pnp_dredd
civ junkie
I'll post a detailed PPP within 36 hours, based on Fluro's and Blubmuz's discussions, aiming for around 7-10 turns.
SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
beestar
subdeity
I'm busy until the holidays (23-12-2010) but then I'll have some time to play when I'm not shovelling snow in Toronto 
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
OK here's a draft PPP
Golden age: 10 turns left, so I'll stop after 6 turns to allow us to plan our final civics switch, perhaps with mass-whipping before hand?
Civics:
In 3 turns revolt to Nationhood +Theocracy and draft rifles from everywhere except CI and StP (Moscow last), 3 per turn each turn for 4 turns. The French cities look particularly good for drafting from.
Specialists: we're running lots of engineers (from recent switch to Mercantilism?), I propose to switch a lot of these over to merchants where available, or scientists. Rostov should keep running engies, then merchants once we pop the GE.
Tech:
complete Astro (3), Democracy. Run 100% science on turn 1
Mining execs: One en-route to Rostov (oringinally said Rheims). Next ones to Novo, Paris, Bryansk, Orleans, then to other non-observatory cities
builds:
Moscow: Mining exec(2-Novo), mining exec(2), observatory
StP: complete Wall St (1), mining exec (2-Orleans), observatory. Merchants >> hammers here.
CI: Rifle, cannon, rifle, cannon
Novo: Market (2), wealth (1), mining exec (3), observatory
Orleans: grocer (1), wealth, mining execs
Rostov: wealth(1), mining execs Pop GE then run merchants
Rhiems: Uni (2), wealth(1), observatory
Yaroslav: Grocer (3), observatory
Paris: wealth, mining execs
Smolensk: cancel Grocer, begin Uni
Orenburg: Uni (3), observatory
Kranskyyard: Cancel market, begin Uni (to be whipped)
Khabarovsk: Forge (3), Lighthouse (3), wealth
Bryansk: cancel market, begin Lighthouse, then Mining execs
Tver: courthouse(4), forge(6)
Hangzhou: harbour(1), lighthouse (3), wealth
Chengdu: courthouse, forge
Novosibersk: courthouse, forge
York: courthouse (whip), granary
Magadan: courthouse (8)
Hastings: Uni(4), settler (iceball), wealth
Murmansk: granary, courthouse
London: courthouse
Canturbury: library
Trades:
Ghandi will trade copper for cow. Copper gives +1 hammer under mining inc., which sounds good to me!
Trade economics to Ghandi for gold+WM
Logistics:
Workers focus on a railroad network, then on improving new cities.
Ship out some military police to the islands, upgrade galleys to galleons to protect against the English caravel. Once that's gone we should be safe, as the AIs dont have any cities left on the "east coast" of the continent.
Rheims has some obsolete units we can use as MPs.
War:
Take Nottingham next turn (?raze it - only has 1 tundra deer, 1 grassland and 1 grass hill that aren't shared)
Bypass Oxford and move on to take Coventry and Warwick. We'll need to move our army back again anyway, and can take Oxford on our way back, once we settle the iceball.
Golden age: 10 turns left, so I'll stop after 6 turns to allow us to plan our final civics switch, perhaps with mass-whipping before hand?
Civics:
In 3 turns revolt to Nationhood +Theocracy and draft rifles from everywhere except CI and StP (Moscow last), 3 per turn each turn for 4 turns. The French cities look particularly good for drafting from.
Specialists: we're running lots of engineers (from recent switch to Mercantilism?), I propose to switch a lot of these over to merchants where available, or scientists. Rostov should keep running engies, then merchants once we pop the GE.
Tech:
complete Astro (3), Democracy. Run 100% science on turn 1
Mining execs: One en-route to Rostov (oringinally said Rheims). Next ones to Novo, Paris, Bryansk, Orleans, then to other non-observatory cities
builds:
Moscow: Mining exec(2-Novo), mining exec(2), observatory
StP: complete Wall St (1), mining exec (2-Orleans), observatory. Merchants >> hammers here.
