Title says it. I've been winning consistently on Immortal yet I still don't really know what to look for in a starting location. Obviously prioritize lux spots but what about the balance between hammers and food? How important are coastal regions? What about hills, rivers, and mountains? What would you consider the "perfect" spot to settle a new city?
Where do you settle?
- Thread starter MrNude
- Start date
KingKong76
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2015
- Messages
- 240
personally I look for 2 different lux, hill, river, montain and coast in that order...
you need the early smilies and for any reasons I prefer to prioritize early hammers (hill( VS later groth and prod (river).. I feel like you have more solutions later in the game...
As for coast, I think you can found a later city on the coast for further exploration, trade routes and military fleet needs and usualy you will have a better mix of prod and groth tiles if you capital is entierly inland.
Is that optimum? I dont know... but I looking for more seasoned player answers here...
you need the early smilies and for any reasons I prefer to prioritize early hammers (hill( VS later groth and prod (river).. I feel like you have more solutions later in the game...
As for coast, I think you can found a later city on the coast for further exploration, trade routes and military fleet needs and usualy you will have a better mix of prod and groth tiles if you capital is entierly inland.
Is that optimum? I dont know... but I looking for more seasoned player answers here...
budweiser
King of the Beers
I like a hill thats next to a 3 food tile and also fresh water.
consentient
Domination!
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Messages
- 3,361
Production is my watchword. I want hills, quarries and forests. Luxes are nice, but I usually only build 2/3 cities and capture the rest.
Multiple river tiles is key if possible (hydroplant is worth giving up settling on a hill for easily)
Also, flat freshwater tiles (from lakes or oases) are ok too.
Think about where your expansions are going to go and count at least 5-6, ideally 7 tiles away. This way cities don't have to clash about who gets to work which tile.
Coast is good only when there are several sea luxes or resources like fish/atoll; if it's clear you can't create a 2nd coastal city, don't bother.
Look for pantheon "theming"; quite often the map generator will pair wine with incense, or pearls with gems, or wheat with citruses, or buffalos with elephants and boars/foxes. The more "theming" tiles you have in your capitol, the more ridiculously strong your pantheon will be if you manage to get it. For example, say, normally I'd value a salt tile over a flood plain citrus, but if my location has 4 wheats, then I value the citrus more.
Look for wheat, deer, and bananas. These resources are the best early game (deer and bananas won't be that good later but riverside wheat is awesome the whole game). Avoid jungle and blank desert tiles unless your terrain is godly enough you have a good shot at Petra.
Have at least one lux within 3 tiles. It's OK to have a lux in the 4th ring because your capitol acquires tiles more quickly than other cities, but 5 is maximum; your borders will not extend 6 tiles away unless you use a GG. Multiple copies of luxes are nice for early gold and is your main income source early game, but if your city's first/2nd ring tiles are awesome (or you are Shoshone) and you don't need to buy tiles, gold is less important so sometimes I get by with only one lux copy in my capitol.
Don't be tempted by salt or marble to give up hydroplant, or otherwise a much better spot. The only thing I'd give up hydroplant for is probably Uluru or any faith wonder. (religion is about the only thing that comes close to compensating for the loss of 20+ hammers late game)
On Immortal, don't settle for bad starting terrain, explore and hopefully some AIs have better lands for you. You can forward settle them easily on immortal.
Also look for choke points and how you can block off a plot of land from enemy settlers for you yourself to settle later. I love Inca because of this.
Otherwise, it's on a case-by-base basis.
Also, flat freshwater tiles (from lakes or oases) are ok too.
Think about where your expansions are going to go and count at least 5-6, ideally 7 tiles away. This way cities don't have to clash about who gets to work which tile.
Coast is good only when there are several sea luxes or resources like fish/atoll; if it's clear you can't create a 2nd coastal city, don't bother.
Look for pantheon "theming"; quite often the map generator will pair wine with incense, or pearls with gems, or wheat with citruses, or buffalos with elephants and boars/foxes. The more "theming" tiles you have in your capitol, the more ridiculously strong your pantheon will be if you manage to get it. For example, say, normally I'd value a salt tile over a flood plain citrus, but if my location has 4 wheats, then I value the citrus more.
Look for wheat, deer, and bananas. These resources are the best early game (deer and bananas won't be that good later but riverside wheat is awesome the whole game). Avoid jungle and blank desert tiles unless your terrain is godly enough you have a good shot at Petra.
