Stacks of Doom are great!

aziantuntija said:

No point going back to those hideous stacks.

And as we can see, it wouldnt be very healthy decision from Firaxis to make them come back. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254

Click to expand...

The poll was conducted in the Civ 5 forum. It is entirely natural that a feature which is actually present in Civ 5 will be the most popular one with the voters, but that doesn't mean that out of the potential buyers of Civ6, the majority prefers 1UPT.

SoD was great. Sure it had its flaws, but nothing that couldnt be fixed. A 10UPT or 15UPT would bring the best from both worlds and be a little bit more realistic. 50 armies sharing the same tile was a bit overkill. OTOH is 1 unit of archers in a huge area a bit...RTS strategy like and lacking the Epic battles that Civ4 had. I mean, close your eyes and think about the grand war movies. Not really a 1UPT that comes into my mind.
1UPT also negates combined arms tactics and its a somehow micromanagement disaster to move a "grand" (which it never really feels like) army against the enemy. 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 by 1, oh f.ck another of my allies is blocking my way....
Just for the record : I love 1UPT in some TBS games. Panzer General, Battle Isle and the like. Its great there
because of different unit movements (usually ALOT more moves per unit which made different real life battle tactics possible),
because its a battlefield (not an entire world.),
because the units were preplaced (not having to move them into position, which for the player is boredom and for the AI is.... mmm.... difficult to say in a nice way)

Androrc the Orc said:

The poll was conducted in the Civ 5 forum. It is entirely natural that a feature which is actually present in Civ 5 will be the most popular one with the voters, but that doesn't mean that out of the potential buyers of Civ6, the majority prefers 1UPT.

Click to expand...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254

This poll has 988 voters. How many people there are in Civfanatics? Does civ4 forums have another 1000 voters from wich over 70% would certainly vote for ''Against'' option?

You can speculate all you can but what i see right now are some hard numbers ''For'' 1upt.

Another way is to combine it. Make the armies walk in stacks but attack in 1UPT.
F.ex. :

DO YOU WISH TO ATTACK CHARLEMANGE? : YES / NO / INFO (bringing an infoscreen on Charlemagne)


TACTICAL VIEW OR AUTORESOLVE?

aziantuntija said:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254

This poll has 988 voters. How many people there are in Civfanatics? Does civ4 forums have another 1000 voters from wich over 70% would certainly vote for ''Against'' option?

You can speculate all you can but what i see right now are some hard numbers ''For'' 1upt.

Click to expand...

I am not the one who is speculating These numbers aren't "hard numbers" because the sample they are derived from is highly biased.

Androrc the Orc said:

I am not the one who is speculating These numbers aren't "hard numbers" because the sample they are derived from is highly biased.

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Really? Im the one whos speculating?

aziantuntija said:

And as we can see, it wouldnt be very healthy decision from Firaxis to make them come back. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254

Click to expand...

Androrc the Orc said:

The poll was conducted in the Civ 5 forum. It is entirely natural that a feature which is actually present in Civ 5 will be the most popular one with the voters

Click to expand...

I think i just gave you the numbers and you are the one who is speculating

I really miss those SoD

aziantuntija said:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254

This poll has 988 voters. How many people there are in Civfanatics? Does civ4 forums have another 1000 voters from wich over 70% would certainly vote for ''Against'' option?

You can speculate all you can but what i see right now are some hard numbers ''For'' 1upt.

Click to expand...

Members: 201,131

I am for the idea of 1upt too but not the civV implementation.

Arsenic Steel said:

Members: 201,131

I am for the idea of 1upt too but not the civV implementation.

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Yeah i agree that the combat AI could be MUCH better. I have said this many times but i say it again. IMO the combat AI needs a difficulty settings of it own, so that we would have two difficulty settings, one for game and one for combat AI. This way the ones that doesnt really care for tactical combat in civ game can adjust it to easy.

aziantuntija said:

Really? Im the one whos speculating?






I think i just gave you the numbers and you are the one who is speculating

Click to expand...

You didn't just "give the numbers", if you had just written the link you would have done that. But you also said "it wouldnt be very healthy decision from Firaxis" to make SoDs come back - that was speculating, and given the sample of the poll is extremely biased, your speculation was quite unfounded.

