General A New Dawn discussion

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It often happens to me, but I haven't undestood yet what's causing it.

 

[AndarielHalo]

return to game/mod after 6 years or so

Republic has like 250% increase in maintenance costs, and basically bankrupts my entire nation unless I turn science down to 20-25% after having it around 60-70%. Is it supposed to do that? Because it made me hate Republic and turn back to a Kingdom, and now half my cities are threatening revolt.


EDIT: Significantly more than half

 

[Rezca]

return to game/mod after 6 years or so

Republic has like 250% increase in maintenance costs, and basically bankrupts my entire nation unless I turn science down to 20-25% after having it around 60-70%. Is it supposed to do that? Because it made me hate Republic and turn back to a Kingdom, and now half my cities are threatening revolt.


EDIT: Significantly more than half

Working as Intended, yes. Republic was supposed to be the "Small Nation's Civic" and the +250% maintenance is there to keep larger nations from making use of it. Which really, really sucks when there's leaders who have that as their favorite civic still, and really REALLY sucks when I get spammed with rebellions demanding I change into Republic or face civil war.

Right now I've actually been caught in a situation where I can't really grow past 5 ~ 6 cities, so I'm sitting in Republic with 80% tax rate (70% Science, 10% Espionage) which is a first for me. It's actually possible to run Republic with larger empires if you set things up right, but having your science down that far really isn't too bad given the large empire-wide bonus it gives. Actually sort of offsets your having to turn the rate down.

 

[AndarielHalo]

I was mostly stable as a republic, though the money flow was wildly unstable, to where i'd have to constantly adjust my science rate every few turns because some invisible setback or another would knock 50 or more gold off my income per turn. On top of that, the constant threat of revolution and elections made the entire situation unstable despite the happiness.

what really killed it (republic) for me was a random minor revolt which resulted in two of my major cities being completely destroyed, and a supervolcano engulfing the world and sharply decreasing food income.


EDIT: This is how history is made (literally)

 

[Vokarya]

In the last long game I played, I found myself switching to Republic despite having a huge empire (20+ cities) due to gigantic unhappiness from a combination of War Weariness (a war that I wouldn't let end) and Monarchy's +50% unhappiness from overcrowding. I want to look into Monarchy more, but there are many other things I want to finish tweaking first.

 

[Rezca]

This was just unfortunate. I had a stack outside a loosely defended Mongolian city... Easily wiped the defenders, and captured it with minimal losses. The downside? The bulk of my army got teleported to a nearby Hittie city due to Greece's borders filling in the tile that once was Mongolian culture, leaving the only two units who managed to enter the captured city alone and with no way for their comrades to back them up since I have no Open Borders with Greece and he refuses to give them. Me declaring war on him multiple times from Ethopia and Hittie requests miiiight have done something to warrant that though...

He's not exactly popular on this continent though, nor is he very strong so it probably wouldn't hurt too much to declare just to get passage through to hit at the Mongolian, Assyrian, and Czech beyond where I can't reach. Though I could take a Naval route, I'm a bit hesitant to do so since some empires (None of which like me) are fielding Frigates and the like now, which seriously out-gun the ships I can produce. Roosevelt really can't do much to me at the moment since he'd have to trek through a large number of desert tiles to reach where I am by land, and the AI's still pretty bad at figuring out proper naval invasions, but I'm cautious all the same. Oh, and there's the little fact that he and Ethopia hate each other and so don't have Open Borders. Roosevelt can't reach me by land at all unless Ethopia's core cities disappear.


Ethopia and Hittie are the only two empires Friendly with me, though there's one or two at Pleased and the rest are Cautious or Annoyed/Furious (Running Imperium isn't helping that any. Maybe should switch out of that now that I've discovered that most of the world is in fact stronger than I am...)

Originally posted this in the completely wrong thread earlier and didn't notice that until just a few minutes ago.
By now though Czech marched a stack up to the barely defended city, captured it, then razed it - invoking further diplomatic penalties between him and Mongolia. Though not enough for them to stop being pleased with each other, city razing penalties don't go ever go away!

 

[Rezca]

It often happens to me, but I haven't undestood yet what's causing it.

One thing I've noticed is that it seems to happen quite frequently after a new civilization is added to the game. Several times now, I'll have just finished reducing my ESP weightings across multiple leaders from 60 ~ 99, click by click, and then some turns later an AI will release some of their colonies as a new vassal and then I'll check my Espionage screen to see my 1 ~ 5 weights all get screwed with.