Have at least one lux within 3 tiles. It's OK to have a lux in the 4th ring because your capitol acquires tiles more quickly than other cities, but 5 is maximum; your borders will not extend 6 tiles away unless you use a GG. Multiple copies of luxes are nice for early gold and is your main income source early game, but if your city's first/2nd ring tiles are awesome (or you are Shoshone) and you don't need to buy tiles, gold is less important so sometimes I get by with only one lux copy in my capitol.
Don't be tempted by salt or marble to give up hydroplant, or otherwise a much better spot. The only thing I'd give up hydroplant for is probably Uluru or any faith wonder. (religion is about the only thing that comes close to compensating for the loss of 20+ hammers late game)
On Immortal, don't settle for bad starting terrain, explore and hopefully some AIs have better lands for you. You can forward settle them easily on immortal.
Also look for choke points and how you can block off a plot of land from enemy settlers for you yourself to settle later. I love Inca because of this.
Otherwise, it's on a case-by-base basis.
phillipwyllie
Wannabe Deity
I would suggest you already know the answer to this
For me its rivers and hills, I want to settle next to the river.
Starting Location
I want cattle and wheat, with gold/silver nearby preferably
Petra City
Thanks to the ICL-Egypt I've been thinking about Petra a lot and would try for it if there are desert marble/stone/sheep with a lake nearby. If this is on the coast then a cargo-ship is sent asap with many workers to improve the stone/sheep/farms. If inland then decisions, decisions, decisions.....
I would suggest you already know the answer to this
Haha well, not entirely. All too often I settle in cities based off lux and food (especially bananas), then realize too late that there's like no workable hammers. I call them "crappy banana cities". My issue is finding a solid balance of food and hammers I guess.
LordBalkoth
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2014
- Messages
- 525
This is only true for Tradition. For Liberty, simply having cities be 4 tiles between them (so 2 out from each city) and having most of those tiles be decent is sufficient. Two rings gives you 6 first ring tiles and 12 second ring tiles, which already takes 18 citizens. That's not counting (scientist) specialists either, which means you employ 22 population through just the ground tiles and 4 science slots. It'll be a rare day when you have a liberty city that's larger than 22 population (and not your capital).
Closer together cities also reinforces religion more and makes it cost less to connect them via roads.
Acken
Deity
Perfect city is:
coastal with little water
next to a mountain
on a hill
next to a river and many fresh water tiles
with woods to chop
with multiple luxuries especially mining luxuries (gems !) or salts !
with multiple quarries and/or pasturages and granary ressources
and many desert hills and oasis
and I guess a good natural wonder too
coastal with little water
next to a mountain
on a hill
next to a river and many fresh water tiles
with woods to chop
with multiple luxuries especially mining luxuries (gems !) or salts !
with multiple quarries and/or pasturages and granary ressources
and many desert hills and oasis
and I guess a good natural wonder too
Let's be a bit more specific.
On coastal desert hill with river system running through 10 tiles of desert hills/flood plains
3 salt+1 marble
beside a mountain
2 fish and GBR in the water
3 stone on plains.
that's never gonna happen.
but apart from luxes I think the city tile itself should be prioritized on a hill in case the AI has funny ideas. Then it's mountain, river, and bonus resources in that order of significance. also try not to settle in the middle of the jungle....
On coastal desert hill with river system running through 10 tiles of desert hills/flood plains
3 salt+1 marble
beside a mountain
2 fish and GBR in the water
3 stone on plains.
that's never gonna happen.
but apart from luxes I think the city tile itself should be prioritized on a hill in case the AI has funny ideas. Then it's mountain, river, and bonus resources in that order of significance. also try not to settle in the middle of the jungle....
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Well, I'd like a:
3 fish coast
3 salts
river with 3 wheat
mountain
2 horses
at least 1 iron
marble and 2 stones
3 fish coast
3 salts
river with 3 wheat
mountain
2 horses
at least 1 iron
marble and 2 stones
Are you asking about starting location or spots for expos? I think those are two very different things!
Starting spot is up to RNG. So are you asking about re-rolling or how many turns to wander?
I find the starting spots to always be very good, so I almost always settle on turn 0 or 1. If you only play games with perfect starts you might as well drop the difficulty down a notch.
One has a lot more control over the expos, but the availability of rivers and mountains is luck. So try and do the best with the dirt you have been dealt. Maybe post screen shots for suggestions?
My first expo / second city might be on very attractive flat land, but I have found that my second expo / third city has to be on hill so as not to slow down timing for NC.
Assuming there is 1 or two luxuries around:
Priority #1 is to touch a mountain for an observatory.
