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I am saying that using your logic that we should do that. Your logic means we should get at least initial cities ASAP. Yes that is what I meant.

Closer in complication to actual game. Besides, you said something similar yourself. *SNIP* This is unnecessary and it is flaming. Please be nice to folks who are trying to help you improve your game. - lymond If it is about expanding fast, then logically whatever method produces 3 cities in...

What is the difference between whipping or buying first turn of production verses after a turn? Double cost first turn for both?

You are contradicting yourself. This is over-simplistic. "Not catching up" with chopping would only be a thing if we had endless forests to chop. If the goal is to have more food, commerce and production earlier, a second city should be made before a second worker.

What does "cold whip" mean? Don't wait a turn for production first?

Did you make one worker or two with either?

My mistake, I was looking at a different screenshot. When you say "worker settler" you meant BW - Fishing as well?

Indeed there is no consistant metric, even a combination of metrics, for deciding which is better, and to something like turn 32 is too little for the variables to iron out. For example the version where you do the mine first is running at a significant income deficit. So you can't say it's...

So when do beasts disappear in the game?

What is the exact research point difference in your two tries?

One thing is, I need to make a detour to get Hunting after Fish-BW, but it also helps me by allowing a camp on the fur as well as a scout. I was thinking roading after Sailing to connect up the fur for happiness and to allow workers to road up to future city spots and generally be more efficient.

Do beasts disappear on their own after enough turns? I notice after a point I no longer encounter beasts.

Do barbarians and beasts attack each other?

Sorry I missed your post 102, I will examine it, that will take some time. I see though you said in the other way your city was at pop2 at turn 32, which is technically incorrect. Barb huts have a good chance of giving gold, 25%, seems to be usually around 30-40g with a minimum of 25 or so...

For what purpose? To manically chop down all forests so we have no way to rush LH? I thought the whole idea was to get new sources of resources? Delaying getting a third city puts us further "behind". Third island city should build monument anyway. Only way that city is going to be able to...

How long for a third city on the island? I managed at turn 49 (actual placement) I declined whiping to make it faster as I didn't want to over whip and have morale problems, but I could have probably gotten that third city a turn or two earlier. A few rounds I wasn't sure what to produce, like...

So you built a worker then a settler? I question the value of a early city without trade route.

Yeah I am unclear as to whether you build a second worker or a settler after your first worker with this

Reading maybe, but not listening and especially not considering.

I had no problem getting a second city in a simular amount of time doing fishing first.