Is it good to let borders pop goody huts?
- Thread starter FatSean
- Start date
Rusty Edge
Deity
I think I get better results with border expansion than I do with warriors, but I don't know the actual rules & equations.
I also think I've had a couple stolen from under my nose by scouts from other civs while I waited.
I'd probably visit more of them with workers & settlers as I passed by if I didn't have a lingering fear of barbarians exploding out of them from my CIV I
days.
I also think I've had a couple stolen from under my nose by scouts from other civs while I waited.
I'd probably visit more of them with workers & settlers as I passed by if I didn't have a lingering fear of barbarians exploding out of them from my CIV I
days.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i don't know if they're as good as a scout, i don't recall getting a tech from one. but they're better than with a warrior, guaranteed no bad results. i remember one settler game i got a settler from one *giggle*. talk about early expansion!
would be interesting if your city got exp from the hut.
would be interesting if your city got exp from the hut.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
All I can recall getting for that sort of pop is gold. Borders are better than sending a warrior after it, for fear of barbs, unless there's another civ's unit bearing down to pop it.
Like KMadCandy said, though, I don't know about techs. If you can get a scout over there, it's probably worth it, but don't send a warrior unless you can handle the chance of barbs.
Like KMadCandy said, though, I don't know about techs. If you can get a scout over there, it's probably worth it, but don't send a warrior unless you can handle the chance of barbs.
They're exactly the same as scouts. Somebody did some extensive tests a while back. The ONLY thing that is better about scouts or border pops, is that they can't uncover hostile villagers. Thats the only difference between the 3 methods of opening them, the odds for the various prizes are identical no matter how you pop them.
Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
forth-speaker of Mentu
Assuming by the three methods you mean scout, city pop and warrior, it's an Interesting theory, but completely at odds with reality; or at least, with the Civlopedia's take on reality. Scout, special ability: "Better Results from Tribal Villages".
PMabey
Warlord
well jimbob and the civilopedia are correct.
Suppose there are 5 options from a hut. (i know there arent, but the numbers are easy)
Popping a hut with a warrior has 20% chance of doing any on of those, including barbs.
Popping a hut with a scout has 25% chance of doing any 4 options (with barbs excluded)
So suppose you pop 5 huts - the probability is that you will get "Better Results from Tribal Villages" overall with the scout, just as the civilopedia says.
Suppose there are 5 options from a hut. (i know there arent, but the numbers are easy)
Popping a hut with a warrior has 20% chance of doing any on of those, including barbs.
Popping a hut with a scout has 25% chance of doing any 4 options (with barbs excluded)
So suppose you pop 5 huts - the probability is that you will get "Better Results from Tribal Villages" overall with the scout, just as the civilopedia says.
Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
forth-speaker of Mentu
Not sure I follow. There's some discussion in this thread about scouts being able to pull tech, for instance, but not warriors. I've never noticed that myself, but haven't paid attention.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
to agree with PMabey...
in the CIV4Unitinfos.xml there's a line "<bNoBadGoodies>1</bNoBadGoodies>" for scouts and explorers. all other units get a 0.
so all units can get any of the results, the one exception is that scouts/explorers cannot get barbarians.
culture pops aren't a unit of course but from my experience they must get NoBadGoodies too.
from what i've read, if you pop a hut with any unit before you settle your first city, you're guaranteed to not get barbarians. i haven't tested this on purpose since AFAIK you're also guaranteed to not get a tech if you don't have any cities yet, so i wait if possible.
in the CIV4Unitinfos.xml there's a line "<bNoBadGoodies>1</bNoBadGoodies>" for scouts and explorers. all other units get a 0.
so all units can get any of the results, the one exception is that scouts/explorers cannot get barbarians.
culture pops aren't a unit of course but from my experience they must get NoBadGoodies too.
from what i've read, if you pop a hut with any unit before you settle your first city, you're guaranteed to not get barbarians. i haven't tested this on purpose since AFAIK you're also guaranteed to not get a tech if you don't have any cities yet, so i wait if possible.
Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
forth-speaker of Mentu
Got it... So it's not so much that you get "better results" with a scout, it's that you don't get "lousy results".
But, if you haven't settled your first city... you shouldn't let your first unit grab a hut, correct? You should just let your capital's initial border 'pop' it, because aren't there some things that cannot be randomly attained from huts until you have a city (excluding barbs as mentioned)?
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
Wow, hadn't thought of that. Does anybody waste their unit's move to pop a hut that they're going to get anyway? I guess the theory is more important than the application, but still, that's odd. What could you not have without a city? Gold?
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
you can't get a tech until you found a city is what i've heard (and experienced the very few times i've wanted to move and settle exactly where a hut is).
uncarved block
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
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- 351
I used to think you couldn't get a tech w/o a city either, KMadCandy, until it happened. Once. About right odds, too, since you will found a city on the first or second turn; the opportunity to pop a hut beforehand should happen about one game in four (or less), to pull a number out of thin air. Not often, anyway.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
good to know, thanks! i'd read it so many times i was convinced, even tho nobody pointed to code.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
Popping a tech before/when founding your first city isn't supposed to be possible....
That's based on an analysis of the SDK. The GOODY_TECH routine will only pop a tech you canResearch, and you can't research without a city.
You can demonstrate this for yourself by moving CIV4HandicapInfo.xml into your CustomAssets/xml/GameInfo folder, choosing a level, and replacing all of the GoodyTypes with GOODY_TECH. Now restart, and create a new game at that level. For this experment, drop yourself into the world builder, and gift yourself an extra settler, and goodie huts next to each of your units.
Resume play. Use your explorer unit first: the hut will pop and you won't get anything. Now found your capital... again you won't get anything. Now found the second city... aHA! A tech.
Manco Capac
Friday,13 June,I Collapse
- Joined
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- 8,051
I have a much better advice for all of you: don't play with huts.
happyturtle
Mrs GrumpyOldCivver
- Joined
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- Messages
- 860
As I'm getting higher level in play, I am leaning towards turning off huts. Emperor and above, the AI will get them all because they start with two scouts each. Monarch, you might get one or two. Maybe a couple more if you're a civ that has a scout. It's just handing the AI an advantage. Below Monarch, it's probably worth it to keep them on.
The exception, of course, is if you play on a Terra map, get to Optics > Astronomy first, and go pop all the huts on the other continent.
The exception, of course, is if you play on a Terra map, get to Optics > Astronomy first, and go pop all the huts on the other continent.
klonoklown
Civ Junky
Lol, right, exactly what I was thinking. Informative thread though.
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