New Open Dev out now! :D

If pressed, I would say that they are on track for their projected August release. Assuming there isn't some Major Problem lurking in the last two Eras, which we haven't seen in any Open Dev as far as I know, the problems left to solve appear to be:

1. Balance among their selected 'Currencies" of Food, Influence, Production, Science and Money. Right now, Money appears to be the 'go to' game winner: you can buy almost anything instantly, making new city development incredibly fast. On the other hand, Influence appears to be merely an early game limiting factor to keep you from spamming new cities and outposts, and Food likewise only an early game limitation that virtually disappears by the time you leave the Medieval Era. Those are all fundamental in-game balance issues that should be addressed before Launch. On the other hand, this being a "4X Historical" game, I should point out that in fact IRL Food became much less of an issue in development and growth by the Industrial Era: artificial fertilizers, advances in plant genetics, mechanized land preparation (harvesters, plows, etc) meant that the age-old equation of 80 - 90% of the population working to provide food for the rest became 10-20% providing food for everybody plus exports. It's just that at the moment, the 'explosion' of food production appears to be a little too early and must be replaced by some other In-Game Problem to keep the gamer on his toes.
Science still seems to be too slow. They appear to have reduced the Science cost for technologies, but I haven't had time to look at that in detail and in any case, based on a few games reported so far, it does not appear to have solved the problem: in the Lucy Open Dev, I was usually between half and a full Era behind in Tech by the time I got to the Early Modern Era, so was fighting "Renaissance" Battles with Classical Era units - as were my AI opponents. This is really frustrating when you realize that you will be in and out of an Era before you ever get a chance to built the Emblematic Unit for the Faction you chose for that Era.

2. The 'Other Currencies" - Religion, Stability. I love the fact that Religion is something that happens to you rather than something you can pick and choose from like some Godly Salad Bar. On the other hand, compared to Civ, Religion appears to me to be a little Opaque: what can I do to influence Religious fervor or acceptance in my Faction? Haven't a clue. The other potential problem is that some of the 'tenets' you can choose for religion (at least the early ones - haven't played anywhere near far enough to see the later ones yet) seem pretty OP: being able to get Science or Influence per Population is potentially Game Changing, when you are looking at 100s of population points (which also appear to include Units now) by the Early Modern Era in any competitive Faction.
Stability is, again, an Early Game limitation, but since Commons Quarters and Fortifications (separate Forts) add Stability, like Influence it loses 'influence' as the game goes on. Maybe there is some mechanic to make both Stability and Influence hugely important in the late game, using them to avoid massive unrest, revolt, civil war from Nationalism, Socialism, or some other Industrial Era '-ism' and make them important again.

3. I am a little worried about the interaction among Units, Resources, and Terrain. I love the mechanic where to represent the greater 'cost' in resources from more advanced units the game simply requires 2 or more of a Resource to build them - much cleaner system than Civ VI's laborious accumulation of stockpiles. On the other hand, the map still seems to supply only 1 resource per region, which means to get later units (like the Knight that requires 2 Iron AND 2 Horses) you need to have and to exploit multiple regions. And requiring 2 or more resources early on means those units will be VERY hard to build. Case in point, the Chariot, which requires 1 Horse and 2 Copper. That means you have to have exactly the right combination of 3 regions that have 3 resources of the right kind, and exploit them all, AND have the Technologies (Bronze-Working and Wheel) to build them. To be honest, in the entire Lucy Open Dev games I played, I think I saw chariots in use by the AI (or me!) about 3 times in 10+ games.

That also means that Wide versus Tall is not a debate in Humankind - if you don't at least go Wide enough to get the right resources, the debate is Wide versus Dead. I haven't (obviously) seen the entire Tech Tree and unit list, but I hope there are, like in Civ VI, some half-decent units later on that don't require resources, or require few enough that they can be built by smaller Factions Otherwise, the game locks you into a Expand Or Die style of play that, frankly, could get boring really quickly.
 
Is it a coincidence the Victor OpenDev coincided with the Civ VI final free patch? :mischief:

Apr 22 was a big day.
I'm loving Humankind so far. It feels very next gen.

I think it has Civ's "one more turn" in its genes as it keeps making me want to reload :D

Though I find the language of Humankind a little strange, probably thanks to French devs. (I'm not knocking French devs, as I myself have worked in France and with Francophone devs in the past who can hold their own as demonstrated by Amplitude).

I find some of the little narrative sentences associated with Technologies and Units a bit strange, but that's as much because I'd rather they be more precisely historically accurate and specific than they are. That's such a minor and insignificant thing it almost doesn't bear mentioning, except that the annoyance is liable to become accumulative after I've played the game for a few hundred hours.

And that number will probably be low, because even in Open Dev, Humankind already has me itching to get back to the game: played about 100 turns yesterday , and in another hour am putting everything else aside and going back to Victor Open Dev for the rest of the weekend!
 
