[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest

Thanks for the help guys. i learned civ and get to the point where I could win emperor on occasion by reading and contributing in these types of games (ALC, voiceofunreason threads etc). However with RFC and especially SOI these types of threads don't really exist anymore, and when they do they are full of veterans who take certain knowledge for granted, like the way to best utilize buildings for example, so it can get difficult to follow along and extract the knowledge. I appreciate you guys answering my questions. My game has gotten much better since you all started these succession games!

blizzrd said:

[forestry and health]

Click to expand...

Ah, so I see. Maybe that's why the plague hits so much harder then in SOI. My mistake.

I am playing tonight, but I probably won't have time to post until tomorrow.

I can play now and post too, if you want to pick up after me today?

Why is Smyrna the Science and GP city?

Only 2 national wonders per city allowed in this mod. Capital has Royal Mint, I guess you can reasonably build the Royal Archives or National Epic there too, but not both.

Smyrna is a large city that can usually accommodate specialists, and also attracts a lot of companies. (Right now it has more companies than the capital).

It does need more health though. I think a little detour for welfare state (public baths 4 turns) might not be such a bad idea after economics.

AnotherPacifist said:

Only 2 national wonders per city allowed in this mod. Capital has Royal Mint, I guess you can reasonably build the Royal Archives or National Epic there too, but not both.

Click to expand...

True that there is a limit of constructing 2 national wonders per city in this mod, because Smyrna can only build National Epic and Royal Archives before getting the "2 National Wonders per city" warning. But interestingly Konstantinopolis (which already has Palace and Royal Mint) can currently begin construction of Royal Mausoleum without getting the "2 National Wonders per city" warning.

Does this mean that an exception has been made for the Palace, or that because the Palace wasn't "constructed" (it was a starting building) that it is excepted from the 2 per city rule?

Palace isn't a national wonder AFAIK.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158353

So speaking of national wonders, if somewhere in Iraq we're going to build Soltaniyeh, where should we build the Summer Palace? Do we want the benefits now (e.g. in Sevasteia or Damascus), or should we wait till Egypt is subdued and build it there? Jerusalem might not be such a bad place either (will cover Yemen, Egypt and Damascus).

AnotherPacifist said:

Palace isn't a national wonder AFAIK.

Click to expand...

It most certainly is a National Wonder.
But because it hasn't been constructed, it may be excepted from the 2 per city rule?

So speaking of national wonders, if somewhere in Iraq we're going to build Soltaniyeh, where should we build the Summer Palace? Do we want the benefits now (e.g. in Sevasteia or Damascus), or should we wait till Egypt is subdued and build it there? Jerusalem might not be such a bad place either (will cover Yemen, Egypt and Damascus).

Click to expand...

Jerusalem would be a good choice for the Summer Palace in my opinion. It would also be valid for constructing Krak de Chevaliers.

I tested building a palace in Ankara, where we have the heroic epic. Even after building the palace, it was possible to construct a third national wonder.

I think the difference is whether the national wonder is a "monument" (see the file CIV4BuildingClassInfos.xml in the XML folder). Palace is not a "monument" but the iMaxPlayerInstance is 1, while all the other national wonders are monuments and their instances are 1 as well.

Great Wonders are not "monuments" either but their global instances are set at 1.

Turn 0 I partially bulb Economics to get to Astronomy faster. Also after we take Iraq bulbing isn't useful anymore.

Turn 1 Courthouses started all around. Toying with the Abbasids to get more XPs.

Turn 2 Settler is finished and it heads towards northern Syria.

Turn 3 Still building courthouses. Our small stack is moving on the south side of Samarra to lose the river penalty.

Turn 4 Economics is finished, next Optics in 5 turns. Great Engineer and a Great General are born simultaniously in Trapezounta. Great Engineer can be saved for hurrying Soltaniyeh in Baghdad or Ahvaz, while the Great General is going to be settled in Attaleia. Fatimids capture Jerusalem and the KoJ is destroyed. This is actually good for us.


Turn 5 Sieging Samarra and collecting experience points for our trebutchets. Armenia takes Jerusalem! That isn't good, let's hope that the Fatimids take it back soon.


Turn 6 Siege of Samarra continues. Venetian Merchants spread to Constantinople! The increased cash flow allows us to put the science slider 90%. Confectioners and butcheries are built everywhere. I trade fish for sugar with the Fatimids.


Turn 7 Siege continues. At 90% science we are still getting +8gpt.

Turn 8 Optics is learned a turn earlier. Next Astronomy in 6 turns. Smyrna finishes the National Epic. Abbasids are going for Guilds are soon to be destroyed, so I switch espionage on Fatimids.

Turn 9 Siege of Samarra continues.

Turn 10 Great Scientist is born in Smyrna, I partially bulb Astronomy (2 turns left) with due to the same reasoning as above. The faster we get the +25% in all cities the better. We are making 1000 beakers per turn. Toying with the Abbasdis continues and our trebutchets are closing in on the 4th promotion.



Notes and suggestions

-After we get Astronomy, we should blizt Iraq and build the Soltaniyeh in there.
-Prepare for possible Ayyubid spawn and the crusade event (around 1200)
-We should found one or two cities around northern Syria. The best options are Hamah between the barley and wheat and another city 1E or 2E from the horse. This city would satisfy the requirement to have a city in every civs core area. (PoA's core NSyria and Edessa, Hamah is in Syria.) Hamah should be founded first, but only after we see whether Ayyubids spawn or not.



