OSG 24 - The Guns of Sssla

jmas said:

Refsteel equation: M = [max base damage]
m = [min base damage]
S = [target shield level]
[(M - S) * (1 + M - S)] / [2 * (1 + M - m)]

...Is that the equation used in the game?
By my calculations, if we take the 19 different damage rolls that are possible, and assume there are 19 rolls below that that miss (for 38 possibilities between 1 and 100 on a d100), then I was correct; average damage is around 1.75. But MOO probably doesn't allow for the kind of decimals that requires. Integer truncation seems to be used liberally. So your equation may be much closer to the in-game reality...

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I do not know if Ref's equation is used in-game (ask Kyrub?) but it is correct mathematically, I use it also. The equation is more accurate than the simple midpoint less enemy shield if the enemy shield is greater than the minimum damage. It just gives the average damage if you hit, so with a 50/50 chance to hit you are right the average damage per shot would be 3.5 * 0.50 = 1.75. However getting a 50/50 chance to hit against the impossible Guardian defense level 9 would take a good Battle Computer even allowing for the Megabolt +3 to hit.

The Strat guide Table F-1 is a bit weird and I do not trust it. Even for shield level 0 for normal weapons it seems to miss the midpoint by a fraction for most weapons. For Megabolt it seems to add some odd value presumably for the +3 to hit but the table is supposed to be damage inflicted by successful hit based on shield level not based on chance of hitting. Truncation will no doubt be a factor but is hard to allow for without knowing the precise equation used or even the coding implemented.

I hate to do this, but I'll have to skip and let codehappy make the call on Final War. I spent too much time twiddling my thumbs while planning, and I really have no time to play this weekend. Sorry

Catwalk said:

I hate to do this, but I'll have to skip and let codehappy make the call on Final War. I spent too much time twiddling my thumbs while planning, and I really have no time to play this weekend. Sorry

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OK then, got it.

Take your time. I won't play till Monday night.

2490-2493: Lots and lots of infrastructure again. Getting our new acquisitions on-line with bases and factories.

2494:



IT+100 next, though we won't need it.

Klackons complain about our might.

2495:




Peace is boring anyway.

2496:

Sakkras Strike Swiftly





A rather large Klackon fleet (of junk, likely) is incoming at Warp 1, by the time they arrive we should have bases up and plenty more ships in the area.

We're collecting ships at Beta Ceti for strikes on the rocks' core worlds.

Interturn 2500:






Transports one turn away, should have sent them sooner (bah!) In any case the Silicoid homeworld is shortly ours.

The Silicoids' missile bases are a little dangerous but their shielding is less than adequate -- our Cannons and Stingers ships can shoot right through them. It's like fighting with multiple bomber stacks.

Hate to disappoint Catwalk with no declaration of FW this turnset, but I also don't particularly want to hand a save to Maniac with a final war he said he doesn't want to fight; we'll handily have the votes to win in 2525. We do have an easy war against the rocks (he should be able to exterminate them on his turnset if he chooses to do so) and if we really want an ultimate showdown against the Meklars to finish this out that can also easily be arranged.

Looks good. Final war at THIS point would have been ok, though no final war is ok too. Earlier, I was against it, as it would have been kinda risky and time consuming. I expect to exterminate the Sillicoids on my turn, and then hopefully we'll end up at war with someone else right after that. I expect that we'll definitely trigger final war in 25 years unless we're already at war with everyone else in the universe.

Will try to have it played and posted by tomorrow night.

EDIT: Wow, now that I've actually looked at the save, this game is so beyond over. We definitely need to trigger final war next chance just so we're not sitting around clicking next turn.

Well played, codehappy! The situation is looking great, and we'll cruise to victory from here. (As always, I also enjoyed the bits of wry humor in your report. "Peace is boring anyway.")

I have no doubt at all that Maniac will ice the Silis (and the Klackon fleet on its way to Moro looks distinctly non-frightening to me, though maybe that's because I trust the Sscream that happens to be sitting in orbit there to wipe out all of them if needed).

ToddMarshall said:

EDIT: Wow, now that I've actually looked at the save, this game is so beyond over. We definitely need to trigger final war next chance just so we're not sitting around clicking next turn.

