GOTM65 First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 65 - first spoiler

Spoiler 1 for GOTM65 - India, is now open! How is your India doing? Have you established a strong empire and are getting ready to dictate to the other civs? Or have they passed you by? Any plans for the middle Ages? And have you run across any civs that we don't typically use in the PTW GOTM?

Reading Requirements:

1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.
2. ... or you can tell us how your civ met its demise! (This is Deity, after all!)

Posting restrictions

1. No maps showing resources from middle-ages (or later).
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later).
3. Please be discreet with any map images; I suspect there will be varying amounts and types of contacts. Feel free to mention any contacts or negotiations that you performed.

 

[Okoewanga]

[*]... or you can tell us how your civ met its demise! (This is Deity, after all!)

In 3100BC I look in hut just outside border. There are 3 barbarians in the hut. 1 Barbarian next to my workers. Quickly my Delhi warrior goes protecting my workers. No use, barbarian kills my warrior and 2 workers. Other barbarian kills my other warrior. Next turn first barbarian loots Delhi. I quit

Here is picture:

 

[Zeppa]

I am not a diety player, but I've learned a lot in this game. I built a 4 turn settler factory and at 1000 bc had 10 cities with 7 at ring 3 and 2 at ring 6. The only times I was at par level techwise was the discovery of writing and the discovery of currency. Entered middle ages at 875 BC. I was surprised by the tech handicap of diety, the best I did was 40 turns except currency at 35 or so. Middle ages finds me researching the wrong tech, spoiler, sorry.

Interesting things in my game--Rome declared war on Babs very early and enlisted a host of allies. Babs also spread the war. Babs are #1 thus must have a big target on there back. I had to pay Rome to get a ROP for them, but it has proven worthwhile as I gained a couple of Bab city sites and slowed the Babs down. This war has lasted forever, both Rome and Bab had their golden age. In spite of the Rome success the Babs remain #1 on score.

At 1000 BC had 1 settler, 10 workers, 29 warriors, and 1 archer. I was way behind in tech and remained so until I got currency. My score is last and I don't think there is any way to win this game, but at least I'm surviving. As stated earlier I'm not a diety player. Edit one last thought, those goodie huts really were vindictive, nothing good comes from a goodie hut at diety difficulty.

 

[tao]

Up till now: the typical deity game.

The AIs are way ahead in size and humble Indians agree to each and every demand.

And we are boxed in between the Romans (with legions) and the Babylonians (cultural power house).

Main points up till now:

• Delhi becomes 4-turm settler factory
• barbs disturb expansion
• no luxuries but furs
• 2150BC:
  learn writing (3 turns after 1st AI) and trade for all contacts, techs
• 1675BC:
  buy map making (under research) and trade for most of the techs, cash, and all maps
• 1000BC:
  buy monarchy (under research, known by some AIs for some turns)
  trade for all AA techs, enter Middle Ages, no deal possible for Middle Age tech
  revolt to monarchy

We have embassies with everybody (immediately spent money acquired from trades). We are way way behind.

 

[PaperBeetle]

There is a thread somewhere that lists the probabilities of getting different things out of huts, and on deity level, the chance for getting barbs is something insane like 95%. You can however guarantee not getting barbs by (a) being EXP, as discussed a couple of GOTM threads ago, (b) not having an military, or (c) popping the hut by settling next to it (not sure if later border expansions would work for this also).
I popped at least three huts by settling next to them, getting Burial, maps and a deserted village. The only other huts I popped were done with exploring axes when they were next to AI borders; sending some barbs into the AI just to keep them on their toes. If I passed a hut out in the wilds, I just walked on by.
I don't think the AI sees huts at all. It only pops them if they happen to be in the path of its units.

 

[Okoewanga]

Thank you, PaperBeetle. Next time I will not pop hut at deity

 

[ionimplant]

i poped a goodyhut to the end of the ancient age south to the Roman empire and guess what i got... literature! i immediately got all the techs plus all the money in the world and the maps...

 

[socralynnek]

First GOTM/COTM in a while which I am not going to submit.
I did ok in the AA and even were lucky that Babs and Romans were fighting each other.
But when the AIs reached the MA, the number of barbs was so horrible that I couldn't stand them.

My cash went from over 1000g to below 300g (and some barbs were still around) and production and people were lost.

