Why ever pick Ancestral Hall over Warlord's Throne

[Sostratus]

The free builder is right on city settle and enables turn 1 chops sometimes. You just settled territory, it’s unimproved and they give you the solution. Plus 50% settler build rate in the GP city which can be great efficiency paired with magnus and or that +50% card. The reward is instant and concentrated where you need it.

the Warlord throne bonus can be larger in production terms but it’s delayed until you actually capture something, and it comes later in the game. Plus it’s equal to one turn of production in each city across your empire. (20% for 5 turns is 100% for one turn.) One turn! The reward is spread out over time (5 turns, in the future) and is dispersed across your empire. If it was like, get 20% of your empire production as a instant chop in the city with the throne, even though the overall effect would be just 1/5 of now, I think it would be a lot more impactful due to concentration.

 

[Victoria]

I think it would be a lot more impactful due to concentration.

So for an SV I have a city producing 100 production late game
+20 production for warlords
+10 for Colonial Taxes
+10 Amunsden-Scott
+15 for Casa de Contratación

That warlords is a nice concentration and I must say I do notice it when I play with warlords.

The reality is to get ancestral hall you need to get to PP and then build it.
Just how many settlers do you get out with AH?
If you delay getting settlers out for AH that is hurting you.
The 50% is not as much as you think and the first 50% card at Early empire is worth more and normally enough for most settlers.

Do not get me wrong, AH is great but it is easy to get over excited, its all about the builder and warlords gets each 5 turn builder a turn earlier

 

[Victoria]

@Lily_Lancer , just checked. Both apply after the governor is established. The the -2 loyalty weakens the governor while establishing

 

[MrRadar]

AH can be great in catching-up scenarios for example, after that stall due to getting religion and then having tons of faith for mass settler buy during golden monumentality. Then those free workers are really nice. Some maps (like 7 seas or inland sea) will likely give you lots of uncontested land for settling. But it creates some extra hassle because you want to have that +2 worker charges card when you settle.

WT is much better if settling space is contested and you expand by conquest and/or go for DomV.

I tend not to pick ACh somehow, although I kinda want to try ~7-city Indonesia or Khmer or Inca game and see how it goes.
____
Edit: and I could not vote because of the word "always".

 

[Lily_Lancer]

@Lily_Lancer , just checked. Both apply after the governor is established. The the -2 loyalty weakens the governor while establishing

Okay. Then it returns to useless in my games. If you need to establish to make full use, a simple "neutralize governor" will bring you down.

 

[Zdarg]

“Always” is definitely not the right wording in my case but I most often take the “third one” : Audience chamber.

I find the additional housing strong and I tend to go fairly wide on governor selection anyway + it remains more relevant throughout the game
Also I tend not to play domination games because I don’t enjoy them so warlord’s throne is something I almost never pick

Additional housing in 7 cities at most? 8 if Ottomans? Versus 25-30 free buiders?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Additional housing in 7 cities at most? 8 if Ottomans? Versus 25-30 free buiders?

25-30..... I never experience that except for score victory. If you want to have that much then a settler will cost 830~980 production, as much as a wonder.

7 cities at most? 8 if Ottomans? Yes. However its bonus only applies to established governors. You don't place Amani in your own city, Magnus is always traveling around. So you basically benefit from Pingala, Reyna, Moksha, Victor and Liang. However except for Pingala and Liang and maybe Reyna, if you appoint one of the other 4 are only appointed when you need loyalty, however Audience Chamber reduce the precious loyalty before these governors fully establish.

So you basically only benefit from 2~3 governors instead of 7~8. However even the remaining 2~3 are vulnerable since AIs like to use "neutralize governor" to turn them down.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I usually go for Ancestral Hall. If I know I'm in a tight space and will not expand a lot I'll go for Audience Chamber.
Haven't gone for Warlord's Throne yet, but if I ever play as a warmonger I will.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I never use chamber. I only get 4 governors until the late game and one hangs out in a city-state. And I dislike micro-managing governors, so they tend to stay put in my innermost cities. I don't want that loyalty penalty on a majority of my cities, particularly edge cities.