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I find some of the little narrative sentences associated with Technologies and Units a bit strange...
Yeah.

Example "technology osmosis".

I understand it means technology "leaks" to neighbors because I remember from school Chemistry what osmosis is, but I think there are probably lots of people out there who probably won't really get it.
 
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3. I am a little worried about the interaction among Units, Resources, and Terrain. I love the mechanic where to represent the greater 'cost' in resources from more advanced units the game simply requires 2 or more of a Resource to build them - much cleaner system than Civ VI's laborious accumulation of stockpiles. On the other hand, the map still seems to supply only 1 resource per region, which means to get later units (like the Knight that requires 2 Iron AND 2 Horses) you need to have and to exploit multiple regions. And requiring 2 or more resources early on means those units will be VERY hard to build. Case in point, the Chariot, which requires 1 Horse and 2 Copper. That means you have to have exactly the right combination of 3 regions that have 3 resources of the right kind, and exploit them all, AND have the Technologies (Bronze-Working and Wheel) to build them. To be honest, in the entire Lucy Open Dev games I played, I think I saw chariots in use by the AI (or me!) about 3 times in 10+ games.

IIRC the map in Victor is handmade as well. So a "naturally" generated map might behave different.
 
I realize the game is still in early development. After playing a couple of games in the Open Dev, my first impression is that this feels like a mod to Endless Legend more than a whole new game. Waiting to see what more development brings to this game. I am a big fan of Amplitude Studios.
 
I realize the game is still in early development. After playing a couple of games in the Open Dev, my first impression is that this feels like a mod to Endless Legend more than a whole new game. Waiting to see what more development brings to this game. I am a big fan of Amplitude Studios.

There were three OpenDevs before this I believe. I have a feeling this would be the last OpenDev before release on August 17.
 
IIRC the map in Victor is handmade as well. So a "naturally" generated map might behave different.

Yes, in neither Lucy nor Victor have we actually seen a 'generated' map as we should in a regular game. But, the one resource of each tpe (Luxury - Strategic) per region limitation has been standard in both Open Devs, and that means (to me, at least) that the minimum size of your 'Empire' is going to be: Copper, Horse, Iron, Saltpeter x 2 each minimum, or 8 regions by the Early Modern Era. And anybody want to bet that Oil and Aluminum and Uranium, at least, aren't Strategic Resources in the last two Eras? (And maybe Rubber, which would be a nice beak away from the Civ Standard Strategics), meaning the game virtually requires you to have at least 15 - 16 or more regions, maybe more if late-game units require 3 or more of a Resource (and if Knights require 2 Iron, I could definitely see a Battleship requiring at least 3 Iron, and probably Coal, Saltpeter or Oil in addition)
This is completely historical, but as said it means you wind up playing either a Germany-style World War for resources or a Switzerland Don't Bother Anybody when resource requirements start to get heavy.

On the other hand, with Fame being the only Victory Condition and lots of Fame available from Population, Science, Influence, and building Quarters, you can potentially play a very successful completely Peaceful game. This afternoon I think I got a start on that: played to 75 turns in Victor, carefully did not get belligerent with anybody, agreed to every proposal regarding Trade, Non-Aggression Pacts, etc, and in the mid-Classical Era am leading in Fame points by over 300 and have money rolling in from Trade Routes with everybody. My religion is also dominating the continent, which was entirely unintended. All of which might mean that a Resourceless Faction is playable, but carefully. .
 
Anyone already got the neolithic star for 10 curiosities?

It's supposed to be a suboptimal idea in this kind of terrain (which spawns a lot of deer but not much curiosities, compared to more barren lands) to try this.
But: apparently, you can choose a neolithic legacy trait if you manage to do this. I would be interested to see the possible choices here.

Also: cities do not exploit science and gold anymore directly, only with the appropriate quarters built on the correlated tiles. So how do people still swim in money? (and this change might also explain why many players seem to struggle with science output).

Note: I can't play the OpenDev myself.
 
Another example of strange language is "defusal" of agreements in the Diplomacy screen.

I don't think there is such a word in the OED. Maybe American? IDK
O/w I'd like to say my first impression of Humankind (after 2.5hrs) is :wow:

I'm surprised at the originality of the game. They reinvent the wheel and succeed. :goodjob:
 
Anyone already got the neolithic star for 10 curiosities?

I did on the playthrough that I just finished (first one). I was aiming for it in the Neolithic era but I didn't think of it that much. It took me so long to get it actually.
 
Anyone already got the neolithic star for 10 curiosities?

It's supposed to be a suboptimal idea in this kind of terrain (which spawns a lot of deer but not much curiosities, compared to more barren lands) to try this.
But: apparently, you can choose a neolithic legacy trait if you manage to do this. I would be interested to see the possible choices here.

