unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I agree with stopping to discuss the end game but unless someone is dying to get some turns in, I don't see any reason for you not to bring it home captain.
SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I agree with stopping to discuss the end game but unless someone is dying to get some turns in, I don't see any reason for you not to bring it home captain.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
First, i wish you all a great 2011 
Turn 198 now, 1856 AD.
4 turns of GAge remaining. Bad luck with the 3rd GP from StPete, a GE, despite great chances of a GM. And rest assured i've ran only merchants there.
1 Engine and the Stasis are 2 turns away. I've set all the other components in pause, switching the production to research. A lot of work, but i remember that once in a solo game i has 1 component sabotaged and that caused an annoying delay.
So next turn i need to remove the research to complete all the components at once.
I'm building all the possible Wonders, finished flight, Communism in 1 turn. Set max Espionage. Used the GS for Standard Ethanol in CI. Better than an academy and it counts as WW.
I've took Madras too, it was on the path for the attackers coming from south and its culture was a problem. Gandhi has now his self-built iceball. And he even gave us DR for peace and accepted to revolt to Caste. Yes, Roos is running Emancipation, so happiness was a problem in the previous turns.
All the islands are cleared but the one N of Xian (to take care soon) and i have 27 workers in former India and more arriving. I even deleted some in remote islands. I got 2 transports already loaded with workers for Stalin and a 3rd soon to be. A 4th one has gathered the 4 workers in the island NE of Magadan (our big island) and SE of Stalin, where i wiped Gandhi's settler party.
Since now we have no problems of gold, i upgraded some rifle which have gained the Amphibious promo to infantry.
Stalin keeps his nukes in the 2 southmost cities, which i control every turn with the airship. Stalingrad is observed by our submarine.
In 4 turns our victorious troops from India will reach his SE city and i have already 3 transports loaded with MA and marines 1 turn from his SW city.
We must hit them in the same turn, to avoid he launches.
So, resuming:
2 turns to launch the SS
10 turns to arrive.
4 (-8) to take Stalin's 2 South cities
1 (-7)more, maybe 0 to take his Capital. Depends on transports movement, too lazy to be accurate, it makes no difference.
this gives us 7 turns to clean 5 tiles. 3 full transports to the south (-4 at worst) 1 for Stalingrad (-5)
By then all our continent will be "nuclear free", to be accurate -7 at worst.
So we can make some logistic mistake and lose 1 turn somewhere and still be on time.
If you agree, i can bring the SS to AC.
Turn 198 now, 1856 AD.
4 turns of GAge remaining. Bad luck with the 3rd GP from StPete, a GE, despite great chances of a GM. And rest assured i've ran only merchants there.
1 Engine and the Stasis are 2 turns away. I've set all the other components in pause, switching the production to research. A lot of work, but i remember that once in a solo game i has 1 component sabotaged and that caused an annoying delay.
So next turn i need to remove the research to complete all the components at once.
I'm building all the possible Wonders, finished flight, Communism in 1 turn. Set max Espionage. Used the GS for Standard Ethanol in CI. Better than an academy and it counts as WW.
I've took Madras too, it was on the path for the attackers coming from south and its culture was a problem. Gandhi has now his self-built iceball. And he even gave us DR for peace and accepted to revolt to Caste. Yes, Roos is running Emancipation, so happiness was a problem in the previous turns.
All the islands are cleared but the one N of Xian (to take care soon) and i have 27 workers in former India and more arriving. I even deleted some in remote islands. I got 2 transports already loaded with workers for Stalin and a 3rd soon to be. A 4th one has gathered the 4 workers in the island NE of Magadan (our big island) and SE of Stalin, where i wiped Gandhi's settler party.
Since now we have no problems of gold, i upgraded some rifle which have gained the Amphibious promo to infantry.
Stalin keeps his nukes in the 2 southmost cities, which i control every turn with the airship. Stalingrad is observed by our submarine.