CI: Rifle, cannon, rifle, cannon
Novo: Market (2), wealth (1), mining exec (3), observatory
Orleans: grocer (1), wealth, mining execs
Rostov: wealth(1), mining execs Pop GE then run merchants
Rhiems: Uni (2), wealth(1), observatory
Yaroslav: Grocer (3), observatory
Paris: wealth, mining execs
Smolensk: cancel Grocer, begin Uni
Orenburg: Uni (3), observatory
Kranskyyard: Cancel market, begin Uni (to be whipped)
Khabarovsk: Forge (3), Lighthouse (3), wealth
Bryansk: cancel market, begin Lighthouse, then Mining execs
Tver: courthouse(4), forge(6)
Hangzhou: harbour(1), lighthouse (3), wealth
Chengdu: courthouse, forge
Novosibersk: courthouse, forge
York: courthouse (whip), granary
Magadan: courthouse (8)
Hastings: Uni(4), settler (iceball), wealth
Murmansk: granary, courthouse
London: courthouse
Canturbury: library
Trades:
Ghandi will trade copper for cow. Copper gives +1 hammer under mining inc., which sounds good to me!
Trade economics to Ghandi for gold+WM
Logistics:
Workers focus on a railroad network, then on improving new cities.
Ship out some military police to the islands, upgrade galleys to galleons to protect against the English caravel. Once that's gone we should be safe, as the AIs dont have any cities left on the "east coast" of the continent.
Rheims has some obsolete units we can use as MPs.
War:
Take Nottingham next turn (?raze it - only has 1 tundra deer, 1 grassland and 1 grass hill that aren't shared)
Bypass Oxford and move on to take Coventry and Warwick. We'll need to move our army back again anyway, and can take Oxford on our way back, once we settle the iceball.
Fluroscent
Emperor
Good plan, few comments:
Agree with merchants/scientists over engineers. Exception if running an engy will speed a build.
Builds: Whip execs if they take more than 2 turns to build.
Also, try to get the last cottages running. Probably best to avoid whipping away cottage workers if possible.
Can't do vassalage since it is the same column as nationhood, but otherwise good.
Nah, let's not sacrifice anything for EPs.
Rostov should run engineers at least until we pop the next GE for SoL. Then probably switch to merchants if possible. But engineers are good there since we have IW though.
Agree with merchants/scientists over engineers. Exception if running an engy will speed a build.
Builds: Whip execs if they take more than 2 turns to build.
Might as well get his gold+WM for it.
Maximize wall street by running first turn at 100% science, so we build gold with WS running.
Also, try to get the last cottages running. Probably best to avoid whipping away cottage workers if possible.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Yes, a pretty good plan.
We do not raze any city! The AI can settle on the holes and we do not want this.
We must take and keep Notthingham (remember to kill the sheriff) and the other tundra city with oil in the ice. Then we can negotiate peace.
Don't forget a settler for the English iceball in your queue. I guess that Rheims can be good for that.
I'm sure i've put on route an exec for Rostov. This city MUST continue to run engineers, at least until we pop another GE. But please don't forget the 3GD. We can need another GE for that. I don't like coal plants.
Do not attack the caravel. It's the one which won without a scratch against 2. Let's wait for frigates.
The LBs for the islands are already boarded on the galley. Just wait to have Astro, upgrade it to galleon, then move it escorted by a caravel.
We want upgrade all our galleys to galleons, right? It's cheap.
I doubt you can run many merchants, i looked for that chance desperately to have Rifling 1 turn earlier, but without Caste, not much to do.
We need at least 1 market or 1 grocer in any city. (sorry Fluro, i'm convinced of this, i hope you can see my point too)
We do not raze any city! The AI can settle on the holes and we do not want this.
We must take and keep Notthingham (remember to kill the sheriff) and the other tundra city with oil in the ice. Then we can negotiate peace.
Don't forget a settler for the English iceball in your queue. I guess that Rheims can be good for that.
I'm sure i've put on route an exec for Rostov. This city MUST continue to run engineers, at least until we pop another GE. But please don't forget the 3GD. We can need another GE for that. I don't like coal plants.
Do not attack the caravel. It's the one which won without a scratch against 2. Let's wait for frigates.
The LBs for the islands are already boarded on the galley. Just wait to have Astro, upgrade it to galleon, then move it escorted by a caravel.
We want upgrade all our galleys to galleons, right? It's cheap.