Also: cities do not exploit science and gold anymore directly, only with the appropriate quarters built on the correlated tiles. So how do people still swim in money? (and this change might also explain why many players seem to struggle with science output).

Note: I can't play the OpenDev myself.

Got the 10 Curiousities (or "Science" Star) once, but didn't play that game long enough to see how much of an impact the Legacies might have. I should have taken notes, but as I remember there were three choices, one of which gave a Production Bonus, one a Science bonus, and one a Stability or maybe Influence bonus - none of the Bonuses leaped out at me as Game Changing, though.
I usually, especially when, as in Victor Open Dev, I know I'm sharing the continent with several other Factions, try to get at least 5 Tribesmen, because they upgrade instantly to Scouts when you enter the Ancient Era and you may need that defensive force if your neighbors come a'calling. I need to experiment with the other advance techniques just to see what else I can do with them . . .

Money = Trade. In my latest game. started last night, I'm Playing Nice, got trade routes and Luxury and/or Strategic Resources Trade agreements with virtually everybody, and so am getting nice Stabilty, Science and Influence bonuses from some Luxury goods I'm buying, and Money out the kazoo from all the Trade Routes. I'm only in the Classical Era, but I can already 'buy out' most infrastructure within 2 - 3 turns, which speeds up city development immensely.

In that same game, I have finally discovered the Secret of Science. Religion. WTF? I hear you say -

The 'secret' (and I'd bet real money that this gets Nerfed before Release in August) is the Religious Tenets that you can choose after you have founded a Religion (and you can do that, by the way, without even building a Holy Site: when you have 10 population you get to choose a Shamanism or Polytheism religion and off you go - although I hope they also add some more choices before Release). There are tenets that boost Science, Stability, Production, Money, etc. The two that I picked last night were "Be in Harmony with Nature" which gives +5 Science for each territory (region) under your Religion - and that includes territories belonging to other Factions that your religion has spread to - and "Bear Not False Witness" which gives +1 Science for each State Religion Follower on the Capital. Between the two of those, I was whipping out new Techs every 2 - 5 turns by the middle of the Classical Era last night. It will be interesting to see how long I can keep that pace going, because the 'tiers' of Science/Tech in the game go up precipitously from the beginning of the Ancient Era:
1st Tier: 35 Science per Tech - techs like Carpentry, Calendar, Domestication
2nd Tier: 100 Science per Tech - techs like Irrigation, Bronze-Working, Masonry
3rd Tier: 200 Science per Tech - techs like Writing, Wheel, Sailing
4th Tier: 400 Science per Tech - techs like Philosophy, Standing Army
5th Tier = 1000 Science per Tech - techs like Rhetoric, Mounted Warfare, Conquest
6th Tier = 2125 Science per Tech - techs like Imperial Power, Siege Tactics
7th Tier = 3250 Science per Tech - techs like Theology, Feudalism
8th Tier = 4560 Science per Tech - techs like Chivalry, Military Architecture
9th Tier = 5810 Science per Tech - techs like Alchemy, Guilds, Furnace Steel

Basically, every succeeding tier, at least up through Medieval Era, you have to increase your Science output by 50 - 100% just to stay at the same pace. Right now, that appears to be easy IF you dedicate your Religion to Science (the Church of the Beatific Beaker?) at least up to the end of Classical, but I'm not sure it can be maintained without some other radical mechanic.

But, speaking of Science, the Mauryan Faction of the Classical Era gets +10 Science from each minor faction they Patronize, so Mauryans with about 4 Minor Factions patronized would have my level of Science without any religious component at all.

I strongly suspect that the 'science' infrastructure, like Research Quarters, House of Scribes and Library infrastructures, and similar will get Buffed somehow so that Science construction actually is important to Science, instead of Religion as it appears to be now.
 
Yes, in neither Lucy nor Victor have we actually seen a 'generated' map as we should in a regular game. But, the one resource of each tpe (Luxury - Strategic) per region limitation has been standard in both Open Devs, and that means (to me, at least) that the minimum size of your 'Empire' is going to be: Copper, Horse, Iron, Saltpeter x 2 each minimum, or 8 regions by the Early Modern Era. And anybody want to bet that Oil and Aluminum and Uranium, at least, aren't Strategic Resources in the last two Eras? (And maybe Rubber, which would be a nice beak away from the Civ Standard Strategics), meaning the game virtually requires you to have at least 15 - 16 or more regions, maybe more if late-game units require 3 or more of a Resource (and if Knights require 2 Iron, I could definitely see a Battleship requiring at least 3 Iron, and probably Coal, Saltpeter or Oil in addition)

I finally got the chance to play the game and revealed a large portion of the map - turns out there are actually a lot of territories that have more than 1 strategic, some of them even having 2 or 3.

