New and Changed Unit Stats

[Infantry#14]

what does it "flank attack against catapult?"

Is it extra strength against siege units?

 

[PieceOfMind]

@ PeaceOfMind:

If you left your damaged fighters 'resting' on the airfield, they would be destroyed anyway. It makes sense for them to fight as long as they can, because they would be the first targets if they were on the ground.

You raise a good point, but it still concerns me. If I have 20 infantry in a city with 3 fighters giving air defense, and an attacker comes along with 2 tanks and 10 jet fighters, I'd probably appreciate if I didn't lose all my fighters. But are you saying the enemy jet fighters would attack my fighters on the ground? That'd make sense but at the moment that doesn't happen in the game.

 

[GIR]

You raise a good point, but it still concerns me. If I have 20 infantry in a city with 3 fighters giving air defense, and an attacker comes along with 2 tanks and 10 jet fighters, I'd probably appreciate if I didn't lose all my fighters. But are you saying the enemy jet fighters would attack my fighters on the ground? That'd make sense but at the moment that doesn't happen in the game.

but you can pretend that this happened if you lost your fighters (airfields are the first targets in modern warfare).
and when your fighters are on the ground they get bombed (OH NOO - SOMEBODY SET US THE BOMB! )



hurray for me!
400 posts lol

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Very good post GIR!

I am impressed with the update to the Horse Archer, they are useful again - even more than ever.

Some folks may be disappointed that the siege weapons seem "nerfed", but really, the game is designed to encourage mixed arms for fighting and changes that make mixed arms optimal are good changes. Now we'll simply have to work a little harder with infantry to take cities since siege weapons will no longer finish the job - but they still definitely "soften" the defenders up!

 

[GIR]

what does it "flank attack against catapult?"

Is it extra strength against siege units?

i also wonder.

Cavalry:

15 Strengths, 2 Movement
* Doesn’t Receive Defensive Bonuses
* Can Withdraw from Combat (30% Chance)
* +50% Attack vs. Cannon
* Flank attack against Cannon
​

if it is extra strength why not only add it to the +50% Attack vs. Cannon?
i hope it is something new not only an attack bonus!

 

[PieceOfMind]

if it is extra strength why not only add it to the +50% Attack vs. Cannon?
i hope it is something new not only an attack bonus!

I reckon you're onto something. I was wondering the same thing because usually details are not that vague in a unit description. Plus it doesn't really make sense to have the promotion only when fighting particular units.

What do you think flanking might do? If I took a stab I reckon it'd mean it can single those units out in a stack. It'd be similar to how the Khmer UU works, except for cats and trebs instead.

EDIT This is a little naive a guess because it'd make it WAY too easy to kill a stack's siege units. Maybe it'd be say a 25% or 50% chance to attack the said units.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It means boosted withdrawal odds in the (unlikely) event that you attack one of those units and lose, I think.

 

[Zoolooman]

what does it "flank attack against catapult?"

Is it extra strength against siege units?

I think it counts as having the Flank promotion, but only against the listed unit. So Flank against Cannons is like having Flank I but only when fighting Cannons.

 

[GIR]

unit list update!

 

[Thedrin]

Machine gunners and artillery were already immune to collateral damage from siege units though they may no longer be immune to aircraft collateral (I can't tremember if they were) in which case that should be marked as a change to catapults as well.

I can't imagine they'd name a new mechanic 'flank attack' and not have it related to the flanking promotion. I'd say that it's either an increased withdrawal chance against the listed siege units or the temporary awarding of the flanking promotions in some way (so that giving those promotions to mounted units whose task is to seek and destroy siege units is a waste).

 

[GIR]

I can't imagine they'd name a new mechanic 'flank attack' and not have it related to the flanking promotion. I'd say that it's either an increased withdrawal chance against the listed siege units or the temporary awarding of the flanking promotions in some way (so that giving those promotions to mounted units whose task is to seek and destroy siege units is a waste).

somewhere i read something that siege weapons will be more vulnerable to units with the flanking promotion.
so maybe ther is a new mechanism... (at least with the flanking promotion)

 

[witten]

Thanks for great post, GIR!

