thoughts

so been playing Deity games post patch. I just have a collection of thoughts, questions I thought to share.

1) why do people assess their game by the turn number. Like "I reached tanks turn 230" for example. I find this information useless. Since People play on different speeds which affects how many turns it takes to achieve goals. I usually play on quick and the game is over long before 200 turns. Since most things in game scale with the speed wouldnt the year you reach an achievement be more useful? Better for apples apples comparison?

2) Ive been thinking if playing on quick makes it harder or easier for me. Ive been playing diety from the gitgo. I havent played civ since alpha centaur(loved the unit creation). I dont know all the tricks(though the 1000 beaker thread taught me a few things). And Ive been winning deity.

As far as Ive reasoned quick makes it better for the human player. More time to use your 1upt tactical advantage. More time for the 5 horseman to wipe out the continent. On quick Ive noticed several things. Every 2-3 turns the AI makes a new unit. So my ability to scout out the map for ancient ruins is quickly outclassed by the enemies scout spam. Before Ive taken 3 steps the AI is already double my scout ability

Similarly with battle. I always have to pound my way through a carpet of enemy units. Severely limiting my maneuvering options. I just have to grind my way through. Because AI city spam means they generate units as fast as I can kill them I measure success by how quickly I can move forward in hexes rather than how many units I kill until I reach the city and kill it.

And since this is how my battles go I havent really been upset by misplacement of AI units. I enjoy the new battlesystem of civ5.

3) What got me thinking about the turns vs year was I just learned the trick where you do 1 turn of research in a tech and the research agreements skip that tech. Allowing control of research techs. I was able to outpace the AI tech wise. Reaching modern by turn 100ish, 1100 AD it got me thinking how well that might stack up to other players(post patch with greater scientists being harder to get)

Slower speeds are stacked in favor of the human even more than in Civ4. So much that people don't even bother comparing them anymore.

so what do people compare? when people say they did blah and blah by turn 200 what speed are they talking about? does everyone play on marathon?

Generally, everyone is talking about standard speed. Playing epic and marathon make tech beelines so much more powerful. You get many more turns of being the only guy with rifles on those slower speeds. Also the difference between units is much greater in Civ5 than 4, so that's what Dave is getting at I think.

ok, wasnt sure if I had it analyzed correctly that slower speed is better for human. And when people give the turns its for standard speed. Why not use the year since that will help connect/compare different speeds.

Probably because the different speeds don't adjust everything equally. For instance, a Golden age lasts more years on quick and fewer years on epic and marathon. Even though the number of turns a GA lasts is different for each speed, it wasn't adjusted enough to be equal on all the speeds.

bukalski said:

... Ive been playing diety from the gitgo. ... And I,ve been winning deity.

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I'm curious what you did to win the Cultural Victory on deity?
What was your key to the Science Victory?

Probably because the different speeds don't adjust everything equally. For instance, a Golden age lasts more years on quick and fewer years on epic and marathon. Even though the number of turns a GA lasts is different for each speed, it wasn't adjusted enough to be equal on all the speeds

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turns are a more disproportional indicator than years even when not all things are proportioned properly. Turn 100 gets me to 1100 AD on quick but far less on marathon. While most people play standard not everyone does(Im too lazy to sit through tons of turns for the sake of having more efficient movement phase)

What else besides GA are more effective on Quick? What is less effective besides movement, combat?

From what Ive read most people play slower games rather than faster to take advantage of combat.

I'm curious what you did to win the Cultural Victory on deity?
What was your key to the Science Victory?

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science victory is the easiest.

I use the arabs for bazaar building. Double luxuries. I use min number of cities that allows me to grab as many luxuries as possible. The fewer cities I can use to do this the better. The most recent win was 3 cities science victory by 1500. Because of terrain each city was able to grab 3-4 luxuries. Then double from bazaar.

I sell open borders, luxuries, strategic resources to anyone that will take them. I use those to buy RA which are priority. If AI doesnt have money after buying luxuries to do RA I will loan them money.

Once I have full RA I start using the money to buy CS. I fill the social policy tree that improves CS luxuries and strategic resources given. But most importantly you get their science output. Out of 24 city states I had 12 allied and full RA. Out of the allied CS I got around 350 beakers + what I produce. Any luxuries I get from CS I sell to AI too.

I prioritize grabbing culture CS first. So I had around 200 culture and only 3 cities. Allowing me to breeze through policies(also the way you get culture victory which I dont usually shoot for). I dont shoot for maritime because they increase my population which lowers my happiness which eventually means I cant sell as many luxuries. Keeping some for myself. But I do take maritime after I have all the culture.

I research 1 turn in each tech I dont want the research agreements to give me. So I can control what techs I get from research agreements.

My cities focus on production, then money, then culture in that order. If Im going for culture victory Its production, culture, then money.

Its the domination victories that are the hardest. For those I need more cities and things get messier. Happiness is harder so less luxuries to sell so everything slows down. More cities that will need to produce military means more building maintenance. Building units is way more efficient than buying them so you need those cities for production.

More cities also means an angrier AI(settling to close to them, too much expansion makes them angry too). But Ive done it. I play on quick so the AI produces tons of units for every turn you take to cross the map. So I have to grind my way through a carpet of units. They get build as fast as I kill them just about.

I like island maps because the AI isnt as effective in the ocean. You can punish them with a good navy/planes. To play on something like Pangea Id have to slow the game down to even things out in combat. Where he cant create 1 unit in each city for every 1 or 2 hexes I move forward.

oh and political victory is harder after patch. AI is more aggressive about capturing CS. It helps that I take lots of AI money. But theres still always one AI that goes off the charts with money generation.

One of the sadder things about this playstyle is the 3 cities were basically shell cities. Simply grabbing luxuries for me, providing minimal gold, science while struggling to build up their production.

Here's a chart of what's different for each speed setting

how do I compare those proportionally? How much faster is quick compared to the other settings?

Deal duration 25(quick) and 90(marathon). How do they compare to each other taking into account speed with which the game progresses?

Quick's deal duration is 83.33% of the standard's. Yet, as you can see, much of the other stuff is 67%. Then there's the gold gift mod which is 25% higher, which I think might be the gold gifts to City States for friendship/alliance. Inflation is 50% higher in quick. GA's last 20% fewer turns. Quick's inflation offset is 50% less than standard.

Looking in the opposite direction, most stuff, including deal duration increases by 50% when going from standard to epic then 300% for standard to marathon. GA duration increases by 25% and 200%. Inflation decreases by 50% and 300%. Gold Gift mod decreases to 75% and 67%. Barbarians jump to 400% in marathon instead of the 300% that most of the other stuff does. The inflation offset in Epic and Marathon follow the same 50% and 300% increase over standard.

If you want more barbarians for Germany to convert and lower inflation, a marathon game is the best bet.

If you want your deals & golden ages to last longer then Quick is the speed to play.

If the gold gift mod numbers means that's how many more/less points you gain with the CS, then it would make Quick best for having CS alliances.

Everyone uses turn because the massive imbalances of other speeds generally make Standard the only speed people really play on when attempting speed records, etc. Thus, unless someone mentions the speed they play on, it is safe to assume that they always are referring to Standard speed.