[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest

We should infiltrate the Abbasids now and steal paper from Mosul before conquering it.

blizzrd said:

Rum spawns with a small group incl. settlers new Ikonion. If you fight these units on the first turn that they spawn, they tend to regenerate just as fast as you can kill them. But on the 2nd Rum turn, they will found their capital and then move all of their offensive units out of the capital into the open somewhere. Killing these units immediately thereafter does not attract the unit regeneration that would have occurred during the first turn. Rum is destroyed upon all of these initial units being eliminated.

Then on the third turn, all the cities in the Rum flip zone will try to flip to Rum, which will be reborn (if it was eliminated on their 2nd turn). Additionally, Rum gets another much larger stack of units on their 3rd turn, the location of which can vary considerably within the flip zone. But if all of these units are killed and the flip is refused, Rum will be destroyed again.

The Rum flip zone extends into Lesser Armenia, which is why the Barbarian (former Armenian) city there flipped to Rum in our game on this third turn - keeping them alive.

What follows after the third turn is a series (8 or 10?) of turns where at the start of each turn any units within the flip zone will flip to Rum and they will be reborn again. So you have to keep all of your units out of the flip zone for a while to ensure that Rum stays destroyed.

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Hey thanks for the reply. Quick question, if no city flips to Rum will there still be the period of unit flipping and the spawning of the second stack? Is there somewhere were these flip zones are defined or do you just know from experience? Also does this apply to all civs or is Rum a special case?

My apologies for not playing my set last night (other things came up). However, I'll begin my set at 8PM EDT (ie in a few minutes).

@jammerculture re: flips

The nice thing about this mod with flips is that it's quite clear where you should NOT put your units in, because your culture won't encompass those areas for a while. That is why I had the cataphract stack near Sevasteia just south of Samsounta (still in our culture, i.e. not going to flip to Rum).

It's also important to win battles against Rum next to your cities that want to flip, because your culture won't expand for a while (even though it should based on the city's culture), and your cities will starve. Winning battles will allow the city influence to increase, temporarily combating starvation.

Flip zones = core provinces

jammerculture said:

Hey thanks for the reply. Quick question, if no city flips to Rum will there still be the period of unit flipping and the spawning of the second stack? Is there somewhere were these flip zones are defined or do you just know from experience? Also does this apply to all civs or is Rum a special case?

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Your question regarding the flip zone has already been answered, but your question about the second stack has not.

As I understand it, the second stack is scripted to arrive (with or without war with Byzantium?) and is independent of whether any cities flipped.

Ottoman spawn works in the same way as Rum for all of this.

Science Rules said:

My apologies for not playing my set last night (other things came up). However, I'll begin my set at 8PM EDT (ie in a few minutes).

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Is there a problem Science Rules?

I can play tonight (about 9 hours from now).

Done.

I'm having issues with CTD each time I hit ALT-Tab, so my notes are incomplete:

Turn 0: 1097 AD: Reroute spy stationed in Samarra to head to Mosul

Turn 1: 1098 AD: Refuse requests from Fatimids and Antioch to declare war on the other. At the cost of one trebuchet, I raze Iustinopolis.
Ankara finishes trebuchet begins another. Jerusalem relic sent to Trapezum for safekeeping.

Turn 2: 1100 AD: Constantinople finishes textile factory; begins barracks. Kayseri finishes heavy infantry; begins trebuchet. Sivas finishes university; begins tannery.
Seljuks & Ghanzivids declare war. Reliquary built in Constaninople

Turn 3: 1101 AD: Constantinople finishes barracks; begins Genoan quarter.
Dorylaion finishes hospital; Sinopi finishes Cathedral; Damaskos finishes Jewish Quarter; all begin weaver (I like textile factories).
Ankara finishes trebuchet; begins another.

Turn 4: 1103 AD: Gave up taking detailed notes after a recurring CTD.