Air Units:
* Can Intercept Aircraft (100% Chance) (was 50% in Warlords)

I was surprised to see this at first, but now can understand. Although I'm not an expert in air warfare, bombers are mostly effective after their side took air superiority through air-to-air battles. This change means that you need to control the air first with several fighters to shot down enemy interceptors before bombers are on duty. Blind bombing with 10+ bombers alone in pre-BTS were stupid and illogical I think.

 

[Napalm102]

So wait cats don't have withdraw chance anymore and a damage cap to boot?

So they either became even more expendable or they seized to be the suicide units altogether.

The first possibility is self explanationary, cats will die alot more now in addition to not being able to kill the units.

The second possibility is that they made siege weapons more like they were in Civ III. So you can attack, cause max 75% of damage, but you also don't loose the catapult either. And about 75% damage cap is it from total unit health ot the current unit health?

 

[GIR]

[...]And about 75% damage cap is it from total unit health ot the current unit health?

total.
every unit has a max of 100hp. that means no unit with less than 25hp can be attacked by catapults.

 

[kristopherb]

sweet thanks for the info GIR

 

[witten]

Any info on Stealth Destroyer yet? I'm wondering what's the merit of this new unit above all. Stealth capability is no more than subs.. then what would be its specialty?

Another thought goes to current Battleships. Missile Cruisers got same amount of strength. Any use for Battleships then? Cost? Are battleships meant to be now obsolete WWII-era battleships possibly..

 

[GIR]

Paratrooper:

24 , 1
*Can perform paradrops (Range 5)

Sid’s Tips: “The Paratrooper is a late-game gunpowder unit that is able to Paradrop into any visible tile unoccupied by enemy units within its range. Watch for enemy aircraft as Paratroopers on a Paradrop mission can be intercepted”
​

I wonder how Paradrops work with enemy Fighters?
(Fighters Can Intercept Aircraft (100% Chance))

Is it half the interception chance against Aircrafts?

 

[marioflag]

Any info on Stealth Destroyer yet? I'm wondering what's the merit of this new unit above all. Stealth capability is no more than subs.. then what would be its specialty?

Another thought goes to current Battleships. Missile Cruisers got same amount of strength. Any use for Battleships then? Cost? Are battleships meant to be now obsolete WWII-era battleships possibly..

If Battleships maintains their 40 strenght they will remain a strong unit without the added firepower of carried missiles of missile cruiser.
They will also be less powerful because now Submarines become a lot more powerful, with the new ability to transport tactical nukes or guided missiles.
In BtS i think the greatest change in naval warfare is that Destroyer becomes definitely a defensive units, to defend against submarine,while becoming less important when supporting invasions, because you have now more naval attack units.
Stealth Destroyer i think will be simply a Destroyer with the Submarine ability to be invisible to most units.I bet they will maintain 30 :strenght: which pared with their invisibility ability will become the definitive defensive weapon.
Carrier become even less useful now, I hope they can transport more air units and get a boost to :strenght: because with all these new units there is no room for them.

 

[witten]

(a bit off-topic)

I often don't understand how exactly this invisibility works. Say your wounded battleship with strength 5 attack a wounded destroyer with strength 5. What if that enemy destroyer is stacked with a full HP submarine.. The submarine suddenly comes up to defend? But if were not with destroyer, battleship just moves in without battle and share the tile with the enemy submarine.(I once tested this with world builder to see how invisibility works)

This is different from what I expected of invisibility. I thought the battleship was supposed to be under sneak attack when it tries to move to the same square(or next to it) as invisible unit.. much like ZOC passive attack in Civ2 or in Civ3 fort.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

[Gunpowder Units:

Why, why, why couldn't they have restored the mighty Redcoat to its former glory?