow the National College city as soon as possible, assign citizens to work as scientists.

Remember, large cities make the difference between tall and small! Aim for city sizes in the 20's and 30's, any why not even beyond those!

Also, pick rationalism - it's still a good tree for securing advantages in the tech race.


EDIT: To clarify what Mesix said, each city you own (puppet or directly controlled, doesn't matter) increases your tech costs by 5 percentage points, so tall empires enjoy notably cheaper techs than wide ones.

 

[sherbz]

I think you need to be in a certain kind of situation to go tall, and primarily that means you have an absolute shed load of food. No good going tall if you are on plains or in Jungle with no rivers around.

I still think tall is an inferior way of playing to wide though. I never seem to do as well at it.

 

[Mesix]

I think you need to be in a certain kind of situation to go tall, and primarily that means you have an absolute shed load of food. No good going tall if you are on plains or in Jungle with no rivers around.

I still think tall is an inferior way of playing to wide though. I never seem to do as well at it.

I only play wide on Domination games. When going for any other victory I find that Tall is generally superior. The only game mechanic which seems to favor a wide strategy is religion. With a limited number of producing buildings, religion becomes stronger with more cities. To some extent UB are also better the more you build them I suppose.

 

[VainoValkea]

sherbz, I have the exact opposite experiences - I think in BNW tall is superior, especially because trade routes can reap huge income no matter how little cities you have. Although I'm a bit biased, having played only very few wide games in BNW.

 

[kaltorak]

I think tall is not only superior, but also easier.

 

[gberetfr]

I think you need to be in a certain kind of situation to go tall, and primarily that means you have an absolute shed load of food. No good going tall if you are on plains or in Jungle with no rivers around.

I still think tall is an inferior way of playing to wide though. I never seem to do as well at it.

I agree with the first sentence, "an absolute shed load of food" being a little bit exagerated, but there it is food is essential. As for the 2nd sentence for me it's exactly the opposite (much better tall vs wide...) ! And that's what's good in Civ : no definitive answer, not 1 way to play.

This being said, back on the subject. And back to the 1st point : food.

1st of all to grow an efficient tall empire you need food, and that's what you want to prioritize from turn 1 till humm... almost the end (of course situational exception always exists). And that has a direct effect on science as is directly related to population. In that regard building a granary before a library will be better for example. Improve also the food tiles 1st,...

So try to make your cities as big and as quickly as possible (that's where those Tradition bonuses are important). It's the 1st point (and not only for science...).

And then I think you know the rest. Once you've launched the reproduction process for your citizens and filled their stomach, they'll be happy to do some research for you ! Build libraries and NC as soon as you can, caravans, beeline education, build universities, specialists (here again food is key...) and so on...

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Whenever I go for a tall empire at king level, I always seem to fall behind in science. Does anyone have a good strategy for good science in a tall empire?

This is my way that doesn't seem to be enough:

1. Research writing so I can build great library or start building libraries as the first building in all cities.

2. As soon as possible get land or sea traderoutes.

3. Research toward University.

Define what you consider Tall. I seen someone claim that 10 cities was tall. I stopped laughing a half hour later.

 

[Tabarnak]

Whenever I go for a tall empire at king level, I always seem to fall behind in science. Does anyone have a good strategy for good science in a tall empire?

This is my way that doesn't seem to be enough:

1. Research writing so I can build great library or start building libraries as the first building in all cities.

2. As soon as possible get land or sea traderoutes.

3. Research toward University.

4) Get policies faster with : Great artists/writers/musicians

5)Sign RAs <30 turns before Porcelaine Tower and 50% boost policy

6)Plant your gs until Scientific Theory

 

[Greasy Dave]

Build granaries in your cities and send food caravans to your capital - that little baby will grow faster than you can say camel dung

 

[Mesix]

Define what you consider Tall. I seen someone claim that 10 cities was tall. I stopped laughing a half hour later.

In general terms Tall means fewer cities with higher population per city while wide means more cities with smaller population (and less infrastructure) per city.

The extremes would be a tall empire of only one city with 50+ population and a wide empire playing as the Celts to found the Welsh village of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (the 33rd city in their list of names IIRC). At medium ranges of 6-10 cities, the distinction between tall and wide might vary from one player to another.

 

[VainoValkea]

The widest "tall" I've played was five cities - if expansion is a priority, it turns into wide.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Ya, but what does the OP consider tall and wide? I have my own tall demands, no more than 4 cities for me. Of course, me going wide is 10 cities. What I was wondering, is how many cities he is he building.

 

[dexters]

For me, Cut off for Tall for me is 4 cities. That's the cap for all the tradition bonuses.

 

[robincox]

Define what you consider Tall. I seen someone claim that 10 cities was tall. I stopped laughing a half hour later.

For me 4 cities is tall.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

For me 4 cities is tall.

Are you putting off infrastructure for wonders?

 

[robincox]

Try to get a quick national college.
Grow your cities a lot.
Your capital should reach over 20 population, so you can run specialists. You can help with internal food traderoutes.

I wouldn't disregard your infrastructure to get too quickly to writing and education. yes, aim for it, but dont forget granary, acueducts and other things that will improve your city and give you more population and specialists and better construction times.

I have never (what I can recall) got a city to grow as big as 20, I remember once one of my cities growing to about 17. And with specialists, it would be even harder to grow that big cities.

 

[VainoValkea]

Well that's your problem then, no wonder you're not getting lots of science. A tall empire should be competitive by the amount of population even if behind in amount of cities.