In 4 turns our victorious troops from India will reach his SE city and i have already 3 transports loaded with MA and marines 1 turn from his SW city.
We must hit them in the same turn, to avoid he launches.
So, resuming:
2 turns to launch the SS
10 turns to arrive.
4 (-8) to take Stalin's 2 South cities
1 (-7)more, maybe 0 to take his Capital. Depends on transports movement, too lazy to be accurate, it makes no difference.
this gives us 7 turns to clean 5 tiles. 3 full transports to the south (-4 at worst) 1 for Stalingrad (-5)
By then all our continent will be "nuclear free", to be accurate -7 at worst.
So we can make some logistic mistake and lose 1 turn somewhere and still be on time.
If you agree, i can bring the SS to AC.
Fluroscent
Emperor
Hey blub, good show. I don't mind you finishing it up. Maybe more people should examine the save first though, in case you missed some FO somewhere.
Happy new year to everyone!
Happy new year to everyone!
beestar
subdeity
I had a look at the save and can't find any surprise hidden fallout.
Looks like the result is fairly fixed - hard to see how to shave a turn from the landing time. We can revolt to Serfdom to make sure the fallout is cleared as fast as possible, just in case - it can't hurt.
Could also revolt to Bureaucracy at the same time and run engineers in Moscow to maybe squeeze out one or two more Wonders. :shrug:
Finish it off, captain!
Looks like the result is fairly fixed - hard to see how to shave a turn from the landing time. We can revolt to Serfdom to make sure the fallout is cleared as fast as possible, just in case - it can't hurt.
Could also revolt to Bureaucracy at the same time and run engineers in Moscow to maybe squeeze out one or two more Wonders. :shrug:
Finish it off, captain!
beestar
subdeity
P.S. The progress curves on gotm.civfanatics.net are really interesting. Everyone has gone war, but some teams have skyrocketing culture curves - I think this must be from Sushi (e.g. check out Plastic Ducks in the 1650s ...)
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
@ Beestar
Good to have a confirmation i haven't missed any FO, but the ones i know i have to clean.
No need to revolt to anything to improve our finish. The bottleneck was the Stasis which i built in 4 turns and Genetics, which needed 2 turns since we started research it almost without overflow.
It's because I researched Fusion in 1 turn setting all the cities to research to barely arrive to finish it with some 50 gold in bank. Obviously next turn i needed to set them again to whealth and Medicine started with literally an handful of overflow beakers if any.
Sat>Composites 4 turns
Computer>FO>Fusion 3 turns (GAge+huge overflow from Composites)
Med>Gen 3 turns
I think i've gained 1 turn compared to my PPP, where i did not counted the GAge.
BTW another GAge is not needed, since this one will end after the launch.
With hindsight we could have used a GS to LB one of the last techs, but i doubt we would have gained 1 more turn. A bulb should be some 4K and we were producing around 7K.
So i will use the GEs for WWonders. I wanna build the Eiffel in Paris, the Hermitage in StPete and the Globe in London, just for fun
Next GP will arrive from Moscow, probably a GS, so i will build Alu Co in former India (it competes with MI).
Play in few hours if i don't see news.
edit
i was forgetting in my previous reports, but the key was that i gained 2 turns on the Apollo (turn 292).
1 for the 2 non-matured cottages converted to WS + the hill town mined+rail + GAge
1 to have chopped 2 forests out of BFC but inside our culture with the huge multipliers
Due to this, there was no need to bulldoze towns. They were all 1 turn to WS, just in case.
Good to have a confirmation i haven't missed any FO, but the ones i know i have to clean.
No need to revolt to anything to improve our finish. The bottleneck was the Stasis which i built in 4 turns and Genetics, which needed 2 turns since we started research it almost without overflow.
It's because I researched Fusion in 1 turn setting all the cities to research to barely arrive to finish it with some 50 gold in bank. Obviously next turn i needed to set them again to whealth and Medicine started with literally an handful of overflow beakers if any.