Basically, I made Ankara & Sivas auto-produce trebuchets infinitely. Next player should turn off the auto production after a while. I built a hole bunch of weavers and textile factories (some are still in progress). I began Al-Jazair's workshop in Smyrna. I lost a worker in Syria to a barbarian. I stole Paper on my tenth turn so the capture of Mosul can happen two turns from now. Lastly, I didn't purge any religions from Damascus yet because I don't know who we want to persecute (Shia, Sunni or Jew). The Italians are starting to set up shop in Anatolia and I started building their special quarters.

I'm sorry for breaking up our momentum; hopefully we can recover it.

Some random comments:

Dorylaion needs 2 more watermills turned into farms (one can be used by Ankyra). I would STOP the cottage building SW of Dorylaion--that tile will never be worked due to the food limit of that city, and it's best to keep the forest for health.
Ankyra and Amastris can both use one more windmill on grassland hills.
Samsounta also needs more farms and needs to work water tiles to grow.
Sevasteia needs a windmill on the grassland hill.
All trees should be chopped that are not being worked outside cities' BFCs.
What about promoting that swordsman on the Damascus iron to a heavy infantry and using him for attacking cities?
OB with KoJ?
Where exactly are the PoA units??
After the Zengids spawn, maybe it's time to build a city east of former Antioch.

I saw the PoA units mill around before they headed north towards Armenia

AP--thank you for the tips about worker management because I really didn't know what I was doing with them.

Science Rules said:

I saw the PoA units mill around before they headed north towards Armenia

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Actually, the PoA units were in Sinai at the beginning of my turn set, heading for the Fatimid capital.

I completed the turns last night. I'll post the details later this morning.

They must've turned around and snuck past in the Fog of War. I stopped seeing them two turns after they spawned.

Assuming you're running agrarianism, my basic rules for improving tiles in this mod--Build watermills until you can chop forests, then go by the following rules:
1. If it cannot be worked on (i.e. the food isn't enough to support a pop to work it), leave it alone, especially if forest
2. If it can be farmed for 2 or more food, farm it
3. Cottages are basically useless unless you are in India. Before, I was building cottages at places like the forest SW of Attaleia, but now that there are lumbermills, I would rather leave a forest untouched for the lumbermill.
4. Plain hills with forests should be left alone, unless you have spare population to work it as a windmill
5. Grassland hills should always be windmilled, with or without forests
6. Most cities just need 1-2 mines on plain hills, not ALL of them, because they won't be worked on.

Turn 0: 1112AD
Move Great Scientist in Tarsos (did he just spawn on this turn?) towards Smyrna, our science-focused city. Promote our Spy (recently returned to the captial) to Infiltration II (+1 movement) and with the extra movement, start heading back towards the Abbasid cities. Switch Ankyra to build a Hospital so that it can also build the Medical University. Move our Relic waiting in Trapezounta (waiting for what?) towards Sinope, our third largest city behind Smyrna and the capital. The earlier we build a Reliquary in a city, the sooner we get the extra +2 and +2 from our wonders.

Open borders with KoJ. Upgrade our deal with Fatimids from 2gpt to 3gpt, but stop giving them Iron and give them Sheep instead as Iron helps us with the Knights Hospitaller (which is now in several of our cities). Request 80g from Makuria. Request 50g from Georgia. Upgrade our Infantry to Heavy Infantry. Raise science to 80%.

Turn 1: 1114AD
Blast Furnace is learnt, choose Levy Armies next (for Cavalry Tactics and Heavy Lancers). Konstantinopolis finishes Stable, starts Inn. Attaleia finishes Tannery, starts Aqueduct. Sevasteia finishes Textile Factory, starts Tannery. Demand 1gpt from Yemen.

Turn 2: 1115AD
We get the Castle Quest (6 Castles), which we have already fulfilled, except for the Krak de Chevaliers bit. Barley Farm is destroyed by enemy infiltrators @ Sevasteia. Our Great Scholar builds an Alchemists Lab in Smyrna (~+20pt). Our Religious Prosecutor removes Sunni Islam from Kaiseria.

Our troops set to pillaging cottages/hamlets around Al-Mosul (~+50g). Most of our catapults only have 8XP so I get some easy wins on the unlucky Abbasid Axemen hiding in Al-Mosul. I decide not to capture yet and get some more XP for the catapults first over the coming turns. There is still about 7-8 turns until the Zengid spawn, so no rush to raze Al-Mosul yet.

