Germany Video

[CaiusDrewart]

Oh no, Germany got the dreaded "combat bonus against city-states" bonus. Hopefully that will be more useful than it was for Civ V Mongolia. At least with the warmonger penalty reduced in importance, aggressing against city-states should be a slightly more feasible strategy. I suspect, however, that befriending them will typically be more profitable.

I can't see the U-Boat being at all powerful, but it is historical and new to Civ (have we ever had a unique submarine before?). An additional gold bonus for pillaging trade routes might have been more flavorful than the deep water combat bonus.

However, I wish Germany had gotten a land UU. It just doesn't feel right for this Civ not to have one. There are a million good options, from the Teutonic Knight to the Doppelsoldner to the Uhlan to the Needle Gunner to the WWI Stormtrooper to the Panzer to the Leopard 2. I would've gladly scrapped the city-state combat bonus for any of those.

The other elements of the UU do seem quite powerful, though, and some of them last all game. I think ThomasClark's instincts are probably right:

Ranking the importance of their bonuses, I would put:
1) Extra district vs what's normally allowed
2) Extra military policy slot
3) Hansa
4) City-state combat bonus
5) U-Boat

 

[Scaramanga]

By the way does anybody know if submarines/U-Boot can pillage harbor districts?

I would think so. If they don't have a navy to fight against they should at least be able to pillage. The whole point of the U-Boat program was to cut off the allies from Atlantic supplies. I think the Uboat is a bit of a nerf compared to a panzer but it also prompts Germany to escalate the war to different continents.

 

[TheRaven476]

Yeah my bad. I'm not sure why I think I heard the max districts per city is 3. Weird. Maybe i just leaped from an alternate reality where that design choice was made. Oh well.

Still it is a decent benefit, now it's just "Unknown" how major it is. We don't know how high populations are going to get to. We might not see the old Civ style cities in the 30s to 40s that would be needed to max out districts. Although that might be the case, if so who knows. But if we're say almost never going to get above 20 pop, that extra district can be pretty nice. Also like people said, getting say a science AND religious district up right at the start of the game without having to wait for the extra pop might be a huge boost. + More districts, helps with things that have district adjacency bonuses, and what a shock, our unique district has that. Being mid game and having a nice harbor, commercial, industrial district all stacked around each other not having to worry about city pop is nice.

I think it might also help with needing to think about preparing an Aqueduct district less. Some people might get to the point where "Crap my growth is stunted! I'm tons of turns away from getting another district, I wish I built a growth district earlier". Germany is less likely to have that bottleneck scenario because they can build more districts at lower population levels. Minor and situational, but there are lots of cascading benefits.

I really really really like the bonus military slot as well. I'm really under the idea that you want a mid amount of slots spread out evenly. Like I said earlier, there is a diminishing return for cards since not every card is equally useful in every scenario. Some will be less useful. The 5th most useful military policy is almost certainly less useful than the 2nd most useful economic policy.

Classical republic seems great. Getting 2 economic slots and not loosing a military slot (Most likely for barbarian bonuses)is sweet. And oh... look at democracy. Bonus from district projects? Which Germany will have more of than anyone? Seems synergistic, and they essentially get double the military policies over other democratic nations.

Edit I originally read it as "District Production", I see now it's district "Projects" which I believe are the things were you basically turn production into SCience/Gold/Religion/Culture/Food/Production or whatever. So much less useful. I'm starting to think Communism might be sweet. Better production bonuses. Same military slots as a normal nations fascism but with more economic slots. Since Communism gets it's eureka moment from 3 factories this will be very very likely to get without trying for Germany.

Ironically seems like fascism would be the least useful since that 5th military slot might get ridiculously situational. Maybe the later military slots are just that good that losing 2 economic slots make up for it. I just feel like The second and third best economic slots are just going to be too useful.

 

[Thormodr]

Overall, Germany looks pretty good. Some pretty nifty abilities.

I'm not an expert on medieval armour, though, but ol' Fred looks like he has a bit of a pot belly. Perhaps he'll tell the city states to "Get in mah belly!"

 

[Lord Lakely]

This Civ is the sheer definition of "War Machine". Defo giving this one a try in one of my first games (the CS combat bonus is meh, but who says you HAVE to attack CSs? If you go to war, you'll fight CS units anyway)

I'm intrigued that AACHEN, not Berlin is the capital. They're going for a HRE-inspired Germany here city-wise and I quite like that. (same with British England and Ptolemaïc Egypt btw)

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Edit I originally read it as "District Production", I see now it's district "Projects" which I believe are the things were you basically turn production into SCience/Gold/Religion/Culture/Food/Production or whatever. So much less useful. I'm starting to think Communism might be sweet. Better production bonuses. Same militarty slots as a normal nations fascism but with more economic slots.

Ironically seems like fascism would be the least useful since that 5th military slot might get ridiculously situational.

