SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

unclethrill · Dec 22, 2010

Here is the PPP for the second half of my TS

Plan to play about 10 turns.

I changed my mind and plan to wait until I have more troops to head on in to church's land. The settler will just wait in place.

I haven't allocated the settler for Roos yet but plan to work it in to a city queue late i the set. We won't need it for a little while.

Mostly it is more of the same. Kill Kill Kill.

I would like to play tomorrow night at work. If there is a problem with that, please post a stop and don't play message. If I can't play tomorrow night (Thursday) then it will have to wait until Saturday (no chance of getting time on christmas eve).

Troops:

Use troops around Nanjing to take city on next turn.
Send both groups to New York and continue to kill American troops and Conquer cities

Send new troops to the start war with Church and take his last two cities. (Be sure to settle new city and gift before declaration)

Tech:

Physics -> Combustion -> Electricity

Cities:

Moscow: Finish plant -> Inf -> Inf -> Cannon -> Wealth
StP: Finish plant -> Inf -> Cannon -> Inf -> Wealth
CI: Inf -> Cannon ->Inf-> Cannon -> Inf -> Inf -> Inf-> Cannon -> Inf
Novo: Finish Plant -> Inf -> Inf -> Wealth
Orleans: Finish plant -> Inf -> Inf -> Wealth
Rostov: Inf -> cannon -> Wealth
Rhiems: Finish plant -> MI/Wealth (as able to build MI)
Yaroslav: Finish plant -> frigate -> Frigate -> Frigaet -> Wealth
Paris: Plant -> Frigate -> Galleon -> frigate -> Wealth
Smolensk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Orenburg: Finish plant -> wealth
Krasnoyarsk: Finish Factory-> Plant -> Finish Observe -> wealth
Khabarovsk: Finish Factory
Bryansk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Tver: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Hangzhou: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Chengdu: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Novosibersk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
York: Finish forge -> Factory
Magadan: Finish forge -> Factory
Hastings: Finish forge -> Factory -> plant
Murmansk: Finish CH -> Forge
London: Finish Factory -> Plant
Canturbury: Finish plant -> Wealth
Nottingham: Finish Factory
Oxford: Finish Forge -> Factory
Coventry: Finish Factory -> Plant
Shanghai: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Beijing: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Guangzhou: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Xian: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Tianjin: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory

Be sure to fill in MI queue when each new one is built in a city that can build it in 2 turns or less.

Workers:

Continue to connect new cities and troop paths with RR
Connect new resources.
Continue to clear FO everywhere possible

Trades:

None likely

Civics:

No change

City Micro:

Of course, check cities after every turn to be sure the right squares are worked and no spies have been added.
Only run merchants except in Moscow.
Run only free specialists unless no better squares can be worked

Fluroscent · Dec 23, 2010

Great progress it seems. :goodjob:

Didn't check the save yet, but I am wondering whether we are overbuilding military with that plan. That is a lot of extra units planned and we are close to done with conquering the mainland, and we probably want to use mainly marines and naval bombardment vs Stalin+Gandhi, which means we only need enough cannons to finish Roosevelt, and infantry if we are running out of troops or we are facing tougher units.

Maybe we can get by with building military in only CI and Moscow where we have settled GGs.

BLubmuz · Dec 23, 2010

Yes, not much more military.
Once we have the mainland we can go after G and S with marines and tanks, supported by some destroyer.

Probably some navy from Paris.

It's not easy to locate another totally not productive iceball for Roos.
Probably a decent spot can be 1N of marble NW of Yaros.

We also must bribe G to peace with dG and Mao, to avoid surprises. I've tried and he asks for democracy. He will complete Astro next turn, so i don't think it will be enough. Maybe we can wait to see what he's researching next or offer him Bio.
Or we can try the "spare for a good friend".

Probably not in your TS, we need to send some workers to clean the islands and the polar regions. I see 1 worker/tile, no roads.

I've noticed many cities with unhappy citizens. We need some market in those. markets will also help when we run 0 research.

I think that after Electricity we'll build Broadway and the Radio related wonders.

