So What Happened British Empire?

[blitzkrieg1980]

but let's hope that America doesn't influence anyone by-way-of recent economic/international policy

 

[Angst]

It doesn't need to be changed...

 

[sw99]

And Americans like me are proud of the Greeks, who influenced Rome, who influenced Byzantines and Europe, who influenced America..

Exactly, I feel a bit of pride about roman achievements, and sadness about the fall of the roman empire (and subsequent 1000 years of little scientific advancement) and we were just a distant cold rainy windy island that was only conquered because some of our tribes p*ssed off julius when he was conquering gaul.

I laughed when I saw a program about excavating near hadrians wall, they found some old letters one of the troops wrote. He was complaining endlessly about how miserable it was here. I don't blame him!

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I laughed when I saw a program about excavating near hadrians wall, they found some old letters one of the troops wrote. He was complaining endlessly about how miserable it was here. I don't blame him!

I think I saw that. IIRC, he asked his wife or whoever to send him some new underpants. (No joke.)

I honestly don't understand why so many people object to having "British" instead of "English"... All I've seen so far in this forum is a bunch of rambling, incessant arguing, and one literary genius whose sole response is to say that "Britain sucks the yoke out of the devils arse thats why.." Would someone like to explain, in carefully constructed, logical sentences, why to the best of their knowledge "England" was chosen over "Britain"?

 

[sw99]

My only guess would be that they wanted liz as a leader and the british empire wouldn't fit with her. Other than that maybe because we have a few hundred years of "interesting" history before the act of union (ie, most civ playing americans know of 1066, magna carta, henry VIII and his daughter, maybe even francis drake, the founding of the jamestown colony, dunno if most americans know about him but without oliver cromwell the american revolution might not have happened! all before the union).

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Yes, I suspect most Americans know who Cromwell is (at least as many as the number of Brits who know who Andrew Jackson is) but beyond that, would British fit regardless? The island was called Britannia even in Roman times, and the people Britons.

 

[sw99]

Well, I did say civ playing americans, I doubt most brits would know anything about what I mentioned to be fair.

And I'll fess up, I recognized jacksons names but knew nothing about him, we all have our biases. Post independence - pre civil war america I know almost nothing about.

 

[JKWSN]

I didn't know we were Britons, I thought we were an autonomous collective, but I was just fooling myself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...




*it had to be done in this thread*

 

[zenspiderz]

The british empire = english empire. The english thought calling their empire the british empire would disguise their supremacy thus making the subject peoples less anti-empire. Really Wales, Scotland, etc are every bit as much conquored subjects as India and the rest were.

 

[Evil Twin]

Including the British Empire would be almost as redundant and ridiculous as if they were to include the Holy Roman Empire!
... oh, wait.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I think the idea was to rename England to Britain, not add a separate civ.

 

[KingofJoseph]

England is just a ethnic form exsisting under the whole political system of Britiania, it's not a single kingdom could possible owns a power as a proper Empire. I just don't think not every nation could be honored by the name of Empire unless it did ever in fact conquer and enslave the rest of world far beyond its cultural influence.

 

[Dubzilla8]

Firstly, I don't consider Civ to be a simulation of: history, warfare, civilization, etc... I just consider it to be a strategy game with its own context. So historical innacuracies, etc, don't bother me.

But out of interest why did they exclude the British Empire and include the English Empire?

I'm fairly sure the British Empire was the largest empire in history. OK, you could argue that in Elizabeth's time the British Empire did not technically exist. But Victoria and Churchill are certainly British Empire leaders.

Is the reason for English, and not British, inclusion just the general ignorance that exists in the US about England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland being individual countries. You know, where they equate England as being Britain?

Dear Pompous A--,

Kindly refrain from cheap shots on America. Quite frankly, I could care less whether the game says British or English. For me, probably most Americans, and the majority of non-American/non-GB gamers, it just doesn't matter - it doesn't change the GAMEPLAY. I know that this particular civilization we are discussing is arguably one of the top three (give or take) most influential in all time. I am fully aware of the difference between the two and, if it bothers you that it says English, then that is fine by me that you express your opinion. But do not act like Americans are idiots and that is why Firaxis decided to call it English and not British. Frankly, we really don't care. I still like playing with Elizabeth, Churchill, and Victoria; even if they leading the English empire instead of the British empire.