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We should just be able to take a Conquest victory in 2525 instead of triggering Final War, but either way works for me.

I say we just declare final war in 2525 and let catwalk finish the game heheh. I plan to have the Rocks dead in 3 or 4 years. Depends on how much fleet I can get where I want it.

I'm ready to play after Maniac, if that's fine with all of you.

You might get to play tomorrow then. I'm going to get most of my turn done tonite.

Go ahead. I still am not sure if I will be able to play again, especially over about the next week.

2500 - Wow, I can't believe how over this game is. I kinda wish we HAD triggered final war now, only because whoever follows me might end up clicking Next turn 10 times with nothing to do. I really hope we can piss the Klackons or Meklar off enough to get them to declare war before my turn ends, because it's O-V-E-R.

The only things I don't like are planets without a shield and bases making factories, the complete lack of reserves, and the ships we're building in general. I'm going to address the first two, but not so much the 3rd, since I don't know what we'll need to build to fight the next war.

I set everywhere that doesn't have a shield to making a shield (even the Ultra Poor). I set the planets making anything that isn't a bomber to finish one final build (to the click) of whatever they are building, after which they will make bombers.

I set Beta Ceti to making reserves for now - to use standing up shields, and then to save for later, when we're making our final designs.

I set the former human worlds to making bombers.

I make a couple of moves to combine small fleet stacks. That's pretty much it.

Everywhere else is doing research, which is fine. The endless stream of bombers should be sufficient from here on out.

I Cue up invasions of Zhardan and Yarrow. The Silicoids should be dead in 3 turns. (Could have been 2 turns if I'd thought it out better, but oh well.)

IT - Attack on Yarrow.




We lose 2 bombers to the dreads. The bases are obliterated in one shot + 1 shot from the stingers.

We get a couple of breakthroughs



I do not plan to build these, but I'll try to swap the tech around.



Now THESE are useful

Choices in propulsion are Range 8/9/10 and High Energy Focus. HEF is pretty obviously the choice, as we don't need any more range ever.

Top level choices in weapons are Pulse Phasors (these things rock). Neutronium Bomb, and Helfire Torps. My debate is between Neutronium bomb and Hercular Missiles. But hey, I know we can get better missiles elsewhere, so I pick Nutronium Bomb.

Invasion of Cryslon





Hmm, did I mention we could get better missiles elsewhere?



2501 - Cue up invasions of Tao and Ajax. Both of these planets, along with Yarrow should fall in the interturn, leaving only Zhardan standing. It'll fall next turn.

I look into trading tech with the Meklar and Klackon, but ultimately decide not to bother.

I transfer reserves to planets building shields, and to the UR

Techwise... sorry, I can't be arsed to seed anything. In fact. I click the = button and figure we're good with that at this point. I turn spying up a bit. Why not? In 2 turns, I might do max spying on the Klackons to try to get them to declare on me.

IT - Silicoid Counterattack at their homeworld.



As you can see, I've already got a base up, but that base is NOT safe from pulson missiles, as it only has shield 15, so we're going to have to dance with these ships so they cant target the base. We do a bit of fancy flying, and manage to avoid losing anything whilst slaging their entire fleet.

Next up is Tao



Would you believe the bombers never even get to the planet? The Stingers and Cannons wipe out the bases before the bombers can deliver their paylod

Ajax may be a little harder...



Yeah, we, uhh, lose 10 bombers Oh well.

Combat at Tao





Combat at Yarrow





Combat at Ajax





Continued next post...

2502 - Feed reserves to speed shield building. Otherwise, nothing really.

IT - We arrive at the last Sillicoid planet



Once again, the bombers never get to drop their bombs, as the other ships take the bases out.

We get a steal off the Meklars, all fields available. Not sure what to take here. The usual default is computers, but they only have Robo 5, 6, and Jammer 9. Since we're about to pop Robo 6, this seems unwise. Personal Barrier Shield could be useful, as could construction, but ultimately, I decide to take the 50/50 conflip on Hercular Missiles (Please note, neither opponent has shield 25 at their planets, so herc boats could really screw up their day)



TAILS! even worse, we don't get caught!

