Benefactor
Beneficial
I think the difference is that while both companies can prevent used games, only one of them said they were actually going to.
New Xbox basically kills off used games
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I think the difference is that while both companies can prevent used games, only one of them said they were actually going to.
Well the XB1 used to allow selling used digital games, but since people whined about how much they liked discs, now neither console does.
azzaman333
meh
All Shuhei Yoshida has said is that selling games is possible, as are rental services (both of which were and presumably still are true for the One).
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Did you not quote the terms of service that say the following?
Shuhei Yoshida confirmed that does not mean what you are pretending it means. Sony has given permission to sell games, trade games, etc. This terms of service refers to illegally reselling products, or otherwise doing something with it that you're not supposed to. DVDs have the exact same policy.
Shu answers clearly, but no one is listening. Ergo, reading comprehension sucks up in here.
Mise
isle of lucy
So Gamestop and others have received express authorisation to resell games from Sony and all other games publishers? I know I haven't received express authorisation to resell games from any publisher.
Additionally, I don't see how this situation is any different to the Xbox One.
Additionally, I don't see how this situation is any different to the Xbox One.
Yeah I agree Mise. It's a little devious considering how they joined in on the MS pile-on after their flub on this issue. Shuhei's comments aside, because he is not the arbiter of what the terms of service means.
What do you think I'm pretending it means?
I didn't say anything, I simply quoted the terms of service.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
As have the players. These exact clauses existed in PS2 and PS3 TOS in Europe, too. You know that right? Guess what you have always been able to freely do? That's right.
Shuhei Yoshida is one of the most influential and important people in Sony, as it relates to the Playstation franchise. He is the President of Worldwide Studios, those people that oversee game development and first party developers? You know, maybe he knows a thing or two about his own product? Maybe Sony hasn't had to backtrack like Microsoft has because they never included limitations on reselling or buying/swapping used games? I dunno, maybe I'm being optimistic here... oh wait, no, I'm being intelligent.
There is nothing new in this TOS that hasn't been in there, in relations to buying, selling, or loaning games, since the days of the PS1. You people are trying to make this into a "XBOX WAS FRAMED" scandal, when Xbox publicly flipped the script when Sony didn't do the same thing they were doing. If you think Sony would jeopardize one of the high points of their marketing campaign days before launch you're insane. PS4 isn't region locked, these TOS cover all countries, not just the US, and that means weird EU regulations must be addressed. Sony isn't going to prevent you from playing used games or selling yours to retailers.
You deliberately quoted a misleading article to feed your own fanboyism.
You knew what you were doing.
Sony answered concerns about these misleading articles. People ignore them. Do whatever you want, but don't lie about it.
I only quoted the terms of service, you're saying the terms of service are deliberately misleading?
Have I been factually incorrect about anything?
I'm not sure what fanboyism you're referring to, I don't plan on purchasing any of the XB1, PS4 or Wii U.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
https://twitter.com/yosp/status/400129434264805377
Shuhei Yoshida says you're being misleading.
The terms of service sure as hell don't mean what you think they mean.https://twitter.com/yosp/status/400129434264805377
Shuhei Yoshida says you're being misleading.
Appropriate course of action if you write terms of service say you can't do X, but you actually intend to allow X?
a) Change the terms of service.
b) Have some random employee post to twitter saying that you actually can do X.
What do you think this means?
Microsoft was going to explicitly allow the reselling of software downloads, Sony explicitly does not allow it, and has no method in place for it to happen. (And MS and Sony now seem to be in the exact same position.)
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Have you ever read a terms of service by any company? They all reserve the rights to royally screw you if they want to. It is called covering all the bases. Corporations have to do it. The TOS you quote is related to the European Union, and is part of that protection, but in no way means they are withholding authorization. In fact, the executives of the company are specifically saying they ARE NOT withholding, and never will.
Shuhei Yoshida is the farthest thing from a random employee. You labeling him that has proven you know absolutely nothing about the Playstation platform or who runs what. If you go into a restaurant and have a problem with the menu, you talk to the manager. Shuhei Yoshida is the manager, not the fry cook, not the waiter, the manager.