Sincerely,

An American

 

[Gaius Octavius]

You did notice the OP's profile location is, oddly enough, "England"?

 

[sw99]

Dear Pompous A--,

Kindly refrain from cheap shots on America. Quite frankly, I could care less whether the game says British or English. For me, probably most Americans, and the majority of non-American/non-GB gamers, it just doesn't matter - it doesn't change the GAMEPLAY. I know that this particular civilization we are discussing is arguably one of the top three (give or take) most influential in all time. I am fully aware of the difference between the two and, if it bothers you that it says English, then that is fine by me that you express your opinion. But do not act like Americans are idiots and that is why Firaxis decided to call it English and not British. Frankly, we really don't care. I still like playing with Elizabeth, Churchill, and Victoria; even if they leading the English empire instead of the British empire.

Sincerely,

An American

I don't really care whether it's called the english or british empire, both are quite correct really. But as you say, only gameplay matters, so why not call the american civ "boingy boingu land" I mean who cares as long as the gameplay is there? Amirite?

I'm quite confused by this line though, care to translate? "But do not act like Americans are idiots and that is why Firaxis decided to call it English and not British"

Oh, and it's "couldn't care less" if you "could care less" then you at least care a little.

 

[Evil Twin]

Mind you, the only real reason is political correctness. It's not enough that Scotland and Wales have their own parliaments (while England does not. No the British parliament does NOT count) now they want to be seen as independant countries to boot! Describing something as "British" is almost a dirty word these days.

Stuff and nonsense I say. What those Scots and Welshies need is another invasion to shut them up.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I'm quite confused by this line, care to translate? "But do not act like Americans are idiots and that is why Firaxis decided to call it English and not British"

"Do not perpetuate the stereotype that all Americans are idiots, or believe that Firaxis chose English over British simply due to their ignorance."

Oh, and it's "couldn't care less" if you "could care less" then you at least care a little.

Yes, that annoys me to no end, too.

Now, if I may, I'd like to try to lighten up the thread and get rid of this mutual England-America bashing. My view, as an American, is that the British Empire's accomplishments are almost unfathomable. To rename what was perhaps the greatest empire in history on account of pure convenience or some warped sense of "inclusion" (to make Elizabeth a leader) isn't a satisfying argument. Perhaps that is indeed why they went this route, but I just don't agree. There never was a "Celtic" Empire or even a political unit called the "American Empire..." but perhaps we're overanalyzing things.

 

[Evil Twin]

Well if we're going to be pedantic only about 6 or so civs deserve the title of Empire, the British, Spanish, Russian, Roman, Chinese and one or two others.

 

[Spearthrower]

All roads lead to Rome and all threads lead to flames.... seemingly.

I have already discussed this topic ad nauseum with a load of people who had no idea about their own history - that includes, but is not limited to, Americans. Yes... that's right Dubzilla8 - this is your history too.

And Soneji - how can you both claim that the British Empire would have been less successful without the Scottish and then try to pass all blame off for any mistakes on the English solely? Either you were a significant part or you weren't?

For those who have a genuine interest beyond either jingoism or nationalism or the desire to insult someone else's nation.... do some research into the origins of the word "Britain" to see why this pre-ancient appellative is far more suitable to cover the extreme diversity of the people's living on the British Isles.

And for the love of all that is holy, can people stop using these boards as a platform to bash other people's nations. It really says a lot about modern society and "globalisation" where the first scratchings of a global community and global freedom of speech leads to a means of dragging up the ancient past as a smear against present people.

 

[Sephlock]

I propose a compromise; we rename the English Empire to the Nitpickers' Empire. End of discussion.

Oh, and as an American, all I know about foreign countries I learned from Hollywood- and according to Braveheart (the ending, anyway.... Mel Gibson's final mutterings notwithstanding), Scotland IS a part of England .