Suggestions and Requests

I figured if the aim was really to split up stacks of doom they could have introduced some sort of "logistics" stat that limits how many units can exist on a tile, susceptible to increase with techs, pillage, generals, etc. But the real goal was probably just to make the series more accessible to casual players.
 
I figured if the aim was really to split up stacks of doom they could have introduced some sort of "logistics" stat that limits how many units can exist on a tile, susceptible to increase with techs, pillage, generals, etc. But the real goal was probably just to make the series more accessible to casual players.

Like the supply system in Realism Invictus? Which punishes you on overstacking too much, forcing you to be smart.
 
I figured if the aim was really to split up stacks of doom they could have introduced some sort of "logistics" stat that limits how many units can exist on a tile, susceptible to increase with techs, pillage, generals, etc. But the real goal was probably just to make the series more accessible to casual players.
You know, that does give me an idea: What if there was said logistics stat, but past said number of units per tile, Units cost 1 additional gold of upkeep? That way, it both "fixes" the "problem" that doesn't exist without actually creating any hard limits on gameplay and subtly nudges players away from getting themselves killed by putting all their eggs in one basket.
 
Last edited:
How about, instead of total collapse, you lose all your cities but retain 3-4 units, perhaps lead by a warlord. With some message like 'The people have tired of your leadership and forced you to flee with your closest followers'. If you play your cards right and with some luck/skill, you can recapture a city over the next few turns and try to build your way back from there. Everyone loves a comeback story, it's a harsh punishment and you aren't unceremoniously dumped out of the game
 
Oh yeah, the changing appearance of Civ3 leaderheads was a cool feature. At least it tried to address the absurdity of "Lincoln in the Stone Age" but I guess it might also draw more attention to it. They probably dropped it in later games as LHs became more demanding to make.
It also was nice for scenarios, since it increased the number of era and culture appropriate leaderheads available. I remember that medieval Lincoln was used for some Burgundian king in the Middle Ages scenario from Conquests.
Also, since Civ 3 had only 4 eras, it was probably more manageable. I haven't played unmodded Civ 4 in years, but IIRC, it has like 6 eras.
Also I want to say that I never really liked the aesthetics and tone for any Civ game including Civ4. Civ2 was very in love with the then novel windows drop down menu and context menu UI and suffers from it a lot. Civ4 has a very strange attempt at comic art style and exaggerated personality, it shines through in how a lot of the leaderheads are drawn clearly for comedic effect (Montezuma's tantrums come to mind) as well as some diplomatic messages that go in that direction (and you could say the games overall art style is comic oriented). Not sure where this was coming from really, but thinking about WC3 being in the same time period maybe it was just in the air. I never liked the shiny sleek UI and iconography design of Civ5. Art deco is so inherently modern which puts you out of touch with the historical setting of most of the game. Civ6 really just looks like a Facebook game to me, I still don't understand how this got released in whatever year it came out as a AAA game and wasn't soundly laughed out of the room. Sorry.
I thought Civ 3 had the nicest tone of any of the Civ games I played (3,4,5). Civ4Col also had a nice tone, but I guess it's easier to make a tonally consistent game when you're focused on one area and era.
I didn't much care for the Civ 5 UI, either, but I did like the terrain and leader graphics. Nor did I really like Civ 4's UI, although you and embryodead both made it better by turning it grey and brown respectively. I liked how the Civ 3 UI kind of looked like parchment, that added to the historical feel.
The nice thing about Civ 3 is, even though it wasn't very moddable and had some flaws is, it tried to make all the eras distinct. Distinct music, leaders changing clothes, advisers changing clothes. The eras don't feel nearly as distinct aesthetically in Civ 4, and not at all in Civ 5, where, from 4000 BC to 2000 AD, there is the same music, the same leader costumes, the hyper-modern UI.
Completely agree about Civ 6 looking like a Facebook or mobile game. I found it very oftputting, I played at most an hour or two of Civ 6, because my brother has it and I was curious. I also think the Civ 6 leaderheads are a big step back...far fewer voiced lines, way more cartoony, and not even a full background.
I haven't thought about it, but sure.
Awesome
It is, but sometimes you also do want a straight coastline and it looks weird with the hex shaped jigsaw pattern. The fact that hexes allow straight horizontal arrangements but not straight vertical arrangements always bothered me.
It's not the straight coastline that I dislike, but whenever you have a coastline that should be rounded or diagonal and is just blocky. I'm sure they could have easily fixed this in the exe, which, IIRC, is the only part of Civ 4 that is still not moddable, almost 2 decades later. Civ 3's coastlines seemed less blocky to me.
 