As I felt that I couldn't have done much to prevent this I was pretty annoyed.
So I gave up. Deity is hard enough for me without such obstacles.
maybe Babs and Romans fighting wasn't so good in the end cause they might have otherwise killed more barbs.

 

[ionimplant]

maybe Babs and Romans fighting wasn't so good in the end cause they might have otherwise killed more barbs.

i also had huge barb uprising problem. i had two huge stacks of horsemen, one to the west of my empire, one to the east. i just spent all the money establishing embassies. yeah, i lost many units, production, and even 1 or 2 workers, and all the road network and land improvement were gone. but eventually they all died pillaging 2 gold per horsemen and i resumed the game...

 

[PaperBeetle]

I think I lost one worker, 20-30 shields and 17g. And I was sloppy to lose that. The sudden presence of all those barbs just made it the ideal time to buy one of the remaining ancient techs for all my treasury + a fair amount of gpt.
Those barb horses won't ride past an undefended junk town to reach somewhere they can cause real damage. So assuming you are still founding towns at that stage in the game, just send some settlers out to placate the barbarian hordes. If these "party towns" are founded in inconvenient locations, you can always turn them back into settlers once the barbs are all partied out.

 

[tao]

I built 2 cities (NW, SE) to attract the barbarians. Both were set on wealth and thus contributed a little bit on turns they were not raided. Since I did not accumulte cash (why ask for extortions) my losses were extremely limeted.

 

[ionimplant]

i did not spend a single coin on research after my 10% tech run for Polytheism was 8 turns too late. after I revloted to republic, i disbanded all the units to get temples in those cities ready to flip.
i had one outpost cities to steal the wine from Babylon. it was at 6% flipping status for many turns and stayed loyal.
other than this, nothing happened. i spend most of the time watching AI walking across my countries...

 

[Midgardsormr]

Hello, everyone. I am new here and thought I'd try my hand at the GotM. I was, naturally, a bit leery of kicking it off with a deity game, but I'd read everything in the War Academy and I downloaded the Conquest save. Besides, there's no dishonor in losing when the deck is stacked, right?

So, by 1000 BC, I had nine settlements, access to both horses and iron, and I was working on The Republic. By this time, I had contact with everyone because the French had very generously sold their communications to the entire world. I had embassies with my nearest neighbors, but between regular extortion demands and buying tech, my treasury was very low.

Shortly before they entered the Middle Ages, Babylon was attacked by the Mongols. Within a few turns, pretty much everyone except Rome had joined one side or the other. I quickly had Zulus fighting with Greeks in my territory, and Arabs sweeping across my lands on their way to Babylon. When it looked fairly certain that Babylon was winning the war, I accepted an alliance in exchange for Chivalry, allowing me to build my War Elephants and push Temujin off the peninsula to my north.

So far, so good, but the tide was about to turn...

 

[civ_steve]

Welcome to CFC and GOTM! We tend to start around Regent level, and ramp up to a higher levels, giving players a chance to gradually improve their skills. So you'll get a shot at playing 'easier' games soon. Good Luck! (although 'the tide was about to turn' sounds ominous)

 

[Midgardsormr]

Thanks. Glad to be here. The game was challenging, and I lost decisively, but the learning experience was well worth it.

Mid

 

[Chamnix]

Predator, going for domination (probably).

Settled in place. Built 2 warriors, 2 turns of wealth, sent a chop toward the first settler (completed on growth to size 3), then a granary with a second chop followed by a worker, warrior, worker, and 4-turn settlers. Researched pottery at max. Worker chopped, irrigated and roaded one game, then the other.

First settler settled to the northwest along the river at RCP 3 popping maps and building warrior, warrior, worker, warrior, worker. Although I found many other huts, I did not pop any.

Cities were founded at RCP 3, 7, and 10. I was surprised to find a third ring was actually useful on deity, but I guess that’s just my unfamiliarity with large maps.

Research went Pottery at maximum, Writing at minimum, and Literature at maximum. I traded for all other Ancient Age techs except the governments, and I also managed to trade for several slaves in the Ancient Age. I had no wars in the Ancient Age.

I entered the Middle Ages in 1050 BC. Although I was briefly at tech parity at that point, the scientific civs all got different Middle Age techs and freely exchanged them, so I was right back in a hole at the beginning of the Middle Ages.