Sat>Composites 4 turns
Computer>FO>Fusion 3 turns (GAge+huge overflow from Composites)
Med>Gen 3 turns
I think i've gained 1 turn compared to my PPP, where i did not counted the GAge.
BTW another GAge is not needed, since this one will end after the launch.
With hindsight we could have used a GS to LB one of the last techs, but i doubt we would have gained 1 more turn. A bulb should be some 4K and we were producing around 7K.
So i will use the GEs for WWonders. I wanna build the Eiffel in Paris, the Hermitage in StPete and the Globe in London, just for fun
Next GP will arrive from Moscow, probably a GS, so i will build Alu Co in former India (it competes with MI).
Play in few hours if i don't see news.
edit
i was forgetting in my previous reports, but the key was that i gained 2 turns on the Apollo (turn 292).
1 for the 2 non-matured cottages converted to WS + the hill town mined+rail + GAge
1 to have chopped 2 forests out of BFC but inside our culture with the huge multipliers
Due to this, there was no need to bulldoze towns. They were all 1 turn to WS, just in case.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
It's over!
Our SS arrived to AC in 1880 AD, turn 310, while we were researching FT 3
This is the save 1 turn before, if you like to open it and hit enter to have the game in your personal HoF.
I managed to wipe Stalin in 1 turn (301), thanks to the fact that i separated the slower transports from the faster ones.
No losses.
All the fallout cleared before turn 304, i even managed to improve all the former India.
Built all the possible W and N Wonders, but the Red Cross. I has nothing better to do.
Moscow popped a GS and i founded Alu Co in Dehli. In the very last turn, the one before the victory screen, a GM popped from London and i founded Sushi in place.
Once completed the SS techs i set max espionage for 3 turns. Probably G has a whole bunch of spies in his former cities, since we caught one and 2 destroyed some building.
I think i have had a good inspiration to complete all the SS components at once.
This SG was a real pleasure on the side of team communication. If mistakes were made they were team mistakes. I've also seen an high level of attention to the details. Maybe not the highest possible, but the one i like.
I hope we can team again for next one, if any. For sure i'm not interested in competitive games in Civ5. That game is really stupid, more with the latest patch.
Many thanks to you all for some fun months.
Now, off to see the other threads!
Our SS arrived to AC in 1880 AD, turn 310, while we were researching FT 3
This is the save 1 turn before, if you like to open it and hit enter to have the game in your personal HoF.
I managed to wipe Stalin in 1 turn (301), thanks to the fact that i separated the slower transports from the faster ones.
No losses.
All the fallout cleared before turn 304, i even managed to improve all the former India.
Built all the possible W and N Wonders, but the Red Cross. I has nothing better to do.
Moscow popped a GS and i founded Alu Co in Dehli. In the very last turn, the one before the victory screen, a GM popped from London and i founded Sushi in place.
Once completed the SS techs i set max espionage for 3 turns. Probably G has a whole bunch of spies in his former cities, since we caught one and 2 destroyed some building.
I think i have had a good inspiration to complete all the SS components at once.
This SG was a real pleasure on the side of team communication. If mistakes were made they were team mistakes. I've also seen an high level of attention to the details. Maybe not the highest possible, but the one i like.
I hope we can team again for next one, if any. For sure i'm not interested in competitive games in Civ5. That game is really stupid, more with the latest patch.
Many thanks to you all for some fun months.