AP, I had already played when I saw your post.

Why Attaleia? If we have 3 GG's in Ankyra, we can get triply promoted archers and cavalry (e.g. those that have the anti-horse archer promotion).

0. Juggled some city tiles (e.g. maximized commerce from the windmills around Dorylaion and Ankyra, and worked some water tiles to maximize population growth). We're making plenty of espionage so I unworked some spies. Why are we building forts when workers should be building lumbermills around Smyrna? I sent some back there.
1. Killed 4 units in Samarra. Killed a barb Fidai south of Damascus.
2. Astronomy done, chose banking next. Captured Samarra. Hamah founded.

3. Fatimids recapture Jerusalem. Demand 50 g from Georgia.
4. Upgraded 2 cataphracts to heavy lancers.
5. Fatimids now have the sheep near Jerusalem, but are willing to buy honey from us for 4g. Start Ulugh Beg Observatory in capital. Baghdad captured.
6. Assassins in place in Al-Kufah and Wasit. Inch troops towards them. Sent great engineer closer to the front lines.
7. Oh noes! the Latins revolt. (the other choice was to remove the Genoans only and have all coastal cities revolt for 1-4 turns--which kills our economy) I just built a Genoan quarter in Tarsus, and was about to finish one in Attaleia! We prepare for the Venetian Crusade accordingly. Purge Sunni from Dorylaion.

8. Samarra gets Orthodox, comes out of rebellion. Kufa captured.
9. 3 units got killed by suicide attacks by the Abbasids. The great engineer arrives in Baghdad (still in revolt)
10. Abbasids collapse. Orthodoxy spread in Baghdad. Hamah's culture expand. Switch espionage to the Seljuks since we're still at war with them.


To do:
1. Banking will be done next turn, after the Ulugh Beg Observatory is done in the capital, build Grand Bazaar there. I would go for black powder next.
2. I think the Venetian crusade is coming around 1200. We have plenty of troops in the capital, would send more troops towards Iraq.
3. Make peace with Seljuks while we consolidate Iraq? Remember the Mongols will be coming around 1220 or so (they don't reach Iraq till later).
4. Spread Orthodoxy to Iraq.
5. If I'm not mistaken, the Georgians might declare war on us if the Seljuks bribe them (or if they are just being an ass and doing it for fun). That was the reason I begged for gold from them in my turnset and that's why Trapezounta has 2 troops, and might need more.
6. The Fatimids seem to be preparing for something (scouting our territory and building trebuchets). Best be prepared around Damascus.
7. Ayyubids are supposed to spawn in 1169, so buff up the Fatimids if possible (now only stable/shaky). We might even consider bribing the Armenians to make peace with the Fatimids (they'll do it for free right now).

AnotherPacifist said:

Why Attaleia? If we have 3 GG's in Ankyra, we can get triply promoted archers and cavalry (e.g. those that have the anti-horse archer promotion).

Click to expand...

Ankyra already gives us those, that's why. Remember the Minaret of the Jam...

Jusos2108 said:

snip..
Minaret of the Jam is great because you can get triple promoted units with just two settled generals. And cavalry & archery units only need one settled GG.

Click to expand...

Jusos2108 said:

Ankyra already gives us those, that's why. Remember the Minaret of the Jam...

Click to expand...

Oh duh.
But then I would have settled the GG in Damascus to get more promoted trebuchets next to Egypt and Yemen.

AnotherPacifist said:

Why are we building forts when workers should be building lumbermills around Smyrna?

Click to expand...

Because we should close these passages with forts before the Mongols spawn so that they are directed towards the Zengid lands. A triple promoted marksman does the job easily. And Smyrna isn't working those tiles.

AnotherPacifist said:

But then I would have settled the GG in Damascus to get more promoted trebuchets next to Egypt and Yemen.

Click to expand...

No need, since we have time to prepare for every invasion. Attaleia's production is superior. When we have Light Cavalry, we don't need trebutchets/bombarbs.

Jusos2108 said:

Because we should close these passages with forts before the Mongols spawn so that they are directed towards the Zengid lands. A triple promoted marksman does the job easily. And Smyrna isn't working those tiles.

Click to expand...

I worked those tiles after improving them with lumbermills. (It's now healthy and growing).

I'll play in a few hours. Just to check, should we not conquer anymore for the time being, except the rest of Iraq?

As for the requirements, do we need one city in each of the core areas for each civilizations, or a total of one city in any of the civs spawn area?

I would say conquer Wasit, Ahvaz and that's should be it until the Mongols come. Basra is a sh^tty city even if it's the only city on the Persian Gulf.
That's why we should make peace with the Seljuks.
I thought it was just one city in each SPAWN area.
We should decide on which cities to keep now for other civs. My thoughts:

Egypt: Alexandria (has Lighthouse so can't raze)
Makuria: city north of capital (the closer the better).
KoJ: Jerusalem
Armenia: Dvin
Georgia: Poti or Gori (Tplisi sucks)
Buyids: Esfahan
Seljuks: Hamadan (won't flip to Safavids)
Yemen: capital
Oman: capital
Zengids/Ak Koyunlu: wait till the latter spawns

Strictly speaking we don't need Edessa since we have Hamah (should cover PoA).
We also will need to keep Madinah and Makkah due to their wonders.
Also need Rodos, Cyprus, and that tiny island south of Yemen.
That's as far as I can see till late game for India, Afghanistan and beyond.

That's at least 22 cities.