Androrc the Orc said:

You didn't just "give the numbers", if you had just written the link you would have done that. But you also said "it wouldnt be very healthy decision from Firaxis" to make SoDs come back - that was speculating, and given the sample of the poll is extremely biased, your speculation was quite unfounded.

Click to expand...

I gave you the numbers that are available. And according to those available numbers, it wouldnt be very healthy decision from Firaxis to bring back stacks. This is what we DO know. Your comment about where the poll is located is pure speculation.

What mod are the screenshots from Vincentz from? It looks awesome.

Stacks versus 1UPT isn't really the debate here. It's the somewhat absurd unlimited stacking that turn stacks into SoD. Although stacks of ennui may be a better term for the things.

Ironically Civ5 has swapped mindless boring combat for mindless boring everything else. Now if only we could have Civ4, but with fun combat.

@ krasny
The first picture is from my mod (see my sig), while the second is a constructed setup of how I could imagine battles to be more epic using 1UPT in a tactical view/popup.

vincentz said:

Another way is to combine it. Make the armies walk in stacks but attack in 1UPT.
F.ex. :

DO YOU WISH TO ATTACK CHARLEMANGE? : YES / NO / INFO (bringing an infoscreen on Charlemagne)

Spoiler :

TACTICAL VIEW OR AUTORESOLVE?

Spoiler :

Click to expand...

OR

SIRE! CHARLEMAGNE HAS BESIEGED OUR CITY OF PERSEPOLIS, AND IS PREPARING AN ASSAULT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO DEFEND OR AUTORESOLVE


LET THE WAR BEGIN!

The second screenshot is only a plan.

I look forward to playing it when it's released!

I wonder how this double screen would work in multiplayer....

LAnkou said:

I wonder how this double screen would work in multiplayer....

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Autoresolve and/or pause game. But I think that 99% of Civilization games are played single player, so even though it couldnt be done in MP it would still be justified.
BTW can Total War be played in MP? And how do they "fix" it if it can.

Stacks of doom were a big improvement over the 'stacks of precariousness' which came before them, whereby you could kill an entire stack by defeating one defending unit.

Call to Power implemented a much better way to deal with stacking units long before even Civ3 came out. But Sid Meier personally insisted on completely ignoring any civ game made by another company or by other people. The end result was the retardation of the progress of the Civ series which continues to this day.

vincentz said:

Autoresolve and/or pause game. But I think that 99% of Civilization games are played single player, so even though it couldnt be done in MP it would still be justified.
BTW can Total War be played in MP? And how do they "fix" it if it can.

Click to expand...

I don't know for total war, but seeing all the cries for MP functionnality in civ forums, i wouldn't say that MP is not to take into account...

To me, I attack early and win early in Civ IV. The SOD I use to conquer the world tend to be less than 20 units, reinforced by units to defend the captured cities and replace minor losses. I usually win in the 16th century or earlier when starting in the Ancient era. Since I attack early, the AIs don't have many troops.
Some of the people who complain about SOD, spend many turns to create a big stack of hundreds of units and then dislike the fact that the AI manages to crank out an even bigger stack during that same number of turns and defeat them at Deity level. Their solution should be: 1) play at lower level or 2) attack earlier with smaller stacks.
SOD is not much different from a big group of zerglings in Starcraft. Sure, if a poorly-defended base is swarmed by them then there's not much "strategy" required for the attacker. The strategy comes from managing the economy to create those units, targeting the right base and the timing of the attack, not the manipulation of the units in the attack itself.
People who like the manipulation of the units in a battle should probably play Total War not this simplistic 1upt battle which requires very little thought from the human but poses a big annoyance to do anything, 90% of them have nothing to do with fighting battles. I could almost swear that the AI is programmed to send units to stand around and block my workers from building roads. That's just pure annoyance, not battle strategy and it happen a lot more than fighting battles. Or my settler can't cross my worker who is busy building a road across a mountain pass. If I stack a settler on top of a worker, do they create a SOD and that's why it's not allowed ? /snark
I think 1UPT is a braindead idea. If it's confined to the battle only then it's not too bad but it is not. Calling it a new combat scheme is a misnomer. My settler and worker are not combating anybody. They just do the usual stuff done in any Civ game: building up an empire and making it prosperous. Why should anybody create 1UPT to prevent that and make the game annoying as hell to play ?

@Horizons:
True.

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And about that pool, I believe the numbers would be different if another pool was created now, all the last post are against 1upt.