Now, off to see the other threads!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
OK, surfing in the threads gave me this:
Barley Demons - 525BC - retired
ChokoMisfits - 1740AD - Not bad, let's see
Maple Sporks - 1848AD - after us
One Short Straw - 1575AD - Not bad, let's see
Phoenix Rising - 1872AD - Already beaten
Plastic Ducks - 1750AD - win turn 261
T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't - 1840AD - after us
Unusual Suspects - 1832AD - after us
Xteam - 1690AD - Not bad, let's see
So, out of 10 teams:
1 - FE (us)
1 - PD - beaten us
1 - retired
4 - beaten by us
3 - (Choko, OSS, XTeam) which can beat us (or not)
i need to open their saves to have a better sight.
edit: doing so
XTeam, turn 258 1740: they're building Research institutes, but they still have to conquer England and China. And they're dealing with Redcoats. I doubt they can launch in 42 turns and win all the wars by then.
OSS, turn 225, 1575: they have almost finished G and they have to take out Roos completely. Researching Industrialism, no refrigeration yet. Maybe they can do better than us, they're spreading Sushi now.
Choko, turn 248, 1690: a lot of war to fight, Churchill in the islands with redcoats, researching combustion. Let's see, but i doubt they can launch in 52 turns.
I think OSS will beat us. But i think we can have a Bronze this time.
Barley Demons - 525BC - retired
ChokoMisfits - 1740AD - Not bad, let's see
Maple Sporks - 1848AD - after us
One Short Straw - 1575AD - Not bad, let's see
Phoenix Rising - 1872AD - Already beaten
Plastic Ducks - 1750AD - win turn 261
T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't - 1840AD - after us
Unusual Suspects - 1832AD - after us
Xteam - 1690AD - Not bad, let's see
So, out of 10 teams:
1 - FE (us)
1 - PD - beaten us
1 - retired
4 - beaten by us
3 - (Choko, OSS, XTeam) which can beat us (or not)
i need to open their saves to have a better sight.
edit: doing so
XTeam, turn 258 1740: they're building Research institutes, but they still have to conquer England and China. And they're dealing with Redcoats. I doubt they can launch in 42 turns and win all the wars by then.
OSS, turn 225, 1575: they have almost finished G and they have to take out Roos completely. Researching Industrialism, no refrigeration yet. Maybe they can do better than us, they're spreading Sushi now.
Choko, turn 248, 1690: a lot of war to fight, Churchill in the islands with redcoats, researching combustion. Let's see, but i doubt they can launch in 52 turns.
I think OSS will beat us. But i think we can have a Bronze this time.
beestar
subdeity
Good game guys! I enjoyed playing together, even if I wasn't able to contribute as much this time (maybe that inactivity will help us get a medal 
)
Have we uploaded the final save and informed AlanH?
BLubmuz, thanks for your good work in captaining.
)Have we uploaded the final save and informed AlanH?
BLubmuz, thanks for your good work in captaining.
beestar
subdeity
Had a random look at some games ... a bunch of teams seem to be going Espionage, and their AI rivals actually have strong military / technology. They must have played peaceful diplo early on ...
Kossin has a good summary in post 948.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379350&page=48
Kossin has a good summary in post 948.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=379350&page=48
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Well, this fusion was definitely a good thing. Pity Cas and Orb never actually participated. But in 5,5 (the 0,5 is Havr) we've done well.Good game guys! I enjoyed playing together, even if I wasn't able to contribute as much this time (maybe that inactivity will help us get a medal
Have we uploaded the final save and informed AlanH?
BLubmuz, thanks for your good work in captaining.
Yes, i uploaded the save before to post my report and i just PMed Alan, since in the latest games he avoided to post his no-more-usual congrats message.
I will post his reply as soon as i receive it.
Let's hope for a Bronze, i think Gold is already firmly in PD's hands and OSS have to make a lot of mistakes to lose Silver.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Great job all!
I was really happy with the level of discussion with this team too. I hope we can team together in the next one too.
I was really happy with the level of discussion with this team too. I hope we can team together in the next one too.
Fluroscent
Emperor
No checking other threads/saves yet, so I'll go with what blub has learned so far. We are definitely gunning for bronze at best, but that was clear long ago from the graphs.
OSS may still beat PD but both teams must have made a critically different approach to us at some point. Of course, OSS might have issues with the deadline, but let's hope not.