Oh well, at least its some miniaturization.

Speaking of breakthroughs:



Probably pointless, but I intend to build these things unless we get someone to declare on usreally quickly. Rather than go for BC X, which is a small upgrade, I decide to grab Hyperspace comm, which is almost half the cost. Probably not that useful for us, but you never know. In fact, in retrospect, this was probably

Extermination Time!







also in the news



Well, if they have any sense they are, yeah.

2503 - With the Silicoids gone, and no one to fight, I begin building more factories everywhere except the planets that do not have a shield. Those keep building shields. In order to try to piss the remaining races off, I bump spying to max level.

I trade Stargates to the Meklar for Hercular missiles. I then grab High Energy Focus for Sub-Light Drives ... yes, really, that's what I traded to get it. New propulsion choices are Anti-Matter Drives and Subspace Teleporter. I don't think AMD is that much of an upgrade over what we have (now Warp 8 would be), and teleporters can be game breaking if the opponent doesn't have interdictors, so I pick teleportors. I decline to trade Repulsors for Doom Virus.

From the Klackons, I pick up Ion Stream Projectors for Stargates, then Controled Tundra for Death Spores. I plan to keep pestering these guys for trades every turn they'll talk, to further piss them off till one of them declares.

Here is the current state of relations



IT - We get a look at some of the Klackon designs.



Not much to worry about there.

We get a theft off the Klackons: Construction, Planetology and Propulsion available. Construction is always nice for miniaturization, so, uhh, the picture is missing X_X

[Picture of me stealing Reduced Industrial Waste 40% goes here!]

Unfortunately, the Klackons do NOT declare war

2504- Pester both races to trade, but neither makes an offer I can live with.

IT - We get another look at some Klackon designs.



Two new ones there, and both are decidedly underwhelming. Cloaked Hyper-V ships
I have a nice, size 20 swampland ultra poor to sell to the guy who came up with THAT design

They fight... and lose. We don't lose a single ship.

IT -

2505 - Building Factories

IT -

2506 -

IT -

2507 - Pester the Klackons again. Build factories.

IT -

2508 -

IT - : slee... err, Eh, whats this?





Looks like our alliance is broken. Meklar attacks crop up all over the place. Looks like the alliance is broken.

Fortunately, they can't crack our bases shielding, but unfortunately, they look pretty fearsome in space. Here's a look all all but one of their designs (Never got a look at their medium "Tormentor").



Well, OK, the colony ships of all things DO threaten planets, but they won't stack enough of those to matter.

I took the above picture at Cryslon.

Here's a look at the battle...



I figure we'd best just get the hell outa Dodge, so I order everything to retreat, but no... no, those dreads slagged that whole stack of stinger boats from halfway across the screen in one shot. We also lose a few shadow that cant retreat before being fired on. We managed to kill 1 dread and about a dozen larges with bases before they could retreat. I don't think we can realistically fight space battles against the Meklar, at least right now. Especially not vs fleets deploying Nemesis. IMO, we should just glass their entire empire and hide behind our bases.

The Meklar do show up and break the alliance,



As I said, I don't think we can successfully engage in fleet battles vs the Meklar right now, so it's a good thing they will NOT be our next opponent.



2509 - I tour through our empire, which has many, many worlds completing robotics 6 factories on the IT. But that's all I do. I haven't even fed reserves for this turn yet. Considering the seismic shift in universal politics on the last turn, I think it's counter productive to play one more turn to get to an even 10. Rather, catwalk gets a 10% bonus in his turnset, as I'm going to hand it off right here.

I do NOT expect to get another turn. I think we can win it in the next 31 years, although we'll definitely need more bombers than we have now to do so. If I DO get another turn, that's OK, but I expect that we can win on that turn at the very latest

Rather, catwalk gets a 10% bonus in his turnset, as I'm going to hand it off right here.

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Thank you kindly I shall try to play today and not be a slacker. I'm hoping to blitz the Klackons and provoke a conflict with the Meklar. Those Meklar dreads do look interesting, I wonder what design would work best if we absolutely have to fight them. Glass bombers may even struggle a little due to the combination of HEF and Tachyon Cannons, will likely have to put Zortrium armour on them or something.