I can't say that's guaranteed to happen, but I've noticed it happen fairly often. I also see it happen after you give control to a new leader during "Change of leadership" revolutions, but since you're literally letting the AI take control of your empire for a bit I guess that makes more sense since it seems the AI works with large weighting numbers like that anyway. Or at least it seems to, when I switch to the AI players with the.... One of the BUG shortcuts, I forget what it is now, but I'll look in their espionage screens and see those large numbers for their weightings all the time.

 

[AndarielHalo]

i'm getting incessant nonstop rebellions in pretty much every city I have outside of my first 12. It keeps saying my national status is getting better, and there's tons of good stuff to offset the bad, but it's always worsening for the local cities. They all have overwhelming happiness over unhappiness, yet keep revolting nonstop every few turns. I have 28 cities in total, all but 6 are on the same continent and not separated by anything.

My civics are Republic, Senate, Proletariat, Coinage, Volunteer Army, Public Works, Imperium


Most of the revolts used to be happening due to cities -I- founded wanting to join my one-city vassal, who did not found the cities and has had 0 influence in the region for centuries. Now cities are threatening to revolt because they want me to convert to Naghualism, which is a minority religion over my home religion, and I have Free Church. What the hell is going on, or do I have the means to stop these revolts from happening? No new nations are even able to form anymore, they just all turn out Barbarian and raze half the cities they gain when I accept

 

[Rezca]

Sounds like typical Revolution to me, which is why I don't always play with it on xD Though my experience is kinda the opposite - it's harshest in the 2 ~ 5 city Classic Era period and then peters out in the late to post Medieval and largely becomes a non-issue in the Industiral onwards except for loosely attended off-continent colonies. Usually.

Though, what difficulty are you playing on? I don't really know too much about the underlying Rev mechanics, other than it hates the player and wants us to suffer, to really understand what's actually helping or not, but the difficulty does play a good role in that.

 

[AndarielHalo]

I've been shifting the difficulty about in flexible difficulty, between Settler and Noble. It doesn't seem to make a difference. The revolutions haven't been successful for several centuries but they're always preceded by constant small revolts which effectively shut down all production in 1/3rd of my cities almost permanently.

 

[Rezca]

I've been shifting the difficulty about in flexible difficulty, between Settler and Noble. It doesn't seem to make a difference. The revolutions haven't been successful for several centuries but they're always preceded by constant small revolts which effectively shut down all production in 1/3rd of my cities almost permanently.

It used to indeed be permanently. Now there's a grace period of a few turns minimum between revolts.

Before, and for hundreds and hundreds of revisions: 3 ~ 6 turn revolt. Rebellion starts when it ends, putting it in an up to 16 turn revolt. Before it's even reached 3 turns left, rebellion picks up again, sticking it back to 16 ~ 19. Repeat until the end of the game, or the city just is abandoned. The 117 units with maxed Patrol promotions and the 50% culture slider was completely ineffective.

Now, garrisons do 'kinda' help (But you need a big number to really do the job) and once a city goes into rebellion it won't permanently remain that way. You'll have a few turns after the revolt dies down to rush build defenses, heal up, etc. Unless it spawns a SoD next to you like it did for me

 

[<Nexus>]

One thing I've noticed is that it seems to happen quite frequently after a new civilization is added to the game. Several times now, I'll have just finished reducing my ESP weightings across multiple leaders from 60 ~ 99, click by click, and then some turns later an AI will release some of their colonies as a new vassal and then I'll check my Espionage screen to see my 1 ~ 5 weights all get screwed with.

I can't say that's guaranteed to happen, but I've noticed it happen fairly often. I also see it happen after you give control to a new leader during "Change of leadership" revolutions, but since you're literally letting the AI take control of your empire for a bit I guess that makes more sense since it seems the AI works with large weighting numbers like that anyway. Or at least it seems to, when I switch to the AI players with the.... One of the BUG shortcuts, I forget what it is now, but I'll look in their espionage screens and see those large numbers for their weightings all the time.

As I said before such thing never happened to me. Maybe because I don't usually touch those weightings. I usually leave all at 0 and when there is someone I want to focus I set it to 1 for those few civs.

 

[Rezca]

Aaaaah... The dreaded espionage screwiness returns... I just set it all to zero hoping that'd solve it (Since it seemed to work for Sogroon), and later saved the game, and then logged off after checking to make SURE the game didn't screw with it... Evertyhing was fine. Came back on a few hours later to see crazy numbers all over the place ><

 

[Rezca]

So Gilgamesh just declared war on me. I wasn't sure where he was coming from since I didn't see any ships, so I centered on where the "Enemy has been spotted!" message was coming from...