Problem being most of them are really far away from the player spawn, while the nearest of them are in other's territory.
 
Okay, managed to finish the game from last night. Was very specifically trying to see if you could play a completely Non-Violent game on what, to me, appeared to be a pretty crowded map.

Answer: Yes.
Renounced all grievances, Traded with everybody, wound up with 4 Fame Stars into the Early Modern Era at Turn 150, 10 territories, 6 cities, 4039 Fame total (about 1300 ahead of the leading AI). I was ahead in Science and Research for almost the entire game, had the largest Empire in number of cities and territories, BUT without wars, of course, never managed to 'vassalize' anybody, whereas 3 of the 7 AI Factions were Vassals of other Factions by the middle of the Medieval Era.
Never had a single Iron deposit in my territory, but by being the Nice Guy Trader I picked up ('bought') 2 Iron from other Factions, so had Upgraded to Knights and Heavy Swordsmen, and those and a bunch of Resourceless Pikemen and Crossbowmen were my final armies. For most of the game I had the largest, or nearly the largest, army - which I suspect is one of the secrets to never being attacked or threatened by the AI - in fact, two of the most aggressive factions asked for Alliances with me, which I entered and then never supported them in their wars - they weren't happy, but not about to pick a fight as long as I had 3 - 4 armies of fully-upgraded troops standing around waiting for them.

My Tech advance was pretty much in line with my Era advance, but as stated in the previous post, the secret to that was putting all the tenets of my religion towards Science, which seems counter-intuitive but gave me over 400 Science/turn by the Medieval Era and kept me whipping out Techs at about 1 per 4 - 6 turns, and just as the game ended I had exploited my first Saltpeter resource and if I'd had about 15 more turns would have been hammering out Arquebusiers.

There are several places where the game pace needs some serious tweaking. Science, as stated, is easy IF you use religious tenets, but I didn't see similar bonuses from the Science infrastructure like Research Quarter, Libraries, Schools, etc - that just seems Wrong to me.

Money was pretty easy to get once I started Trade Routes with everybody: I was pulling in over 1000 Money per turn and buying out almost everything - I don't think anything except Wonders (Built 2) was in the production queue for more than 3 turns before I bought it out in the last 50 turns of the game. By the way, if you have any money problems in the game at the end of the Medieval Age, go Dutch in the Early Modern and build their VOC Emblematic Quarter - several of the ones I built were hauling in 72 - 75 Money per turn from that one Quarter and my Income soared in the last part of the game.

Having the dominant Religion (because the Science Boost, or any other boost from Religion, depends on spreading your religion to lots of territories, including everybody else's) also gives you lots of Influence: but frankly, you run out of specific uses for it after the first couple of Eras. I was never short of Influence to pick up the next Wonder, or Outpost a territory (there weren't many left after the late Classical Era) or to build a City. I think they may have to find some more specific uses or ways to 'spend' Influence from the mid-game on, because I could see it just piling up - it made it easy to get 2 - 3 Fame stars per Era from Influence, but that was about all I was using it for towards the end.

Civics surprised me. It may have been due to my relatively high Stability (all my cities were at 100% for most of the last 100 turns of the game), but at the end of the game I had 13 Civics Points stockpiled and no Civics left to use them on. The relationship between Civics choices and Civics Points needs to be looked at, because the Points just stacked up and there was no other use for them except to wait for another Civics Choice to unlock. You cannot go back and 'reverse' an old Civics Choice, so at the moment there appears to be no other way to expend the Points.

I am not a Min-Max player, so I'm sure other gamers will get further into the Tech Tree and the Early Modern Era before game end, but I have to say that right now the game plays well even with the pacing and balance issues among the various mechanics.

Next Step: see how different everything works when I play Raging Militarist after this Peaceful Game!
 
Ok weird question, I played the opendev and I really enjoyed but did anyone else noticed that the AI kind of goes suicidal into your units when you are at war with them? Like I had this where I was fighting the Celts as the Romans. After some time I destroyed his army but he was still building units and eventually went with his one gasteathe (the Celts Emblamantic unit which name I can't spell) into my army of 9 units.... Obviously it would die every time but then their wardesire died pretty quickly because they lost 8 war desire for every battle they lost from me.....
 
Can anyone help me I've just won a war and can demand regions but I'm not familar with the names in the diplomacy. Where can I see the names of the regions? The only named places I can see are the cities I dont know what regions I'm asking for as I cant see the names anywhere.
 
So I think I came across my first bug in the Victor OpenDev. I couldn't get more grievances than 154. (I was trying to demand more cities from the warring empire). I posted a bug report on Games2Gether.

EDIT: it turned out not to be a bug. I got confused by the "war support" and grievances. You gain war support from killing units. But don't gain grievances.

FYI for anyone trying to post bug reports on here. I think that's the appropriate forum.
 
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