Well done, Maniac - yet more terrific turns! (Yours and codehappy's. I won't comment about the person who went before codehappy of course.) As you said, this game is very over.

Catwalk said:

Thank you kindly I shall try to play today and not be a slacker. I'm hoping to blitz the Klackons and provoke a conflict with the Meklar. Those Meklar dreads do look interesting, I wonder what design would work best if we absolutely have to fight them. Glass bombers may even struggle a little due to the combination of HEF and Tachyon Cannons, will likely have to put Zortrium armour on them or something.

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Well, the time-honored solution to invincibly massive fleets is to glass 'em where they ain't ... but our Sshadows can more or less ignore everything. When cloaked - meaning until they attack - they have a defense rating of 14! Even the Nemesis with its attack level of 9 will hit with only one shot in 20 (okay, its megabolts hit more often, but there aren't enough of those to matter).

If you have enough Sshadows to glass the planet (or even just blow the bases apart as long as there isn't an absolute death fleet in orbit) in one volley, it won't matter would would happen when they're not cloaked.

Summary: Klackons almost wiped out, they keep putting up new colonies. Nothing really interesting happened, they were as easy as predicted. Got a bunch of techs, we can make some really nice bombers to take out the Meklar now. Production very high.

We can declare war on the Meklar soon through Final War, so I leave it as an exercise to the next player to make a battle plan and take out the robots as fast as possible.

Status: Our bases are pretty much safe. We have an enemy to pound, which can be taken out easily with bombers.

Objective: Pound the klackons.

2509

- Focus research on Sub Space Teleporter, we may need it as the Meklar can harm our shadows a fair bit even with cloaking. Hercular Missiles are +5, their accuracy is +9 and they have a battle scanner. That's a lot of damage we'll take, really.

- I decide to scrap the old medium bombers, as we need a new bomber design. We can put BC mk 7 and 3x AMB on a small design now, as opposed to level 5 and 1x AMB on our current bombers. New cost is 17, old cost is 13. I name the new design Catnip on a personal whim. Having two bomber stacks in battle simultaneously should help confuse enemy missile bases and further reduce the risk of casualties.

- Keep building industry everywhere that isn't maxed

- Kakata, Proxima, Ursa and Exis rapidly build a small bomb squad to start taking out western Klackon systems. 750 will be available next year, I hope that's sufficient to take out the 20 bases on Helos. Maalor, Artemis, Yarrow and Ajax build a small squad to take out Paranar and Gienah. Dunatis builds bombers targeted at the Texan bugs in the south west.

- Most of the fleet at Moro is sent to Morrig with 10 bases, the remainder is sent to Neptunus with zero bases. The entire fleet at Cryslon is sent to Mu Delphi with 30 bases.

- I decide to put more bases on the P and UP systems, as bases are the only sure thing against the Meklar at this time.

- I accidentally click next turn...

2510

We manage to infiltrate the Meklar with all fields! I realize I have absolutely no idea what tech they have... Maniac's report shows that Personal Barrier Shield is possible, so I make a dash for that. I get Deflector XI instead, hardly a bad deal. In other news, Meklar transports are swatted like bugs at Rigel and Sol. Whole bunch of planets finish producing factories.

- I attempt the following assaults: Paranar (30 bases and some ships, sending 204 catnips), Kholdan (with the large fleet at Cryslon, clicked Next before I managed to actually get them off) and Helos (20 bases and a handful of ships, sending 596 brand new catnips). I cowardly refrain from sending invasion fleets yet, want to see how our new bombers fare as I have no idea how many are needed.

- I build catnips at more systems, planning on an speedy demise of the bugs.

2511

Helos is smashed easily, but the defended fleet fails to realize it's supposed to retreat. So I glass it instead. Morrig and Neptunus also defeated easily. At Paranar, I learn that 10 catnips can currently take out one Klackon base, and the 30 bases there are destroyed easily.

Class IX deflectors and IT+100 hit, I choose Black Hole Generator and Soil Enrichment next. 1312 catnips produced. I realize that I forgot to ask all planets to terraform...

- Invasion fleets sent to Neptunus and Paranar.