Sony Repeats Its PS4 Used Game Message
Mise
isle of lucy
I actually can't believe how this conversation has gone. The fact that it was in the TOS for a long time doesn't make it any less stupid. It just means that the TOS has been stupid for a long time. You seem to admit that the TOS is stupid, yet you continue to defend it? I really don't understand it at all. It's a real head-scratcher.
I certainly haven't received express authorisation from Sony or any games publishers that I'm allowed to resell any games, and I doubt I ever will. The fact that Sony aren't enforcing a particularly stupid part of their TOS does not make the TOS any less stupid.
I certainly haven't received express authorisation from Sony or any games publishers that I'm allowed to resell any games, and I doubt I ever will. The fact that Sony aren't enforcing a particularly stupid part of their TOS does not make the TOS any less stupid.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Every TOS has things like this in it, for everything. There is bizarre stuff in the TOS of the web browser you're using right now that would make you think twice about using it. Secondly, you HAVE received express permission from Sony. Them saying you can do it is legally binding.
Mise
isle of lucy
They didn't say "permission", they said "authorisation". They didn't say "by Sony and by nobody else", they said "if the publisher is another company, additionally by the publisher". And they didn't say "via a tweet", they said "expressly".
If Sony are, by that tweet and by their marketing material, authorising basically everyone to be able to resell used games, then the term in the TOS is useless and should be removed. Why leave it in if it has been supposedly nullified in its entirety by a tweet?
Finally, I shouldn't need Sony's permission to sell a game that I have bought and paid for. That's the entire point of the whole Xbox used games fiasco. I shouldn't need to be told via a tweet that I'm allowed to sell my games. You seem to be completely missing the point of why people were so angry at Microsoft (and various publishers) for banning used game sales.
If Sony are, by that tweet and by their marketing material, authorising basically everyone to be able to resell used games, then the term in the TOS is useless and should be removed. Why leave it in if it has been supposedly nullified in its entirety by a tweet?
Finally, I shouldn't need Sony's permission to sell a game that I have bought and paid for. That's the entire point of the whole Xbox used games fiasco. I shouldn't need to be told via a tweet that I'm allowed to sell my games. You seem to be completely missing the point of why people were so angry at Microsoft (and various publishers) for banning used game sales.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Yes, but these people don't understand that literally every TOS on the planet is designed like this. It isn't worth arguing when they don't understand the basics of the industry, or the way corporations and corporate law works.
It's the usual CEO/head of a corporation saying "oh that's just legal mumbo jumbo don't listen to it" when in reality, when it matters, i.e. when you've got a lawsuit on your desk, or a cease and desist in your email, or a scary letter from Sony's lawyers in your mailbox, or more realistically, your PSN account locked out, the TOS governs. Not some CEO's tweets. Like Mise and Zelig said, if it's meaningless language then don't put it in there. But as long as they have it in there they reserve that right and that's a binding contract.
This isn't fanboy-ism. Everyone's points are fair and I think a review of this thread shows most in here have a pretty balanced perspective on these consoles. I am still more inclined to buy a PS4 over an Xbox One at this point. Nonetheless it is a head-scratching move. I think what it really amounts to is one hand (corporate) not knowing what the other hand (legal team in UK) is doing. Rarely are CEO's of mega corporations involved in legal minutiae. It just so happens this minutiae got noticed since it happened to expressly contradict something they themselves made a big deal of promising not to do.
This isn't fanboy-ism. Everyone's points are fair and I think a review of this thread shows most in here have a pretty balanced perspective on these consoles. I am still more inclined to buy a PS4 over an Xbox One at this point. Nonetheless it is a head-scratching move. I think what it really amounts to is one hand (corporate) not knowing what the other hand (legal team in UK) is doing. Rarely are CEO's of mega corporations involved in legal minutiae. It just so happens this minutiae got noticed since it happened to expressly contradict something they themselves made a big deal of promising not to do.
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