I doubt you can run many merchants, i looked for that chance desperately to have Rifling 1 turn earlier, but without Caste, not much to do.
We need at least 1 market or 1 grocer in any city. (sorry Fluro, i'm convinced of this, i hope you can see my point too)
Fluroscent
Emperor
But we will be in caste soon, so no problem. The difference between a merchant and a scientist is small anyway.
Agree with no razing. Any city with corps will be profitable. Didn't catch that point in the PPP first time.
Also agree with waiting for galleons before shipping MPs.
There is a planned settler. No reason to take premature peace, might as well take him down to 1 city before peace+iceball gift.
Coal plants are awesome, almost every city should build one right after factory. No reason to waste a GE on a mediocre wonder like 3GD. Not saying we shouldn't build it at all, but we should use future GP for golden ages instead, much more value in that.
beestar
subdeity
In a game like this, we should end up with a high research slider. Cities either build Wealth (workshops, hammers, forge, factory, power plants) or work cottages to produce science (universities, libraries, etc). We should rarely need to run low slider.
Whenever possible St. Pete's should be running merchants instead of working hammer tiles. Wall Street is useless at high research slider, unless we hire merchants.
Rostov's really weird. It should run merch specialists to generate a GM for Sushi, but it also has lots of hammer multipliers so it should build Wealth ...
We should get Sushi going soon - we can spam workshops in our hammer cities, and really ramp up our merchant specialists in our gold cities, once we get that going. Extra pop also helps for the Kremlin-enhanced whip, and the Nationhood draft ...
Whenever possible St. Pete's should be running merchants instead of working hammer tiles. Wall Street is useless at high research slider, unless we hire merchants.
Rostov's really weird. It should run merch specialists to generate a GM for Sushi, but it also has lots of hammer multipliers so it should build Wealth ...
We should get Sushi going soon - we can spam workshops in our hammer cities, and really ramp up our merchant specialists in our gold cities, once we get that going. Extra pop also helps for the Kremlin-enhanced whip, and the Nationhood draft ...
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
Thanks guys, I've updated my PPP. I agree with almost everything.
This is unlikely, as we're spereading to hammer cities first and they'll also have the Mining Inc boost.
I'll do this as required
I agree with this - we're on a roll so let's take the 3 best cities now, leaving Oxford. Then take peace and gift iceball, and then take Oxford.
This is unlikely, as we're spereading to hammer cities first and they'll also have the Mining Inc boost.
I'll do this as required
I agree with this - we're on a roll so let's take the 3 best cities now, leaving Oxford. Then take peace and gift iceball, and then take Oxford.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We soon have the Kremlin. That's why i prefer to take only the other English tundra/ice city after the one i almost took, then negotiate peace.
Then we can finish Mao, while preparing the iceballs for Roos and Chur. Then we can concentrate on Roos: a good number of frigates and rifles. We already have an impressive number of cannons. But if Roos arrives to rifles we must count to lose the first cannon, so maybe is better build some more.
Unfortunately Roos has an island city which expands his BFC on a fallout tile in the main continent.
With Mining Inc we can probably forget the need to whip. It's also not possible to run many specialists if we don't use Caste. And don't forget that Caste enhances the Workshops with +1H.
We can not consider to use SP. First it cancels the effect of Corps, then we need a detour in a useless tech which won't even give us the free GSpy.
I'm afraid Sushi is too expensive and in any case we need the GM for it.
In any case, i think that we should build the CR after Radio. It gives us the freedom to switch between civics every turn, so we can have more options.
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
I'm not sure about this. We need to take care against jumping our army from one end of the continent to the other. We've already begun on China, then switched to England. Here you are proposing that we against switch to China then America and then switch back to England again.
I would rather cripple Churchill now, while our army is on his doorstep and we've removed his stack.
The war against Roosy may be long and bloody: he's got more military than us according to the Demographics. I'd like to get England out of the way first.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We need in any case to move our army back to "England", since we need to let him with at least one city.
I think that a good compromise, probably a good solution is to take Nottingham, Oxford and Coventry.
The Iceball can be settled along the ice river, on the icy coast S of Nottingham.
If you think it's a good choice give Econ to G for almost nothing, we can try to bribe him at peace with dG. We got OB with G and he can send a couple units to take the last French city, so it's a good use of a tech.