BLubmuz · Dec 23, 2010

UT, just post that you have read our suggestions and go ahead.

Schedule
We're in good shape now, provided UT posts the save tonight.

I think we can set a target for launch around turn 300, then we have to wait the SS to arrive. It's 10 turns with 2 Engines, IIRC.

So, see many things to do and the fact that we're on schedule, i propose to play, starting after UT 10 turns/TS.

Next UP is Beestar, but he should be in vacation. It's some day he doesn't post.
So i think Fluro can play next, then me, unless Beestar gives news.

If we can manage to have 2 more sets of 10 turns before the year ends we can have a better sight on the game end. Then 20 days should be more than enough.

Fluroscent · Dec 23, 2010

Roosevelt has a city on an island which can be a temporary iceball, which we can take as we take Gandhi anyway. This gives us plenty of time to build and gift a proper iceball. By the way, at this point we can easily give him some weak workable tiles, there is no way he manages to expand before we can clean the nearby fallout.

We also must bribe G to peace with dG and Mao, to avoid surprises. I've tried and he asks for democracy. He will complete Astro next turn, so i don't think it will be enough. Maybe we can wait to see what he's researching next or offer him Bio.
Or we can try the "spare for a good friend".

We don't want to gift Democracy before we can get ahead on happiness again. I don't think we should worry though, there is no way Gandhi will target the iceballs since they are on a different landmass and not coastal.

I've noticed many cities with unhappy citizens. We need some market in those. markets will also help when we run 0 research.

No markets, they are terrible builds! Only +1 happiness when we obsolete all but silk soon. And run 0% science? Maybe 1-2 turns more, then we can run 100% for the rest of the game (All those cities finishing plants->wealth will be more than enough). Markets will NOT be profitable. We should definitely have Rostov build wealth immediately, and once we get Electricity it can build the happy wonders. Temples/Theatres are better choices for cities growing very big.

Builds:
All Cities (CI can wait) that don't already have them should build observatories after plants. Then we need some cash buffer so we can mass produce research labs once available.

Schedule: I can play next if needed. Easy enough to complete 2x10 turns before new year, I don't mind playing a double in a couple of days. Not too many difficult decisions coming up, just micromanagement.

BLubmuz · Dec 23, 2010

It's what i think about Roos Iceball. Some low-production unimproved tiles do not make any difference at this point. Unfortunately his island city has a border in which cover a fallout, otherwise it could have worked like Madras will do for India.

About to agree for the rest. Theaters are very cheap for us and even colosseums.

Probably you misunderstood my post about the schedule (or i did with your answer).

I'm proposing no more 2*10turns TS, but only 10 turns/TS.

So, supposing UT finishes on turn 270, next TS will finish on turn 280, then next player will play until turn 290 and so on.

This is why we gained some 10 days on my last schedule, giving us more than enough time to complete the game in relax.

unclethrill · Dec 23, 2010

I'll play in the next couple hours.

I'll limit my military production to only those needed.

unclethrill · Dec 23, 2010

Here is my updated plan. I will plan in a couple hours and will check back before I start.

Troops:

Use troops around Nanjing to take city on next turn.
Send both groups to New York and continue to kill American troops and Conquer cities

Send new troops to the start war with Church and take his last two cities. (Be sure to settle new city and gift before declaration)

Tech:

Physics -> Combustion -> Electricity -> Radio

Cities:

Moscow: Finish plant -> Inf -> Cannon -> Cannon -> Inf -> Wealth
StP: Finish plant -> Wealth
CI: Finish MI -> Observ -> Inf -> Cannon ->Inf-> Cannon -> Inf -> Cannon -> Inf
Novo: Finish Plant -> Wealth
Orleans: Finish plant -> Wealth
Rostov: Finish MI -> Obs -> Wealth
Rhiems: Finish plant -> MI/Wealth (as able to build MI)
Yaroslav: Finish plant -> frigate -> Frigate -> Frigate -> Wealth
Paris: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Frigate -> Galleon -> frigate -> Wealth
Smolensk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Obs -> wealth
Orenburg: Finish plant -> wealth
Krasnoyarsk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> wealth
Khabarovsk: Finish Factory
Bryansk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> -> obs -> wealth
Tver: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Obs -> wealth
Hangzhou: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Obs -> wealth
Chengdu: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Obs -> wealth
Novosibersk: Finish Factory -> Plant -> lib -> obs -> wealth
York: Finish forge -> Factory -> plant -> lib -> Obs -> Wealth
Magadan: Finish forge -> Factory
Hastings: Finish forge -> plant -> Obs -> Wealth
Murmansk: Finish CH -> Forge
London: Finish Factory -> Plant -> Obs -> Uni -> Wealth
Canturbury: Finish plant -> Obs -> Uni -> Wealth
Nottingham: Finish Factory
Oxford: Finish Forge -> Factory
Coventry: Finish Factory -> Plant
Shanghai: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Beijing: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Guangzhou: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Xian: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory
Tianjin: Finish CH -> Forge -> Factory

Be sure to fill in MI queue when each new one is built in a city that can build it in 2 turns or less.

Workers:

Continue to connect new cities and troop paths with RR
Connect new resources.
Continue to clear FO everywhere possible

Trades:

None likely

Civics:

No change

City Micro:

Of course, check cities after every turn to be sure the right squares are worked and no spies have been added.
Only run merchants except in Moscow.
Run only free specialists unless no better squares can be worked

unclethrill · Dec 23, 2010

Okay, gonna play now. It will be a couple hours to finish.

unclethrill · Dec 23, 2010

Okay, second half of my TS played. Sorry but I played 4 extra turns (T271). I was warring so hard that I lost track until I brought radio in.

Here is the save .

Here is the Session Log

Spoiler :

unclethrill · Dec 23, 2010

Okay this session log is ridiculously long

So here are the highlights:

Took Nanjing, New York, Boston, Washington and Warwick (along with the 4 in the first half).

Gifted Iceball to Church and DoW'ed him. Took Warwick.

Discovered Physics, Electricity, Combustion and Radio.

Got Copper for free from G.

Spread MI to all cities that are not currently in revolt and have the executive either waiting or on the way to those cities.

There is a huge stack of our troops waiting outside Atlanta. I consolidated my two stacks since all the units are in severe need of rest to heal and make the final push.

The rest of the troops are pushing to the last English city.

We are researching at about 2100 per turn and are almost even on money. I have been trying to work happiness buildings in while keeping wealth building up.

Thats about it.

I'm attaching the autolog since it is too long for spoiler tags.

Fluroscent · Dec 24, 2010

OK, I'll take it in a couple of days for obvious reasons.
Radio was unplanned and a bit of a detour since we wanted to beeline Superconductors. Oh well.
Happiness will be solved by ending the war, we probably should use some culture slider in the meantime, rather than building tons of happiness buildings that won't matter later.
We need to push a GM in Rostov for Cereal Mills.

Back on the 26th to make a PPP. Merry Christmas to everyone

BLubmuz · Dec 24, 2010

Yes, i've seen Radio on the research path, but i thought UT could not even complete Electricity, so i did not commented. I guess we can start with some Radio-related wonders.

Let's take a break for this weekend, Merry Xmas everyone :xmastree:

beestar · Dec 24, 2010

Yep, I'm on vacation as well. Merry Christmas guys, will spend some holiday time reviewing the progress so far

unclethrill · Dec 25, 2010

Fluroscent said:
OK, I'll take it in a couple of days for obvious reasons.
Radio was unplanned and a bit of a detour since we wanted to beeline Superconductors. Oh well.
Happiness will be solved by ending the war, we probably should use some culture slider in the meantime, rather than building tons of happiness buildings that won't matter later.
We need to push a GM in Rostov for Cereal Mills.

Back on the 26th to make a PPP. Merry Christmas to everyone

Sorry about the radio detour. I saw your comment about happiness from the radio-related wonders. I had planned to head to Superconductors but misunderstood that statement.