Turn 3: 1117AD
Attaleia finishes Aqueduct, starts Inn. Sevasteia finishes Tannery, starts Religious Prosecutor. Trapezounta finishes Hospital, starts Genoan Quarter. Castle Quest comes in. Choose +3 attitude from all leaders (over City Garrison promotion for all Melee units). Our Relic is turned into a Reliquary in Sinope. Open Borders with Ajmer. Upgrade our deal with Makuria from 3gpt to 4gpt. Fatimids are now Pleased with us so I request 110g for a 10 turns of peace treaty.

Turn 4: 1118AD
Konstantinopolis finishes Inn, starts Brothel. Amastris finishes Hospital, starts Weaver. Sinopi finishes Textile Factory, starts Inn. Samsounta finishes Weaver, starts Textile Factory. Upgrade some of our War Galleys to Great Galleys. More catapult promoting and pillaging around Al-Mosul.

Turn 5: 1120AD
Levy Armies is learnt, choose Cavalry Tactics next. Smyrna finishes Al-Jazari's Workshop, start Venetian Quarter next. I choose the Segmental Gear (+4k towards Astronomy) over the +1 and various other bonuses that were available. Attaleia finishes Inn, starts Brothel. Tarsos finishes Textile Factory, starts Walls. Damaskos finishes Textile Factory, starts Library.

Our spy arrives back in Al-Mosul. Abbasids have just learnt Civil Service, but are Collapsing. We may not have turns to build up enough of a %bonus to be able to steal Civil Service before (a) Abbasids collapse or (b) the Zengids spawn and flip Al-Mosul. It's going to be a close-run thing.

I decide to capture Al-Mosul, sign a cease-fire with Abbasids and liberate Al-Mosul back to them to stabilize them. Trade Fish to Abbasids for 6gpt. Trade Agricultural Science to Abbasids for 180g. Declare war on PoA (who are currently impaling themselves on the defenses of Cairo). Open Borders with Abbasids. Because we haven't signed a peace treaty with Abbasids, we can still declare and raze Al-Mosul if we don't manage to steal Civil Service before the Zengids flip the city.

Request 20g from Ajmer. Upgrade or Spearmen around Adrianopolis to Heavy Spearmen. Dismiss some redundant defensive units in a couple of cities.

Turn 6: 1121AD
Dorylaion finishes Textile Factory, starts Inn. Ankyra finishes Hospital, starts Medical University. Tarsos finishes Walls, starts Castle. Our Cilician merc Horse Archer meets Malwa (Annoyed). Demand 1gpt from Malwa.

Turn 7: 1123AD
Konstantinopolis finishes Brothel, starts Settler. I agree that we should look to build a city somewhere around the former Antioch after the Zengids spawn. But at the moment we still have a lot of research to get through so we still shouldn't be expanding for now. Sevasteia finishes Religious Prosecutor, starts Inn. Purge Sunni Islam from Sevasteia. Trade Fish to Georgia for 1gpt. Meet Gujarat (Cautious). Trade Agricultural Science to Gujarat for 50g. Trade Crop Rotation to Abbasids for 60g.

Turn 8: 1124AD
Last Principality of Antioch units are destroyed by Fatimids in Sinai. Amastris finishes Weaver, starts Textile Factory. Sinopi finishes Inn, starts Brothel. Trade Apples to Fatimids for Dates health. Sell Selective Breeding to Makuria for 70g.

Turn 9: 1126AD
Dorylaion finishes Inn, starts Brothel. Tarsos finishes Castle, starts Venetian Quarter. Trade Olives to Fatimids for Cotton. Meet Sindh. Dismiss Cilician merc Horse Archer. Steal Civil Service from Abbasids. Declare war on Abbasids. Capture and raze Al-Mosul.Raze Mahabad.

Turn 10: 1127AD
Cavalry Tactics is learnt, choose Economics next. Smyrna finishes Venetian Quarter, starts National Epic. Samsounta finishes Textile Factory, starts Library. Trapezounta finishes Genoan Quarter, starts Courthouse. Damaskos finishes Library, starts Courthouse. Request 50g from Armenia.