With railroads our troops can be quickly on the Chinese borders, so prioritize this.
Nothing more. Good luck!
I think that a good compromise, probably a good solution is to take Nottingham, Oxford and Coventry.
The Iceball can be settled along the ice river, on the icy coast S of Nottingham.
If you think it's a good choice give Econ to G for almost nothing, we can try to bribe him at peace with dG. We got OB with G and he can send a couple units to take the last French city, so it's a good use of a tech.
With railroads our troops can be quickly on the Chinese borders, so prioritize this.
Nothing more. Good luck!
Fluroscent
Emperor
I didn't check the save so I cannot remember where Oxford etc is. But I think we should leave the city that is going to be swallowed by Indian culture for last.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
So we agree. The city you mentioned is Warwick, the new English Capital. I'd like to take Newcastle, but it's too faraway. So if we leave Chur with those 2 cities he will accept the iceball and we save time. We can always use Marines to deal with those and in any case wait when we'll be ready to take our friend Gandhi.
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
I could play tonight, but I'm rather well toasted after a work Christmas party, so will play tomorrow evening when I'm sober.
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
OK, it all went to plan.
Completed Astro-Demo.
Took 3 English cities, losing one Cannon.
Have a settler ready to create English iceball.
Popped a GE in Rostov.
Spread Mining Inc to 14/27 cities. We might want to think about what we can do with all our surplus cash at 100% science...
Drafted Rifles like mad.
Big stack ready to attack China.
3 items to note:
On the first turn Stalin asked us to stop trading with Ghandi, which I declined.
On the last turn Roos took Beijing, hopefully smashing his stack to bits in the process.
Roos teched Physics at some stage.
We are 1 turn from being able to switch civics, and probably want to set up whips in a few cities.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1650 AD to 1685 AD:
Completed Astro-Demo.
Took 3 English cities, losing one Cannon.
Have a settler ready to create English iceball.
Popped a GE in Rostov.
Spread Mining Inc to 14/27 cities. We might want to think about what we can do with all our surplus cash at 100% science...
Drafted Rifles like mad.
Big stack ready to attack China.
3 items to note:
On the first turn Stalin asked us to stop trading with Ghandi, which I declined.
On the last turn Roos took Beijing, hopefully smashing his stack to bits in the process.
Roos teched Physics at some stage.
We are 1 turn from being able to switch civics, and probably want to set up whips in a few cities.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1650 AD to 1685 AD:
Spoiler :
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
OK, good one, Dredd.
Just a flaw: you forgot to bribe G to peace with dG and possibly with Mao while giving him Economics. BTW, what does he gave us for that? In any case, we were successful, he revolted to FM.
I see our stack ready to begin with Mao this turn. I also see 2 units in the no man's land in former England. I think 2 knights can take care of them.
We need also some MG for stack/city defense. After Mao we'll start immediately with Roos. I think a couple airships can help.
Civics
for sure: stay in Representation, FM (or we'll be ruined), FR and caste.
less sure about bureaucracy: we have 28 Towns (according to F9) and 25 Villages (some of them soon being Town). If we adopt Free Speech we'll save over 20gpt (it's less expensive than Bureau) and gain 28*2 commerce from towns, with more to come after the villages will mature. I think this is more than we can gain from Bureaucracy, if you don't mind the production bonus.
In the beginning of the game i was convinced that the only race at risk could be the Lib one. But thanks to his wonders and probably to the techs we gave to G and that Roos surely have traded, he beaten us to Physics. I expected this, of course during my TS.
Another flaw: Rostov is building wealth. It could have started the SoL the preceding turn. Let's do it now!
I'm even thinking to not burn the GE on it. It's 10 turns with 3 more of GAge, but we'll soon have 2 more MI resources from fermer England and there's another Iron+copper in the big Island. So i think it can be ready in 10 turns. Even less if we run engineers instead of merchants. I'm still not sure about the benfits of Sushi.
I also propose to switch now to AL, then straight to the Superconductors path.
UT, yo're UP. Is it better for you play a long splitted set or do you prefer a short (13 turns) set? Are your schools duties finished?
Just a flaw: you forgot to bribe G to peace with dG and possibly with Mao while giving him Economics. BTW, what does he gave us for that? In any case, we were successful, he revolted to FM.