Thoe Projects give you Great People Points (a nice boost) as well as I think a flat boost to something. i.e Street Carnival provides 2 amenities when produced. So they are an expanded version of the Converting Hammers to Science/Culture/Etc.

 

[Nightsong]

This Civ is the sheer definition of "War Machine". Defo giving this one a try in one of my first games (the CS combat bonus is meh, but who says you HAVE to attack CSs? If you go to war, you'll fight CS units anyway)

I'm intrigued that AACHEN, not Berlin is the capital. They're going for a HRE-inspired Germany here city-wise and I quite like that. (same with British England and Ptolemaïc Egypt btw)

We know that players (and by extension most likely the AI as well) can levy a city-states military if they are on friendly enough terms. Germany's ability is against city-state units and not the city-state itself. Depending on how strong the bonus is, it gives Germany an extra defense against enemy city-state units during a war.

 

[Scaramanga]

We know that players (and by extension most likely the AI as well) can levy a city-states military if they are on friendly enough terms. Germany's ability is against city-state units and not the city-state itself. Depending on how strong the bonus is, it gives Germany an extra defense against enemy city-state units during a war.

Yeah, and I might be more inclined to use Raid and Sack against a citystate rather than giving myself another city to manage.

 

[Depravo]

I'm intrigued that AACHEN, not Berlin is the capital. They're going for a HRE-inspired Germany here city-wise and I quite like that. (same with British England and Ptolemaïc Egypt btw)

That's a change I don't like. For the last several centuries Aachen has been a large town on the fringe of Germany overshadowed by nearby cities both sides of the frontier. It only really counted as a power centre for a couple of centuries, and was never a very large city. On the other hand there were prominent cities in the HRE that are still important today, such as Frankfurt.

Seems like having the capital of England be Winchester or France Soissons.

 

[Krajzen]

I think Barbarossa will have an agenda similar to something like this:

"Wants to dominate all city states on his continent, by diplomacy or force. Dislikes other civs taking them* from him."

*-either allying or conquering

 

[Cyon]

Easy to rename Aachen to Berlin though, which I will do when I play Germany

 

[Omega124]

This U Boat UU is bothering me on a fundamental level, way more than it rightfully should be. Like, I can't stop thinking how much of a terrible decision it was to make this Germany's UU.

1. It just feels wrong to change one of the few UUs that has been around since the adoption of unique units in civ 3. The panzer just feels like a core part of the German civ, much like Gandhi and his nukes are to India. Like, I understand the desire to keep things fresh, but you shouldn't change something that was core to the civ for three games without good reason, which leads me to 2,

2. Germany was historically a continental, land power. It famously never had a true overseas empire, a point of contention which directly lead to WW1 in an attempt to gain one. Even before unification, the main German nations failed to make any substantial maritime traditions, again sticking to continental European affairs. Having a naval UU with no land UU misses the point of where Germany historically excelled at, and it feels wrong for Germany to have an intrinsically better modern navy than most civs when the development of U Boats in WW1 was more of a response to how utterly behind they were to Britain and France in the whole naval empire business.

3. The U Boats were more of a weapon of economics/terror, rather than a direct military unit. Submarines were good at hitting unprotected convoys and disrupting shipping, not at attacking enemy combat ships directly (especially when ASW was developed to counteract the rise of the U Boats). Their bonus therefore doesn't make historical sense to me; German submarines weren't any better at attacking ships in deep water than regular submarines; in fact in both world wars the British were in nominal control of the North Sea/Atlantic, not the Germans.

4. The U boats, particularly in WW2, were also more of a weapon of desperation due to an abysmal surface fleet more so than "this is the best possible naval combat craft we can develop". I understand the context for U boats were different in WW1, when it was more testing experimental technology, but the UU itself appears to be a WW2 U boat rather than a 1. Either way, a heavy submarine fleet ended up being ineffective in both world wars, and to this day no navy subscribes to the wolfpack styled doctrine of German U boats.

5. All of that would be excused if it was actually a good unit, which I don't even think it will be. Judging from experience of previous civ games, naval combat primarly takes place on the shorelines, where coastal cities and landings take place in. I can't ever recall taking part of a pitched naval battle that happened in open waters; there's simply no reason to move a defensive fleet into open waters, when the only thing you should be worried about is protecting your own cities. Likewise, I never seen an offensive fleet intercepted, because there's no real advantage not defending in your territory where you can heal up faster and reinforce the fleet quicker. It seems like the devs thought it was a cool idea, but didn't really sit down and think if the unit was actually any good or not.

Like I said, this is bothering me on a level more than it really should. It's just... some of the other UU choices seemed to be different just for the sake of being different, and in some cases, like China, it works, but it did not work here and its just frustrating for me to see that.