Oh definitely. I think the game in its DoC state (i.e. mostly Blue Marble added) actually looks really good. I don't mind the cartoony proportions that much, once you are used to it as what the game looks like it's fine. I don't know if there are major improvements on top of that. I think graphical improvements go more in the direction of variety rather than quality for most mods.
I agree with this. The major improvements that would be nice to DoC/SoI/Blue Marble are seemingly not possible (importing water from Civ4Col which is apparently impossible because of something to do with the shaders, less blocky coastline which is apparently impossible because it's coded in the exe)

When I first started playing DoC in the fall of 2012, Blue Marble was the last of the modcomps that I downloaded, but ever since I did, it's not something I want to play any Civ 4 game without. The semidesert and salt flat terrains also seem to blend with blue marble better than Rhye's terrain or base Civ 4 terrain, I don't know where embryodead got those or if he made them himself.

But Blue Marble definitely improved on the Civ 4 experience significantly. I wonder why the base Civ 4 terrain wasn't great, when a lot of other games released around that time had much better graphics, for example, from 2006
r5ahepsfmsdfq1tvsaoh.webp

Now obviously, Civ is on a much more zoomed out scale than Anno, but surely, they could have given Civ 4 this kind of water graphics instead of the fairly lifeless oceans we got.
 
How about, instead of total collapse, you lose all your cities but retain 3-4 units, perhaps lead by a warlord. With some message like 'The people have tired of your leadership and forced you to flee with your closest followers'. If you play your cards right and with some luck/skill, you can recapture a city over the next few turns and try to build your way back from there. Everyone loves a comeback story, it's a harsh punishment and you aren't unceremoniously dumped out of the game
Collapse to core exists for the AI, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't currently exist for the human player because we have plenty of tools to not get into that bad of a situation in the first place.
 
It also was nice for scenarios, since it increased the number of era and culture appropriate leaderheads available. I remember that medieval Lincoln was used for some Burgundian king in the Middle Ages scenario from Conquests.
Also, since Civ 3 had only 4 eras, it was probably more manageable. I haven't played unmodded Civ 4 in years, but IIRC, it has like 6 eras.

I thought Civ 3 had the nicest tone of any of the Civ games I played (3,4,5). Civ4Col also had a nice tone, but I guess it's easier to make a tonally consistent game when you're focused on one area and era.
I didn't much care for the Civ 5 UI, either, but I did like the terrain and leader graphics. Nor did I really like Civ 4's UI, although you and embryodead both made it better by turning it grey and brown respectively. I liked how the Civ 3 UI kind of looked like parchment, that added to the historical feel.
The nice thing about Civ 3 is, even though it wasn't very moddable and had some flaws is, it tried to make all the eras distinct. Distinct music, leaders changing clothes, advisers changing clothes. The eras don't feel nearly as distinct aesthetically in Civ 4, and not at all in Civ 5, where, from 4000 BC to 2000 AD, there is the same music, the same leader costumes, the hyper-modern UI.
Completely agree about Civ 6 looking like a Facebook or mobile game. I found it very oftputting, I played at most an hour or two of Civ 6, because my brother has it and I was curious. I also think the Civ 6 leaderheads are a big step back...far fewer voiced lines, way more cartoony, and not even a full background.

Awesome

It's not the straight coastline that I dislike, but whenever you have a coastline that should be rounded or diagonal and is just blocky. I'm sure they could have easily fixed this in the exe, which, IIRC, is the only part of Civ 4 that is still not moddable, almost 2 decades later. Civ 3's coastlines seemed less blocky to me.