I don't do a lot of warmongering. If I do, it's mostly before in the Ancient Era before the Diplomatic penalties become severe, which precedes the Throne. So it is not valuable to me.

Which leaves Ancestor. Now, I have typically founded several core cities before it is completed, but it still gives me a handful of builders in peripheral cities, which makes it worthwhile.

 

[Zdarg]

25-30..... I never experience that except for score victory.

I never go for score victory, but I always tried for 2500 score for hall of fame. Even when there was no such.
And even if you just go for plain science victory, having 30+ cities helps.
That is, on Huge. I keep forgetting not everybody plays on Huge.

However even the remaining 2~3 are vulnerable since AIs like to use "neutralize governor" to turn them down.

That's easy, Just keep spamming as much Neighbourhoods as you can, and they will (almost) never neutralize your govs.

 

[Victoria]

So you basically only benefit from 2~3 governors instead of 7~8.

3-5 * 50% vs a few builders earlier. As I said earlier, for me it is a question of how many settlers AH is going to make for me.

 

[acluewithout]

I feel like Ancestral Hall is the Divine Spark of Plaza Buildings - you know it’s probably not the most optimal option, but it works and it’s fine.

War Lord throne is obviously better, but I don’t want reasons to war and more production. Game goes fast enough thanks.

The other one actually says in the SQL that it’s the building for playing “Tall”. I can’t get excited about flat negatives and I usually want at least 8 to 12 Cities and like to specialise governors so no thanks.

So, yup, Ancestral Hall. Cute playing England and getting a Builder, Swordsman and Trade Route for settling one city.

Agree the timing on Ancestral Hall is odd. I often find Ive built a few settlers before it’s built, and delay settling a few turns so I get the free builder.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I feel like Ancestral Hall is the Divine Spark of Plaza Buildings - you know it’s probably not the most optimal option, but it works and it’s fine.

yep, that's my go-to pantheon in most games so that fits

 

[montalaar]

nine times of then i choose audience chamber.

 

[Ownsya]

This is how I usually see it, crude as it may be:
Do you plan to warmonger? If yes --> Warlord's Throne
If no, Do you still have many cities to settle? If yes --> Ancestral Hall
If no --> Audience Chamber

 

[iammaxhailme]

I pick Ancestral Hall probably 70% of the time, and Audience Chamber probably 25% of the time. I don't warmongle, I usually just spam cities and garrison with archers. Even with I get into an early war (which happens often since I plant a lot of cities), I will often end up wiping out an early neighbor, but that doens't last long, so there isn't much long-term use to the Warlord's throne given my playstyle

 

[Scaramanga]

This is how I usually see it, crude as it may be:
Do you plan to warmonger? If yes --> Warlord's Throne
If no, Do you still have many cities to settle? If yes --> Ancestral Hall
If no --> Audience Chamber

I like having basic rules too and don't think it's crude at all, so I can only paraphrase you:
Warmongering = WT
Wide = AH
Tall = AC
I define wide vs tall as quantity vs quality.

 

[tedhebert]

I always play normal speed huge maps, and usually get to around 15-20 cities... So for me it's ancestral hall 95% of the times... the 5% is for when timing for it is just bad, like I already have built most of MY cities
by the time I get to building gov plaza... or when I definitely know I'm going to go all out aggression.

And BTW, the builder in every new city is NOT the only gain... 50% on settler production is huge !!!

 

[Zdarg]

I always play normal speed huge maps, and usually get to around 15-20 cities... So for me it's ancestral hall 95% of the times... the 5% is for when timing for it is just bad, like I already have built most of MY cities
by the time I get to building gov plaza... or when I definitely know I'm going to go all out aggression.

And BTW, the builder in every new city is NOT the only gain... 50% on settler production is huge !!!

I already asked, perhaps you know: it's 50% on settler production in every city of yours or or only in the city with Goverment Plaza?

 

[Kwami]

I already asked, perhaps you know: it's 50% on settler production in every city of yours or or only in the city with Goverment Plaza?

The 50% bonus is only in the city with the Government Plaza.