Priority #2 is to be on a coast for OP Cargoships
Priority #3 is to have production nearby,(hills or forests)
Priority#4 is to have a river
Priority#5 is to be on a hill
An absolutely ideal location would be touching a mountain and river on a hill, on the coast with lush food tiles along the river to farm and hills all around for production. Preferably flood plains and desert hills for desert folklore and petra.
Most of the time you have to sacrifice one to get the other such as leaving a river to touch a mountain etc.. This is not a tough choice unless I'm Montezuma who benefits from rivers dramatically.
Priority #1 is to touch a mountain for an observatory.
Priority #2 is to be on a coast for OP Cargoships
Priority #3 is to have production nearby,(hills or forests)
Priority#4 is to have a river
Priority#5 is to be on a hill
An absolutely ideal location would be touching a mountain and river on a hill, on the coast with lush food tiles along the river to farm and hills all around for production. Preferably flood plains and desert hills for desert folklore and petra.
Most of the time you have to sacrifice one to get the other such as leaving a river to touch a mountain etc.. This is not a tough choice unless I'm Montezuma who benefits from rivers dramatically.
Mountain (or NW) for observatory is very, very helpful -- but not as important as having at least one coastal city I would argue.
If my 2nd expo / 3rd city cannot be on a hill (for early hammers towards library) and I don’t expect to be able to cash rush a library, then I will usually reorg for two city NC. Settling on hills made the early game much easier for me. I was really surprise how noticeable is the difference.
If my 2nd expo / 3rd city cannot be on a hill (for early hammers towards library) and I don’t expect to be able to cash rush a library, then I will usually reorg for two city NC. Settling on hills made the early game much easier for me. I was really surprise how noticeable is the difference.
tribefaninnc
Chieftain
I don't think I ever put that much thought in having a mountain nearby the capital. In fact, I always thought it was bad since it is a dead tile. I guess I tend to focus on how the starting land will help at the start. But now that you mention it, it is a good investment in the future. I guess I ideally it would be in the second ring so that it isn't cramping your start.
Good advice!
Good advice!
Mountain in second ring is good for unlocking a couple wonders, but it does not allow observatory. Mountain for cap is mostly up to the RNG. How much are you going to wander in the beginning just for that? The nearest mountain (or river, or coast) might well be 6+ hexes away, and it's luck (or reloading) if you go in the right direction.
But I know, deliberately picking a dead tile? You only start with six! The fact is you will never be working them all, even end game. Coastal spots have a similar issue, which is to say that it really is not a problem at all.
But I know, deliberately picking a dead tile? You only start with six! The fact is you will never be working them all, even end game. Coastal spots have a similar issue, which is to say that it really is not a problem at all.
I guess both. Do you or anyone else here have an image of a good city location? Starting or expo, either way I'm pretty bad with figuring out where to start.
OP, every new game starts you in a good city location. People have shared the heuristics they use. But you might want to try this:
I remember a very good article from a while back that talked about how to scout with your starting warrior before moving (or not) your settler. I could not find it just now, but maybe someone else here can point you to it?
It is never terrible to settle in place, so do that for now because it is easy to waste turns or make things worse. Scout around, and then post a screen shot to this thread asking where (and why) to put expos. Spirited debate will ensue, and you will learn from a live game. Please be encouraged to do this a few times if you like.
It is probably not literally infinite, but I am sure there are millions of “good city locations”. Things also depend on your civ. For example with Celts, you really want cities that touch three forests.
- From the Civ5 - Strategy & Tips forum main page, click “Search this Forum” then “Advance Search” in the drop down.
- Enter “settle” in the “Keyword(s)” and change “Search Entire Posts” dropdown to “Search Titles Only”.
- Click “Search Now” button.
I remember a very good article from a while back that talked about how to scout with your starting warrior before moving (or not) your settler. I could not find it just now, but maybe someone else here can point you to it?
It is never terrible to settle in place, so do that for now because it is easy to waste turns or make things worse. Scout around, and then post a screen shot to this thread asking where (and why) to put expos. Spirited debate will ensue, and you will learn from a live game. Please be encouraged to do this a few times if you like.
It is probably not literally infinite, but I am sure there are millions of “good city locations”. Things also depend on your civ. For example with Celts, you really want cities that touch three forests.
CalmProto
Chieftain
in a van down by the river...
Okay, on a hill, near a river or coastline.
Luxury within two to three hexes is fine.
Okay, on a hill, near a river or coastline.
Luxury within two to three hexes is fine.
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