- The fleet at Helos is sent on to Anraq, 450 catnips are sent to Quayal to take out 42 bases and withstand fire from 31 rangers. 2512

Attacking Anraq, 409 catnips vs 30 bases + 102x Pegasus (medium with a plasma cannon and some missiles), 1085x Sabre (small with a neutron blaster) and 1 ranger. I wipe out the bases and retreat with 161 catnips.

At Morrig two bases are put up, I put them down quickly. Turns out that it takes 75 shadows to wipe out one base, we can't rely on these much anymore.

At Kholdan I'm facing 56 bases, 1628 sabres and 3686 cutlasses (hyper-v). Repulsor beams work like a charm against the sabres and the bases go down easily.

At Quayal I face 31 rangers, 42 bases and 639 sabres with a force of 36 stingers, 14 beams and 443 catnips. Very minor losses.

48 warriors land on Morrig and engage 50 defenders, 33 survive.

67 warriors land on Quayal and engage 96 defenders, 46 survive.

41 warriors land on Neptunus and engage 52 defenders, 30 survive.

77 warriors land on Paranar and engage 84 defenders. 52 survive.

I grab Plasma Cannon, RIW20, Range 10, Range 9, Controlled Radiated, Complete Eco Restoration and Range 8. They have nothing left for us to steal.

I'm tempted to design a new bomber, but decide to focus on Sub Space Teleporter and wait until it hits. I won't bother with cloaking on ships bound for Meklar territory, they can shoot right through it. I cease catnip production for now, I think we can take the klackons down rapidly with what we have.

2513

Keeta glassed. 81 bases wiped out on Xengara with 2035 shadows and 314 catnips. 42 bases wiped out on Gienah, but lost all 380 catnips in the assault. Kholdan captured. Max pop and factories on most planets.

2514

Crypto glassed. Kholdan defended from a large junk stack. Mu Delphi smashed and invaded.

2515

Seidon captured, Xengara captured (84 vs 205, 45 survived). 4 klackon systems left, all being invaded next turn. We finally surpass Meklar production levels.

2516

3 planets glassed, one captured. Klackons found a new colony in the north west, their sole possession now. Soil Enrichment hits, Complete Terraforming next.

I scrap the entire fleet of bombers, for the net sum of 12000 BC.

2517

Klackons manage to colonize another planet. This is turning into quite the bug hunt. Several techs are at high percentages without popping.

2518

IIT3, Sub Space Teleporter and Neutronium Bomb all hit! I pick Armored Exoskeleton, Anti-Matter Drives and Ion Rifle.

I decide to follow Maniac's example and end here, as my wife wants to go to bed and we're about to design new ships which I'll let the next player do. Happy gaming!

Very nicely done. Looks like I for sure won't get another turn heh. In fact, I'd say if the Meklar oblige and declare war in the next 3-4 turns, codehappy might not even get another turn, otherwise... Then again, maybe Ref can glass 18 planets in 5 turns

EDIT: Hmm, we need new bombers. I'm kinda partial to this design...



Alternatively, you could drop a level of BC to add stabilizer. Note, the Zortium is free, and there isn't going to be any real miniaturization the rest of the game.

MORE EDIT: Actually, I lied. Both weapons and constr are in the %. Kust a tiny bit of miniaturization and you can have combat speed 4 AND BC IX. might wana wait for that.

Nice - things are looking ... well, completely over and won! I see it and have downloaded the save, but I'll hold off on actually "getting" it in the hope that jmas will be able to get his computer up and running in time to grab the save.

If I do play, I'm not going to kill off the Klacks until we're at actual war with the Meklar. As long as they're both alive, we can trigger Final War if necessary in 2525 - if we kill off the bugs though, there's no election, and we'll be hitting "Next Turn" until whenever the Meklar get around to noticing they haven't declared.

MORE EDIT: Actually, I lied. Both weapons and constr are in the %. Kust a tiny bit of miniaturization and you can have combat speed 4 AND BC IX. might wana wait for that.

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Indeed. Is there any point to putting a Cloak on a Teleporter ship though? They shouldn't get a chance to fire on us before we decloak to attack.