I see our stack ready to begin with Mao this turn. I also see 2 units in the no man's land in former England. I think 2 knights can take care of them.
We need also some MG for stack/city defense. After Mao we'll start immediately with Roos. I think a couple airships can help.
Civics
for sure: stay in Representation, FM (or we'll be ruined), FR and caste.
less sure about bureaucracy: we have 28 Towns (according to F9) and 25 Villages (some of them soon being Town). If we adopt Free Speech we'll save over 20gpt (it's less expensive than Bureau) and gain 28*2 commerce from towns, with more to come after the villages will mature. I think this is more than we can gain from Bureaucracy, if you don't mind the production bonus.
In the beginning of the game i was convinced that the only race at risk could be the Lib one. But thanks to his wonders and probably to the techs we gave to G and that Roos surely have traded, he beaten us to Physics. I expected this, of course during my TS.
Another flaw: Rostov is building wealth. It could have started the SoL the preceding turn. Let's do it now!
I'm even thinking to not burn the GE on it. It's 10 turns with 3 more of GAge, but we'll soon have 2 more MI resources from fermer England and there's another Iron+copper in the big Island. So i think it can be ready in 10 turns. Even less if we run engineers instead of merchants. I'm still not sure about the benfits of Sushi.
I also propose to switch now to AL, then straight to the Superconductors path.
UT, yo're UP. Is it better for you play a long splitted set or do you prefer a short (13 turns) set? Are your schools duties finished?
Fluroscent
Emperor
It looks quite good now. Only major push we need to prioritize is factories+plants. Rest is just managing the war+fallout cleaning while optimizing the space launch.
Tech:
Assembly Line, definitely. Factories+plants will push our economy to the final stage once most of our cities produce wealth/research. We are getting a setup where the space age will be ultra quick.
We do need a food corporation, especially since we are opting for caste system, but I am thinking we should go for cereal mills over sushi for four reasons:
- Medicine is a dead end tech, and we should be able to get by without hospitals.
- We can go for Refrigeration and still beeline superconductors, albeit slightly more beakers required than through computers.
- Cereal mills have a better food per gold output than sushi, since it does not spend a portion on culture.
- We have enough grains to make it powerful enough for our purposes.
So we should go Assembly Line->Biology->Physics->Electricity->Refrigeration->Superconductors.
Civics:
Agree with Blub, Free Speech is going to be better than Bureaucracy at this point. Caste/FM/FR I think we have agreement on.
Obviously we need to do the switch as soon as possible. The switch will greatly help the economy.
Notes:
-Need to build frigates in CI to cover our islands when we start the war on Roosevelt, which is soon. Need to get combat promotions on them so they can beat other frigates.
-In the same vein, we need a rifle up at the American knight at Novogrod now so we can kill it when we DOW.
-We need to bring the MGs with our army, and leave lesser units behind as MPs. The way the land is shaped, we can press forward while covering our back cities easily, so let's use this to our advantage. We also will face airships, which MGs can intercept, so we want them in our main stack vs Roosevelt.
-No to building more MGs though. Better wait a bit and build infantry if anything. Roos still does not have Rifling, but unless he is going for electricity, we probably will see rifles before we DOW him.
-Before we switch civics, we should draft once more from Bryansk and Smolensk. Actually, twice from Bryansk is good.
-We should probably limit whipping to new cities that are starving/don't have CH yet.
-Workers on big island should hook the remaining metals before other tile improvements.
-We should wait five turns before settling+gifting the iceball. That way the borders will close and he won't send units down there, relaxing our need for city defenders in our former english cities.
-We should DOW Mao right away. No need to wait. But we do need to be careful about workers on the border not being killed.
-We probably should DOW Roosevelt before taking Xian, since Beijing is in the way, and we might catch it still in revolt, making it a good place to take out Roosevelt's stack.
-We don't need to defend our former English cities from Churchill before we are ready to take his last two cities. Let's kill the Chinese muskets and ship the units there to the front.
I think we should use the GE. Those hammers will become worth a lot more from the 5-6 turns we have with extra specialists, and the wealth we can build instead afterwards.
-The GS we probably will pop from Moscow soon should be saved for a golden age, as all future great people should.