I didn't even know that city had flipped to me
Scrolling down a bit, that city had been suffering from rebellions for years and revolted to my empire a few turns before this screenshot was taken. Wooo, I had a city flip to me! Then it's gonna get razed on the very next turn!

Fun little note, but the barbarians that kept spawning from Ethopia's rebellions ended up razing the Indian city that used to be where Gilgamesh stuck his current city.


I didn't want to take the stability hit from losing a city, and Ethopia didn't want the city back. So, I dialed up Sitting Bull and asked if he'd take the city in exchange for a peace treaty (Nothing had come from the war except a few ships on either side being sunk), and that was that.

 

[Rezca]

Roosevelt was always a significant potential threat...... Until he decided to sell pretty much his entire military in a single turn, allowing the fairly weak Hittie to actually fight back against him.

I just... Don't get it. Roosevelt went from a world power - leading in power - to being almost ignorable in just one turn. I see this happen so often with the AI it's almost painful to see. The AI's in a solid position, and then they toss the vast majority of their military away, and very rarely do they ever recover from that decision.

I mean, look at the scoreboard there. The power ratings. I was being dwarfed in power by pretty much everyone, and was spending a lot of units fighting Greece on the other side of our continent. Then I look up and most of those red ratings had gone green, sometimes by a large amount. Yes, a few of those AIs were involved in wars of their own, but a fair number of them did pretty much what Korea and America did here: Delete their entire military in a single turn.

If it's to save money or something, they should really try and learn that they don't need to wipe the majority of their forces in the process.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Just something I've noticed in my most recent game (rev 1043): the AI seems to preferentially raise and resettle cities rather than keep them. I'm seeing that happen that vast majority of the time. I've watched a few nearby civs completely raze their neighbors to the ground and slowly start building new cities in the resulting void. I just getting into the early middle ages, so it might change as the game progresses.

 

[Rezca]

Just something I've noticed in my most recent game (rev 1043): the AI seems to preferentially raise and resettle cities rather than keep them. I'm seeing that happen that vast majority of the time. I've watched a few nearby civs completely raze their neighbors to the ground and slowly start building new cities in the resulting void. I just getting into the early middle ages, so it might change as the game progresses.

It doesn't change. Razing is their preference almost exclusively, and our planet is beginning to enter the early Modern and I've counted well over thirty cities being taken since the Renaissance, nearly all of them razed.
Large city? Meaningless. Border city that had some of their culture in it? Just resettle it. Wonders inside? Looks better as rubble.

Razing was almost always the answer and whenever they get razed a Fort pops up immediately after, which tends to remain a stain on the map for centuries since no one ever comes to do anything about it, even after the military that put it up wander off. Heck, the other continent had a huge strip of land that was a checkerboard of culture because of the many cities that got razed there, eventually becoming a no-man's land because no one could plant any additional cities due to the large number of forts pushing borders out while remaining empty and unoccupied.

Maybe forts should lose their ability to act as a "mini city" and produce temporary borders if there's no units inside?

 

[MechatronicJazz]

It doesn't change. Razing is their preference almost exclusively, and our planet is beginning to enter the early Modern and I've counted well over thirty cities being taken since the Renaissance, nearly all of them razed except for when a nation recaptured a city I took from them.
Large city? Meaningless. Border city that had some of their culture in it? Just resettle it. Wonders inside? Looks better as rubble.

Razing was almost always the answer and whenever they get razed a Fort pops up immediately after, which tends to remain a stain on the map for centuries since no one ever comes to do anything about it, even after the military that put it up wander off.

Interesting. Aren't the most recent updates supposed to make it harder to raze and fortify? I can confirm that when I capture cities I need to pillage them to raze them, as was described for the update, but why is the AI acting this way?

 

[Rezca]

Interesting. Aren't the most recent updates supposed to make it harder to raze and fortify? I can confirm that when I capture cities I need to pillage them to raze them, as was described for the update, but why is the AI acting this way?

It's working as intended for the player, just not for the AI it seems. Something in their logic is letting them dance around the rules a bit I guess, but they also seem a LOT more raze-happy than they ever have been in the past. That much I don't believe is intended.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

No, it's not. I have to check the code when I have time, hopefully next week.