And I suspect from our point of view the main difference stems from the early decision to go to war with elepults with only four cities.
I believe we will not see any clearly better approach than ours for the first ~80 turns (until Oracle). We did really well at the beginning. As we should with the extensive testing that we did back then, extensively testing the effect of minor worker changes etc and actually making very detailed changes with great effect.
Early war was a kind of gamble, and we probably did not get enough out of it to make it better than rushing to settle six university cities and beelining sushi like it seems the two top teams have done.
One thing that bugs me is that we probably made a big error in not bribing De Gaulle to peace when we first got alphabet. That might well have made him build far less metal troops and made our war easier, even if he would have been a bit more advanced. That would be my main regret. It would mean we might have taken a few Chinese cities as well, or gotten Oxford a fair bit earlier.
From what you report though, it sure seems the cannon rush was a great idea. We had just enough to keep rolling without too much trouble once our cannon stack was unleashed. We managed to kill off all the AI before they sprawled across the islands, and only Roosevelt managed to make a serious counter unit in time (machine guns), but we had enough units that it didn't hurt too much.
I don't envy the teams facing protective redcoats.
We made some smaller errors of judgement along the way. I would have liked to build more cities earlier, and we did probably not do enough to make sure all the city builds were optimal, particularly in the pre-factory era. But those would not have been a major factor in our finish. It comes down to the start (Oracle sling- Great) and the general strategy (Early war - semi failed, Cannon rush - success, Mining inc - success, Oxford - too late, not sushi early - up in the air).
To the team, it has been a pleasure. I think this game was awesome, maybe a bit heavy for a SGOTM, but not too bad with the extension. We showed that we could have completed in the original deadline, but probably not as fast in game turns.
Blubmuz, Unclethrill and havr, I think our merge worked out well, if there is a next SGOTM, I won't hesitate to sign up with you guys again. Beestar+dredd, great job as always. We could handle losing some players, though there were short periods with too little activity for my taste.
Pleased with the result, I never expected us to contend for gold with some of the players the top two teams have, but contending for bronze does mean we have done well overall. Now, time to lurk some other teams and see where we end up
OSS may still beat PD but both teams must have made a critically different approach to us at some point. Of course, OSS might have issues with the deadline, but let's hope not.
And I suspect from our point of view the main difference stems from the early decision to go to war with elepults with only four cities.
I believe we will not see any clearly better approach than ours for the first ~80 turns (until Oracle). We did really well at the beginning. As we should with the extensive testing that we did back then, extensively testing the effect of minor worker changes etc and actually making very detailed changes with great effect.
Early war was a kind of gamble, and we probably did not get enough out of it to make it better than rushing to settle six university cities and beelining sushi like it seems the two top teams have done.
One thing that bugs me is that we probably made a big error in not bribing De Gaulle to peace when we first got alphabet. That might well have made him build far less metal troops and made our war easier, even if he would have been a bit more advanced. That would be my main regret. It would mean we might have taken a few Chinese cities as well, or gotten Oxford a fair bit earlier.
From what you report though, it sure seems the cannon rush was a great idea. We had just enough to keep rolling without too much trouble once our cannon stack was unleashed. We managed to kill off all the AI before they sprawled across the islands, and only Roosevelt managed to make a serious counter unit in time (machine guns), but we had enough units that it didn't hurt too much.
I don't envy the teams facing protective redcoats.
We made some smaller errors of judgement along the way. I would have liked to build more cities earlier, and we did probably not do enough to make sure all the city builds were optimal, particularly in the pre-factory era. But those would not have been a major factor in our finish. It comes down to the start (Oracle sling- Great) and the general strategy (Early war - semi failed, Cannon rush - success, Mining inc - success, Oxford - too late, not sushi early - up in the air).