I agree that happiness will be solved once war ends but I suspect we will be struggling with war for at least 20+ more turns. We still have 3 (IIRC) American cities, all of the Indian and old Russian cities to take.

BLubmuz said:
Yes, i've seen Radio on the research path, but i thought UT could not even complete Electricity, so i did not commented. I guess we can start with some Radio-related wonders.

I ran over a couple turns so that is one of the reasons I was able to finish electricity and radio along with physics and combustion. I also really micro-managed the budget and growth to keep out research rate as high as possible.

So other things to note:

I settled 2 generals in Moscow.
We now have 2 GS in Moscow.
I used most all of the promotions that our army had available to keep the push going without any stopping to rest. This has really hit its apex. I was forced to consolidate the military and push it all to Atlanta instead of keeping it split and hitting the southern city and Atlanta at the same time. Flouro should be able to take Atlanta down with minimal loss of units though there is a MG in Atlanta and it will take several units with it since they are all severely injured.

I think we will need to make a choice between taking out Atlanta and the moving the troops back to Washington and resting them for 3 or 4 turns before we make the final push or taking peace and resting for 10 turns while we heal and finish off Church.
The difference is in the first, we will lose several units in the assault on Atlanta and then we will just have to wait for the left units to heal before we push on with the current war. We also have no reduction in WW through to the end of this current war. The plus of this plan is that the current war will likely be over 3 or 4 turns sooner.
If we take peace now then we can settle the iceball for Roos, completely heal and reduce WW before we finish off Roos. The downside is we will drag out the war with Roos by 3 or 4 turns.

I'm not making any push for one or the other, I just want everyone ot see that we have a decision to make here.

Fluroscent · Dec 26, 2010

PPP

First off, I plan to do 15 turns, since we are going to need a war pause. These turns are not very complicated in planning, but require quite some time to play, so I think we should go to 10turn/sets a bit later, and even less turns/set when we approach the space part rush.

OK, so we are in a situation where we begin to match our final objectives to finish the fastest.
At the moment, finishing off Roosevelt can wait a bit since:
1. War weariness is crippling right now, and will only get worse since we are going to lose units.
2. The only real reason we need to kill him (and Gandhi+Stalin) is that we need access to their lands to clear fallout, and this goal can be accomplished any time before the end, and we can build massive amounts of workers once the war is over.
3. Our current workers have plenty of work to do, so "clearing" more culture locked fallout is not the most urgent task.

So War plans:
-Take Atlanta this turn, then make peace with Roosevelt to clear most WW and to gather some troops at Newcastle.
-Newcastle cannot be taken by force there, so ship some more troops down while bombarding, then take and make peace with Churchill
-Found and gift iceball for Roosevelt
-Then consolidate forces for final push on Roosevelt, we have enough troops, but will need to be healthy and stacked to properly deal with the remaining cities.
-CI will build units needed for naval invasion of Stalin, which is a stack of destroyers to take out culture fast and transports to carry enough marines to take him out in one turn. Once Industrialism is in, build marines in CI+Moscow.

Build Plans:
-No random happiness buildings any more. We need to build more wealth. Only max out happiness buildings in cities that will get Cereal Mills.
-CH/forge/factory/plant/observatory in any city that lacks them
-Wealth anywhere else. We want a cash buffer to afford building labs every city with Superconductors.
-Mining Execs as needed.
-Last iceball settler somewhere before Superconductors.
-Starve a GM in Rostov while building Rock'n'Roll. We have six turns to Superconductors so MM to finish RnR in six turns.
-Once Superconductors is in, switch every city to build Research Institutes, unless they lack the above mentioned prereqs.
-Once GM pops, send GM to StP and found Cereal Mills. Begin spreading to key cities (see below). Research institutes take priority over CM execs.
-After Cereal Mills, build grocer/supermarkets as needed for health.

Workers etc:
-Begin shipping workers to far away islands for fallout clearing.
-Rest is pretty straightforward really. Rail connections, fallout cleraring improvement building.
-Also send some unit to scout the unexplored arctic regions. Unlikely to contain fallout, but we do need to know for sure.