QSC:

10 towns
24 citizens
1 settler
14 native workers
10 slaves
10 warriors
11 archers

 

[PaperBeetle]

Cities were founded at RCP 3, 7, and 10. I was surprised to find a third ring was actually useful on deity, but I guess that’s just my unfamiliarity with large maps.

And the mighty COM trait of course. I have a (completely unsubstantiated) theory that on average COM will oustrip the benefits of any other trait, when measured in a pure shields-and-commerce-saved fashion. With the exception of REL and SCI on a 100k victory I suppose.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Open Survival first, then look for a way to win

I wanted to play a deity random map game on PtW with India, but couldn't find the time, so just started this game. I must remember to set preferences at the beginning as once again I lost a turn of research after settling. I started researcing writing on max, taking a gamble I would be able to trade for pottery soon. Neither was a good idea as I realized it was futile to lower the discovery time of writing and switched to min. science after wasting 13 turns. At first, I left the deity huts alone, but after 24-turns with my 3 axes making no contacts and my barracks pre-build about to complete, I desperately popped three huts and got the barbs I deserved. This left me with one warrior to make contacts and no money to buy pottery from Rome or Babylon. I did manage to pop pottery upon settling my second city, but three times I chopped a forest only to lose the granary shields to barb horsemen and a few warriors and an archer as well. I did get writing at monopoly in 2100BC and traded for BW-IW-masonry-WC-mysticism-HBR, 12 contacts (nobody knew Japan until 5-turns after), everyone's gold and established 12 embassies. I finally managed to get 5 cities at distance3 by 1000BC, trading for math-poly-philo-currency along the way. I wasted 13-turns on a min run at math, changing to a min. run at monarchy. This was barely enough to trade me to the MA in 670BC and a revolt to Monarchy, with 7 distance3 cities and 2 more at distance seven. I've built a small stack of archers I may use in a war soon since they are erupting all around me. The barb stacks were taken care of by the ai's marching to war, so am currently having no problems with them. I might have a chance to catch up by joining the right side in a war and producing elephants soon. I think the embassies might have helped as extortion demands were low. I'm pretty lucky to have survived this far, as the Romans, Greeks, or Babs could have destroyed me earlier. I'll keep fighting until the end win-or-lose, but this looks tough right now.

 

[PaperBeetle]

The Settler Factory
First up, I fortify my units, and the turn immediately ends. So I go and whine to civ_steve for a bit. And in 3950bc Delhi is founded on the start location. The worker immediately goes to chop and water the first game. I think the first food bonus is the most important; it saves five turns per pop cycle without a granary, and two turns per cycle with one. But the second food bonus only saves a further one turn per cycle. So it's chop, irrigate, improve some beegees, then back to the chopping.
The granary is finished in 2900bc, and I start a second worker, as the four-turn factory requires a lot of improvements to run. My first settler is out in 2590bc, and I build another 3 settlers and an axe over the next 16 turns, after which the factory is ready to pump at a steady one settler every four turns.

The Local Giants
Before the granary I build two axes - after all, the research time of Pots alone means that I can't do the granary any faster. The first axe explores east and so meets the Babylonians. I trade Alphabet for Pots and War Code. The second axe explores north and so meets nobody at first. After reaching the northern coast, he heads west and meets the Greeks, who agree to swap Pots for a slave. Soon enough both explorers have turned north, and so meet the French in the west and Zulu in the east. Having explored north of the Great Lake, I don't actually meet the nearby Romans until 2270bc. Julius still doesn't have Masonry at this point though, and I am researching it, so I buy the last 25 beakers from France for 17g, and swap it for Burial with the Roman.

Initial Expansion
My second town is founded at RCP3 so as to pop the hut northwest of Delhi, and it gets Bronzework. Bombay builds a stream of axes which I can use for mil pol and settler escort. With so few luxuries handy, mil pol is important to keep my research up, and I am determined to give these AI a run for their money on techs.
Madras goes to the east at RCP6, popping a hut for nothing, and getting access to two games, and Bangalore then takes the RCP3 spot between Delhi and Madras. By the time I put Calcutta at RCP3 in the southeast, Rome has already founded a town in my RCP6, which is a bit of a shock - I met his units out in the field somewhere beyond Greece, and didn't realise Julius actually lived southeast of me.