To the team, it has been a pleasure. I think this game was awesome, maybe a bit heavy for a SGOTM, but not too bad with the extension. We showed that we could have completed in the original deadline, but probably not as fast in game turns.
Blubmuz, Unclethrill and havr, I think our merge worked out well, if there is a next SGOTM, I won't hesitate to sign up with you guys again. Beestar+dredd, great job as always. We could handle losing some players, though there were short periods with too little activity for my taste.
Pleased with the result, I never expected us to contend for gold with some of the players the top two teams have, but contending for bronze does mean we have done well overall. Now, time to lurk some other teams and see where we end up
beestar
subdeity
In looking at some other teams' threads, our Oracle->CS time was good, and the start was really good as Fluro says. Good micro and test games, guys.
Sushi + Mining looks to be a fairly strong play.
PD thinks that leveraging Great Lighthouse with more island cities would have helped.
We indeed did well to be warring against relatively tech-******** AIs. There are some scary wars in the other threads where tanks are being built in order to defeat AI infantry and artillery ...
Sushi + Mining looks to be a fairly strong play.
PD thinks that leveraging Great Lighthouse with more island cities would have helped.
We indeed did well to be warring against relatively tech-******** AIs. There are some scary wars in the other threads where tanks are being built in order to defeat AI infantry and artillery ...
Fluroscent
Emperor
I am reading a bit in the PD thread. Now have to look back at ours. I believe Roosevelt built GLH before their date, will confirm soon. How is that for a hairy moment! Imagine we had done a similar start and lost GLH on the same pace 
Funny how kossin thinks we must have bulbed math to make the Oracle->CS that early
Funny how kossin thinks we must have bulbed math to make the Oracle->CS that early
Fluroscent
Emperor
Indeed! Blubmuz reports Roosevelt builds the GLH on T61! Amazing difference. PD builds it T92-93 or thereabouts. Good thing he built it that early though, so we weren't tempted to build it.
With that early AI GLH, we had no chance to build it. I am getting the feeling that the GLH is actually quite a broken wonder. Seriously, last SGOTM, it was a key wonder for teams whose two first cities were not coastal. And now in this game, with limited overseas trade options (mostly domestic on islands), it is still targeted by the best teams. I am beginning to feel a bit like TMIT ranting on controls, so I'll stop here. But you get the point.
With that early AI GLH, we had no chance to build it. I am getting the feeling that the GLH is actually quite a broken wonder. Seriously, last SGOTM, it was a key wonder for teams whose two first cities were not coastal. And now in this game, with limited overseas trade options (mostly domestic on islands), it is still targeted by the best teams. I am beginning to feel a bit like TMIT ranting on controls, so I'll stop here. But you get the point.
Fluroscent
Emperor
And another quite important note: It seems PD is really just kossin+Duckweed. Say it isn't an advantage, I won't believe you 
. Those two certainly know what they are doing.
. Those two certainly know what they are doing.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
FYI this is the reply i've got from AlanH:
And yes, PD seems in 2. I'm replaying our game, starting from the 2nd TS. I've built the GLH in 8 turns, after the Oracle.
AlanH said:
And yes, PD seems in 2. I'm replaying our game, starting from the 2nd TS. I've built the GLH in 8 turns, after the Oracle.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
And another quite important note: It seems PD is really just kossin+Duckweed. Say it isn't an advantage, I won't believe you
And you wouldn't be lying!
Unfortunately, I place too little faith in TMIT! He is usually right though he seems to play less and comment more.
Funny how kossin thinks we must have bulbed math to make the Oracle->CS that early
It's 'cause we rock!!. If we would have spent more time at the beginning to formulate a strategy, we would have been jockeying for first or second. The extension made a huge difference. We would not have rushed testing in the beginning.
Mining then sushi appears to be the winning combo but the early decisions we made look like they really pushed us in the right direction.
Again, I say, this is a really good team. I am so happy that we joined forces and I think that the next SGOTM will have FE jockeying for GOLD!!!
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