Cereal Mills target cities

Russian cities first
-StP, obviously.
-Moscow, Oxford city can run lots of scientists.
-Novogrod, Unworked tiles and massive hammer potential later when we bulldoze towns for workshops (probably our best bet outside Rostov for one of the heavy parts)
-Tver. Also a prime spot to mass workshops for space bulding one of the heavier parts.
-Rostov, also obvious. GP farming potential for those golden ages while being a heavy production site that will surely build one of the engines.

Captured cities
Canterbury, Xian, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Newcastle, New York.
All these cities either lack food or have a lot of potential workshops to be space builders.

Later on, any city that will build a space part should get an exec, but it can wait.

Tech
Refrigeration(2T)->Superconductors(4T)->Industrialism->Plastics->Artillery->Rocketry.

Can play within the next three days, depending on feedback.

BLubmuz · Dec 26, 2010

Your plan seems OK to me.
I took a look in game, so Atlanta is doable, Newcastle a bit thougher. But better lose some unit (we can build them in a blow) and finish the English. Do we have galleons to ship troops over there? I've not saw them :confused:

Can you be more detailed on this?

Be care to not lose pop in the most unhappy cities.

There's a musket+cat in a former Chinese city, move the musket to the one NW, there's an English galley around.

Fluroscent · Dec 26, 2010

I took a look in game, so Atlanta is doable, Newcastle a bit thougher. But better lose some unit (we can build them in a blow) and finish the English. Do we have galleons to ship troops over there? I've not saw them Can you be more detailed on this?

Atlanta is definitely doable. There is a lot of cannons, some with promos available to heal. No Galleons that I noticed, and no real reason in building any around there, but with rails the troops can probably be there shortly after the cannons are done bombarding anyway

Be care to not lose pop in the most unhappy cities.

Don't worry, I plan to MM like mad every turn

. We should also clear some WW right away when we take peace with Roosevelt.

unclethrill · Dec 27, 2010

I still need to look at the PPP close but as far as our navy goes. I built them in CI as planned but with no short path to get them to the war front, Roos's frigates picked most of them off. There are some but mostly they just got slaughtered.

unclethrill · Dec 27, 2010

Fluroscent said:
PPP

First off, I plan to do 15 turns, since we are going to need a war pause. These turns are not very complicated in planning, but require quite some time to play, so I think we should go to 10turn/sets a bit later, and even less turns/set when we approach the space part rush.

It took me hours to play my turns so definitely set aside plenty of time.

OK, so we are in a situation where we begin to match our final objectives to finish the fastest.
At the moment, finishing off Roosevelt can wait a bit since:
1. War weariness is crippling right now, and will only get worse since we are going to lose units.

Agree completely

2. The only real reason we need to kill him (and Gandhi+Stalin) is that we need access to their lands to clear fallout, and this goal can be accomplished any time before the end, and we can build massive amounts of workers once the war is over.
Don't forget that we have to actually eliminate Stalin completely

3. Our current workers have plenty of work to do, so "clearing" more culture locked fallout is not the most urgent task.

Pretty much all of the southern FO is cleared but there is alot in the middle of the map and up north.

So War plans:
-Take Atlanta this turn, then make peace with Roosevelt to clear most WW and to gather some troops at Newcastle.
Yes you can take Atlanta this turn and should only lose 1 cannon.
-Newcastle cannot be taken by force there, so ship some more troops down while bombarding, then take and make peace with Churchill
I disagree here. 2 turns to knock down the walls and on the third turn send in all the cannons. This will allow you to take out all the units (only 5 there). You should be able to take no losses. Plus there is no way to get any troops there in time unless you wait to attack. RR go all the way to Washington but it is a 5 turn trip from there. The closest unit is in Hangzhou and it is 3 turns away. And it is a single musket. Either way, you can take the city with the units that are headed there already.
-Found and gift iceball for Roosevelt
-Then consolidate forces for final push on Roosevelt, we have enough troops, but will need to be healthy and stacked to properly deal with the remaining cities.
Agreed that we already have enough troops but since there are only two cities on the mainland and to get to one you have to go right past the other, the only proper stacking is one large stack to hit one on the way to the other. The only troops to be stacked separately will be the ones to put on a transport to hit his island city.
-CI will build units needed for naval invasion of Stalin, which is a stack of destroyers to take out culture fast and transports to carry enough marines to take him out in one turn. Once Industrialism is in, build marines in CI+Moscow.
Paris and Yarsolv need to build transports and destroyers to hit G. THe trip to G from the Moscow side is way too long.