Later on, we simply build research when we have enough wealth.
Tech:
Assembly Line, definitely. Factories+plants will push our economy to the final stage once most of our cities produce wealth/research. We are getting a setup where the space age will be ultra quick.
We do need a food corporation, especially since we are opting for caste system, but I am thinking we should go for cereal mills over sushi for four reasons:
- Medicine is a dead end tech, and we should be able to get by without hospitals.
- We can go for Refrigeration and still beeline superconductors, albeit slightly more beakers required than through computers.
- Cereal mills have a better food per gold output than sushi, since it does not spend a portion on culture.
- We have enough grains to make it powerful enough for our purposes.
So we should go Assembly Line->Biology->Physics->Electricity->Refrigeration->Superconductors.
Civics:
Agree with Blub, Free Speech is going to be better than Bureaucracy at this point. Caste/FM/FR I think we have agreement on.
Obviously we need to do the switch as soon as possible. The switch will greatly help the economy.
Notes:
-Need to build frigates in CI to cover our islands when we start the war on Roosevelt, which is soon. Need to get combat promotions on them so they can beat other frigates.
-In the same vein, we need a rifle up at the American knight at Novogrod now so we can kill it when we DOW.
-We need to bring the MGs with our army, and leave lesser units behind as MPs. The way the land is shaped, we can press forward while covering our back cities easily, so let's use this to our advantage. We also will face airships, which MGs can intercept, so we want them in our main stack vs Roosevelt.
-No to building more MGs though. Better wait a bit and build infantry if anything. Roos still does not have Rifling, but unless he is going for electricity, we probably will see rifles before we DOW him.
-Before we switch civics, we should draft once more from Bryansk and Smolensk. Actually, twice from Bryansk is good.
-We should probably limit whipping to new cities that are starving/don't have CH yet.
-Workers on big island should hook the remaining metals before other tile improvements.
-We should wait five turns before settling+gifting the iceball. That way the borders will close and he won't send units down there, relaxing our need for city defenders in our former english cities.
-We should DOW Mao right away. No need to wait. But we do need to be careful about workers on the border not being killed.
-We probably should DOW Roosevelt before taking Xian, since Beijing is in the way, and we might catch it still in revolt, making it a good place to take out Roosevelt's stack.
-We don't need to defend our former English cities from Churchill before we are ready to take his last two cities. Let's kill the Chinese muskets and ship the units there to the front.
Of course it should build SoL, but we only just got Democracy, so we didn't waste any turnsBlubmuz said:
I think we should use the GE. Those hammers will become worth a lot more from the 5-6 turns we have with extra specialists, and the wealth we can build instead afterwards.
-The GS we probably will pop from Moscow soon should be saved for a golden age, as all future great people should.
Remember we have to switch all our wealth building cities to factories soon. It would be great to have some wealth to keep up research through this.pnp_dredd said:
Later on, we simply build research when we have enough wealth.
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
Have we decided yet whether to build fewer workers earier or an army later on? In terms of worker turns, it may be wise to build a worker in most cities sometime in the next 20 turns, and at least begin building railroads towards the furthest fallout. Is it best to send 1-worker stacks to build railroads on every fallout tile, and then use an army later on to do the actual cleaning?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Okay. Got it.
I am done with school for the semester.
I think 2 sets of around 10 turns or so would be fine.
I'll start looking tonight and try to have a PPP for the first half by tomorrow night.
I am done with school for the semester.
I think 2 sets of around 10 turns or so would be fine.
I'll start looking tonight and try to have a PPP for the first half by tomorrow night.
Fluroscent
Emperor
@dredd: Workers are definitely something we should consider producing, and also shipping around lone workers to remote islands to begin cleaning them.
Probably best to just have one worker per fallout tile and no road/rails, except some main railroad to some point. Least worker turns spent that way.
But I feel it could be best to get factories+plants and a stable economy first. After that, we could easily produce 20-30 workers in a few turns as needed.
Probably best to just have one worker per fallout tile and no road/rails, except some main railroad to some point. Least worker turns spent that way.
But I feel it could be best to get factories+plants and a stable economy first. After that, we could easily produce 20-30 workers in a few turns as needed.
Similar threads