 

[isau]

Kinda surprised by comments about the submarine unit being weak, honestly. I used subs a lot in Civ V. They are incredible units for snatching trade routes right out from unsuspecting enemies, and their ability to sink battleships is very useful. I hear they are amazing in PVP in particular, as I imagine any stealth unit would be. They're also nice for parking right outside an enemy capital (hello, Venice!) to ensure they NEVER get a sea trade route or the ability to recover a naval presence again.

 

[j51]

That's a change I don't like. For the last several centuries Aachen has been a large town on the fringe of Germany overshadowed by nearby cities both sides of the frontier. It only really counted as a power centre for a couple of centuries, and was never a very large city. On the other hand there were prominent cities in the HRE that are still important today, such as Frankfurt.

Seems like having the capital of England be Winchester or France Soissons.

Yeah. It was really only a center of power under the Carolinians. By the time of the HRE, it was simply the site of coronation. It's more like making the French capital Reims than Soissons, in that sense. The thing was, there was no administrative center of the HRE when Freddy B. reigned. Frankfurt, though, would be a better choice as per your suggestions, and I'll probably mod it to that. It was where the imperial elections took place and was a much more important city even in the middle ages, let alone today.

I do really hope that they are tying the city lists to the leaders means they will officially introduce more leaders for some civs. I don't mind Ra-Khadet/Alexandria being Egypt's capital under Cleo, or Delhi being India's under Gandhi, but only if we get new leaders with capitals in Memphis or Thebes, and Pataliputra respectively.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Kinda surprised by comments about the submarine unit being weak, honestly. I used subs a lot in Civ V. They are incredible units for snatching trade routes right out from unsuspecting enemies, and their ability to sink battleships is very useful. I hear they are amazing in PVP in particular, as I imagine any stealth unit would be. They're also nice for parking right outside an enemy capital (hello, Venice!) to ensure they NEVER get a sea trade route or the ability to recover a naval presence again.

Subs are indeed powerful against battleships, and you're right that they probably find their niche in MP games. But against the AI, why would you ever use them? Just use battleships, which will rule the seas equally easily and also have the very useful ability to terrorize enemy land units and coastal cities.

 

[King Jason]

Its a big bonus.... however not as big as the op thought.

The op thought cities were limited to 3 districts for the whole game.

Missed that part. Yea, it's not that good.

2. Germany was historically a continental, land power

I think this is the major point against the U boat as a UU. I personally love the addition of more naval flair any chance they get (hey, brazil) but I don't think a Naval UU fits with the "idea" of Germany all that well, despite their historical use of such craft.

That said, I welcome it nonetheless because I have a boat-bias.

More boats!

 

[DeutschDachs]

I like the Uboats! I just kind of wish we would have gotten a Teutonic Knight or a Prussian Grenadier as well since I'm greedy

 

[Gokudo01]

Missed that part. Yea, it's not that good.



I think this is the major point against the U boat as a UU. I personally love the addition of more naval flair any chance they get (hey, brazil) but I don't think a Naval UU fits with the "idea" of Germany all that well, despite their historical use of such craft.

That said, I welcome it nonetheless because I have a boat-bias.

More boats!

wait, is it true ? cities can't have more than 3 districts !!?

 

[Nightsong]

That's a change I don't like. For the last several centuries Aachen has been a large town on the fringe of Germany overshadowed by nearby cities both sides of the frontier. It only really counted as a power centre for a couple of centuries, and was never a very large city. On the other hand there were prominent cities in the HRE that are still important today, such as Frankfurt.

Seems like having the capital of England be Winchester or France Soissons.

From a historical perspective with Frederick it makes some sense. He was crowned King of Germany in Aachen. And then there is this historical note: "over the next 500 years, most kings of Germany destined to reign over the Holy Roman Empire were crowned in Aachen". So, considering that Frederick Barbarossa is being styled as both the King of Germany and part of the Holy Roman Empire I get where Firaxis is coming from.

Similar to how in Civ V, Egypt's capital was Thebes but in Civ VI, it is Râ-Kedet (modern day Alexandria) which was the capitol of the Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Egypt. In some cases, the capital city of the civilization seems to be more directly tied to the leader that has been picked.

 

[j51]

From a historical perspective with Frederick it makes some sense. He was crowned King of Germany in Aachen. And then there is this historical note: "over the next 500 years, most kings of Germany destined to reign over the Holy Roman Empire were crowned in Aachen". So, considering that Frederick Barbarossa is being styled as both the King of Germany and part of the Holy Roman Empire I get where Firaxis is coming from.

Glad you read this:

Yeah. It was really only a center of power under the Carolinians. By the time of the HRE, it was simply the site of coronation. It's more like making the French capital Reims than Soissons, in that sense. The thing was, there was no administrative center of the HRE when Freddy B. reigned. Frankfurt, though, would be a better choice as per your suggestions, and I'll probably mod it to that. It was where the imperial elections took place and was a much more important city even in the middle ages, let alone today.