Zengids spawn, they are at war with Armenia and Abbasids but are simply Annoyed at us. They will probably capture a city from the Armenians to the north as their first city.

To do:

1. Our next Great Person will be born in Trapezounta and will probably be a Great Merchant. We already have a Great Merchant waiting in the capital, so perhaps use him to partially bulb Economics.
2. I forget when the Venetian Crusade to Constantinople occurs, but we need to keep some units in the capital to counter it.
3. I don't think we should expand yet, but soon. We should discuss which techs are the priority and learn them before our tech rate drops with any extra cities. I suggest Optics and Astronomy after Economics might be the next two techs?
4. Upgrade our Cataphracts to Heavy Lancers, which will require quite a bit more gold than we currently have.
5. Decide where to build Soltaniyeh.

Soltaniyeh in Baghdad or Ahvaz (with a great engineer if we have one).
I agree with Optics and Astronomy. The early we get the observatory wonder, the better. After that, we need to get the techs for Topkapi Palace.
Jusos, wherever you decide to found that city near Antioch is fine, just make sure it can't flip to Ak Koyunlu (i.e. not in Jazira).

How are we ever going to get Catholicism to build the Krak des Chevaliers? Should we help out the Fatimids by destroying the KoJ?

Blizzrd, I wouldn't have chopped that forest NW of Ankyra for health reasons. We have 2 plains hills with windmills that are not being used.

Smyrna should build all lumbermills (preserve the forests for health) after the last watermill is converted to a farm and when economics is done.

AnotherPacifist said:

Blizzrd, I wouldn't have chopped that forest NW of Ankyra for health reasons. We have 2 plains hills with windmills that are not being used.

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There was no health bonus in Ankyra from that forest, so nothing lost by chopping it.

blizzrd said:

There was no health bonus in Ankyra from that forest, so nothing lost by chopping it.

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Well, in ScienceRules's turn there were still 2 forested plains hills (= 1 health, if I'm not mistaken).
Same thing for Dorylaion (1 forested plain hill and 1 forested plain).

AnotherPacifist said:

Well, in ScienceRules's turn there were still 2 forested plains hills (= 1 health, if I'm not mistaken).
Same thing for Dorylaion (1 forested plain hill and 1 forested plain).

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You are mistaken. As I said, there was no health bonus from the presence of 3x Forests around Ankyra. Similarly Dorylaion with only 2 Forests also did not have a health bonus.

Smyrna should build all lumbermills (preserve the forests for health) after the last watermill is converted to a farm and when economics is done.

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Preserving any more than 4 Forests around Smyrna is superfluous for the health bonus, which would be +1 regardless of whether there were 4, 5 or 6 forested tiles in the BFC. As in the screenshot below (from Turn 0 of my recent set), Smyrna has a +1 health bonus for its 6 Forested tiles in the BFC. One (watermill) forest is about to be converted to a Farm.
Chopping down from 6 reveals that the requirement is a minimum of 4 forests for the +1 health bonus to remain.

It seems like a lot of building has been done through the turns. is there any strategy to this in terms of city specialization, building priority etc that I am missing, or just build everything every where?

jammerculture said:

It seems like a lot of building has been done through the turns. is there any strategy to this in terms of city specialization, building priority etc that I am missing, or just build everything every where?

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RFC and SOI (to a lesser extent) aren't like CivIV BTS in terms of the need for city specialization. There are many more bonus resources on the map relative to BTS and they tend to already be next to the key historical city locations. This means that you don't really need to focus cities on specialization in RFC/SOI to quite the same extent as you do in BTS.

Food is the hardest commodity to come by in SOI, so any building which helps with food is a priority. Hammers are next hardest to come by, so the buildings which give bonuses to hammer production should be prioritized next. Then build health buildings to keep cities growing and (where you have access to the Wonders) religious buildings should only generally be prioritized if the applicable Wonders are available.

City specialization in SOI is only really important to the extent of choosing where to place the various National Wonders in my opinion.