Build Plans:
-No random happiness buildings any more. We need to build more wealth. Only max out happiness buildings in cities that will get Cereal Mills.
-CH/forge/factory/plant/observatory in any city that lacks them
The core cities have all of those. New cities and a few stragglers are still building a couple of them.
-Wealth anywhere else. We want a cash buffer to afford building labs every city with Superconductors.
-Mining Execs as needed. We have 3 cities that need them and 3 currently heading to those cities. We will need 2 more for Atlanta and Newcatle
-Last iceball settler somewhere before Superconductors.
-Starve a GM in Rostov while building Rock'n'Roll. We have six turns to Superconductors so MM to finish RnR in six turns. If you remove all other builds from Rostov, then you can run 7 merchants, not starve for 9 turns, finish RnR in 6 turns and pop a likely GM in 7 turns.
-Once Superconductors is in, switch every city to build Research Institutes, unless they lack the above mentioned prereqs.
-Once GM pops, send GM to StP and found Cereal Mills. Begin spreading to key cities (see below). Research institutes take priority over CM execs.
-After Cereal Mills, build grocer/supermarkets as needed for health.

Workers etc:
-Begin shipping workers to far away islands for fallout clearing. All the islands where we have cities have the FO already cleared at least.
-Rest is pretty straightforward really. Rail connections, fallout cleraring improvement building. All the cities are connected with RR already (or will be done in 2 turns. Only Atlanta and Newcastle will need to be connected.
-Also send some unit to scout the unexplored arctic regions. Unlikely to contain fallout, but we do need to know for sure.

Cereal Mills target cities

Russian cities first
-StP, obviously.
-Moscow, Oxford city can run lots of scientists.
-Novogrod, Unworked tiles and massive hammer potential later when we bulldoze towns for workshops (probably our best bet outside Rostov for one of the heavy parts)
-Tver. Also a prime spot to mass workshops for space bulding one of the heavier parts.
-Rostov, also obvious. GP farming potential for those golden ages while being a heavy production site that will surely build one of the engines.

Captured cities
Canterbury, Xian, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Newcastle, New York.
All these cities either lack food or have a lot of potential workshops to be space builders.

Later on, any city that will build a space part should get an exec, but it can wait.

Tech
Refrigeration(2T)->Superconductors(4T)->Industrialism->Plastics->Artillery->Rocketry.

Can play within the next three days, depending on feedback.

BLubmuz said:
Your plan seems OK to me.
I took a look in game, so Atlanta is doable, Newcastle a bit thougher. But better lose some unit (we can build them in a blow) and finish the English. Do we have galleons to ship troops over there? I've not saw them Can you be more detailed on this?

We have only 1 galleon left and it is in G's land.

Be care to not lose pop in the most unhappy cities.

There's a musket+cat in a former Chinese city, move the musket to the one NW, there's an English galley around.

Fluroscent said:
Atlanta is definitely doable. There is a lot of cannons, some with promos available to heal. No Galleons that I noticed, and no real reason in building any around there, but with rails the troops can probably be there shortly after the cannons are done bombarding anyway

Don't worry, I plan to MM like mad every turn . We should also clear some WW right away when we take peace with Roosevelt.

No galleons can be built anyway. Only transports but that is not important. We can take both cities with what is already there. Atlanta is easy but if you spend 2 turns knocking down walls and then on the third turn send in all the cannons for collateral damage, you should be able to take Newcastle.

So looks good. Play whenever you get the time.

SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

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