I like the aesthetic of Civ three so much I almost went back to this game, the biggest thing holding me back is not being able to select multiple units at once, and the religions and spies of Civ IV are more fun and Leoreth's Rhyes and Fall is the default way of playing civ now. But Civ three had the tone like others have said as truly being timeless and yet ancient in a charming way. It was worth playing just to see the leaders change, also Civ III leaders had more personality they would not threaten but sometimes declare war if demands were not met, they would also take advantage of right of passage agreements and betray the leader (The Human Hive in Aplha Centauri did this too)
 
no anarchy for solid stable civs.

twice as long for unstable ones
That's actually a really interesting idea to build a DoC modmodmod around, like, DoC itself very much uses stability as a lose condition and little else, but a total conversion built from the ground up around stability having a constant passive effect would be really cool, especially if it influenced what random events you got.
 
Last edited:
How about if Rome survives and the arabs don't make it to Carthage then the moors won't spawn?
It wouldn't make much sense for them to suddenly spawn without any historical precedent.
As the roman player, you should be able to hold on to some parts of the empire, if you have a strong military and if you are stable enough.
The arabs would probably send armies to north Africa, but if the Romans have a strong enough garrison then some other events should be allowed to take place, other than the scripted moorish spawn.
To make it more challenging for the roman player, the moors would still spawn if the arabs have a city beyond Egypt, or beyond Libya.
 
But it all happened when the empire was unstable, or when it lost battles, and was thus defenseless against the the barbarians, who sacked whole provinces.
Rome did manage to defeat some invasions, but not all of them, thus pillaging France, the balkans and Spain and destroying the infrastructure there.
There isn't any reason for it to occur somewhere without instability and military defeats, so in my opinion there is a reason in giving the romans a chance to restore lost territories/survive/shape their own fate a bit.
 
Nothing too drastic anyway, just an opening a window for the human player to influence History if they prove strong and capable enough in leading the empire.
If the roman had good emperors and good management it wouldn't have been destroyed.
 
But it all happened when the empire was unstable, or when it lost battles, and was thus defenseless against the the barbarians, who sacked whole provinces.
Rome did manage to defeat some invasions, but not all of them, thus pillaging France, the balkans and Spain and destroying the infrastructure there.
There isn't any reason for it to occur somewhere without instability and military defeats, so in my opinion there is a reason in giving the romans a chance to restore lost territories/survive/shape their own fate a bit.
Currently the ability to prevent spawn of any civ is, besides few exceptions, is outright not existing, and Leoreth doesn't seem to want to change it. Spawn of Moors without successful Arabs seems strange because Cordoba emirate historically was Umayyad remnant state, but in the game the Caliphate never conquers the Western Mediterranean, so we are pretty much dealing with alternative history anyway. Moors serve very important purpose as early competitor for Spain, so potential removing of them drastically changes balance of the region.
 
Nothing too drastic anyway, just an opening a window for the human player to influence History if they prove strong and capable enough in leading the empire.
If the roman had good emperors and good management it wouldn't have been destroyed.
But you can still recapture the territory once their rise phase is over, even if it'll be a game of whack-a-mole for a while if you try to take back everything.

By the way, is Egypt in the Arab flip zone?
Yes. I think you keep some cities if you're playing as Egypt yourself though.
 
How about if Rome survives and the arabs don't make it to Carthage then the moors won't spawn?
It wouldn't make much sense for them to suddenly spawn without any historical precedent.
As the roman player, you should be able to hold on to some parts of the empire, if you have a strong military and if you are stable enough.
The arabs would probably send armies to north Africa, but if the Romans have a strong enough garrison then some other events should be allowed to take place, other than the scripted moorish spawn.
To make it more challenging for the roman player, the moors would still spawn if the arabs have a city beyond Egypt, or beyond Libya.
you can edit your core areas on the world builder. For example set numidia and africa as core areas so Hippo Regius and Carthago will not flip to the Moors. I have not tested this trick with areas in Gaul and Hiberia though, only north africa and the balkans.
 
Back
Top Bottom