Tech Haul
Since Masonry, I have been working on Maths. The AI gets it in 1725bc, I can buy if from Osman (who bought my contact this turn) for 6gpt + 8g. Trading it to civs on the other half of the continent brings in Writing, Ironwork and Mysticism, and then selling on Writing gets me Wheel, Riding and a large pile of cash. Philosophy is out too already, but I'll have to wait for that. I set my own research to Literature. My new tech knowledge reveals to me no nearby horses, but there is iron in the mountain range to my northeast.

Breaking the RCP
RCP3/6 turns out to have been a poor decision. I was initially expecting to be hemmed in by these deities, but of course we have actually been given quite a lot of room. Planning on a long stretch of research, I should have used RCP4 to give my towns room to run large, and this error is highlighted when I realise that I can't reach the sea with RCP3. Lahore is founded at RCP4 on the southwest coast.
Babylon has almost reached the coast to my southwest too, so unless I slip some settlers around behind them, onto the tundra peninsula, my expansion is now forced northwards.
I decide it is time to start bagging resources; my next town goes next to the iron in the northeast, then in 1400bc I settle next to the wine, encroaching slightly on Babylonian borders.

Reaching Parity
The AI reach Mapping in 1550bc, and of course the sale of maps is always is a big opportunity to get back on terms with them. I also still have some contact trading opportunities to bargain with. I start by buying Polytheism from the Axtecs, in exchange for western contacts. Then I sell Polytheism to France for Mapping, and the catch-up really begins. I start by selling these two big techs around liberally, to get Philosophy, 4 slaves, plenty of cash, and plenty of world map. I find I have most every saleable resource in the world, and I haven't even sold my w map yet, so I figure I can use it as a bargaining chip to buy some alliances; I dow Watha, who doesn't look likely to be a threat to me, and renegotiate peace with the Americans, Aztecs and Ottomans, sending them to war with the Quois. I also buy Shaka and Temu into the war without renegotiating their peace; as their lands lie between mine and the other civs involved, I would like to be able to keep them on my side of the wars.

Building the Treasury
By now I have noticed the horse on the shore of the Great Lake to the northwest, so I decide to expand towards it, filling in the grasslands and irrigating across the plains as I go. With this nice river system we have, and the gold sources, research is strong, and I am actually a little surprised to be beaten to Litertature; the AI gets it in 1300bc, and I can buy it from Abu in exchange for Polytheism. I also trade it on for Laws, so we are only two techs away from the medieval. I set my research to Republic on a min run, my first of the game.
Meanwhile in the north, the Aztecs give the Quois peace, so dowing me, and bringing in my first war happiness. Hooking the Babylonian wines the same turn, I can turn the lux slider down to zero. Coupled with my tendency to run a map trading round every turn or two, which is often worth the best part of 50g with so many civs, the cash is really rolling in. There are extortions of course, mostly by nearby civs like Greece and Babylon, so I give in, but that's okay. They are just asking for chump change really.

Ending the Ancient Age
I finally get the iron hooked in 1100bc, and can start upgrading my units with all that cash. The first 5 swords put my average to Arabia, but still weak to everyone else, but there are plenty more veteran axes around to be upgraded. By 1050bc, I am average to France, Quoia, Mongolia, Ottoma and Greece. And I need those swords quick, if only to burn off my treasury; in 1075bc the AI hits the medieval era, and the barb uprisings kick off.
In 1025bc I see that Watha has Currency. As he was the target of my dogpile, he got sufficiently beaten to give me a discount on the tech. I buy it for 14gpt, and also send Watha back to war with Aztecs in the same deal. This act puts me at war with Abe and Osman, but I don't fear those guys. Then I go to Shaka to swap Currency for Construction, and I am medieval.

QSC Stats
11 towns with 28 citizens and 109 tiles.
111 food in the bin, 158 shields in the box, 32g in the treasury.
2 granaries, 4 barracks, 1 temple.
2 settlers, 8 workers, 8 slaves, 7 axes (reg), 1 archer (elite), 13 swords (2 reg, 11 elite).
All ancient techs except Monarchy and Republic (46 beakers gathered).
12 contacts, 6 embassies.