A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback

I have been playing with England and I am in the early modern era by now.
Now what is weird is that I still find Barter to be the best economic civic available.
With Barter I got +500 to +600 gold/turn, with science rate at 100% at Noble difficulty.
Switching to Free Market yields the terrible -1700 gold/turn, because of huge inflation. To get the budget under control I had to bring down the science to 60%...
I am sensing that either I am doing something very wrong, or this is a serious balance issue that needs to get fixed. Version is 1.76 Beta 5.
prtsc from the economy advisor:[/URL]

Hi, I'm not exactly new to this forum, been reading since I first played civ4, but never registered. I'm playing RoM AND (started about one year ago) and seeing how you all struggle to improve the game I couldn't resist

Regarding maximhar's post: Barter Economy seems overpowered, especially combined with State Church (if I'm not mistaken), which gives +25% gold per each religious wonder (Mahabodhi, Church of Nativity etc.) and Patrician (+1 gold per specialist). I was playing Mayans, Standard map size, 7 players, Monarch difficulty level. After building a new city (about a year 1000 BC) I was able to build 20 buildings (big ones, like courthouse or port) in 50 turns. I think it works this way when you play as a civilization starting with Ritualism tech and with small number of civs (you can get to Hellenism, Naghualism and Confucianism before others). I used a strategy of not founding new cities before I had 8 religions in the capital, it worked surprisingly well, I was able to build every wonder in about 15 turns (still Eternity game speed). The Oracle and Cheomseongdae can be helpful if you smash the other civs before they start.

Therefore: I think Barter should have more drawbacks (if I remember correctly, it adds +100% to distance maintenance). This is quite realistic (the main drawback of Barter Economy in real life are ridiculously high transaction costs - because of lack of currency, you cannot calculate or compare prices - imagine you have a book and you want an apple, you have to find a person who needs a book and has an apple; in reality there were certain days in certain places where people could trade certain goods, for example trading meat and livestock every month or some items were considered to be money - special shells in Far East, jewellery nearly everywhere, different metals, copper, silver, gold etc., but still people were using useful materials as a mean of exchange).

Conclusion: Perhaps Barter should have higher costs, not only distance maintenance, but albo number of cities. I don't know what do you think or if it can be done to look realistic (small economies could collapse because of +900% maintenance), but with science slider at 100% for the entire length of the game (Space Race victory) and income +150 per turn in 1000 BC and +2000 per turn in 1800 AD the game becomes too easy for the player. Leave the State Church and Patrician, they are balanced, but Barter is just too powerful. It would be less overpowered, if you could add significant number of cities maintenance - as the empire begins to spread, it is increasingly difficult to manage economy and production because of high transactions costs - does it make sense?

P.S.: I like the mod, Afforess and my post is not meant to criticize you

hi,

ok i defendantly see a bug with the fixed borders/culture.

i have 90% culture on 2-3 tiles - and the tiles want mine, only when i took despotism, which has fixed borders - i got those tiles - exactly after i switched to the civic - the tiles where mine.
isnt suppose to work the opposite way? with fixed borders you cant take a territory without doing clain territory?

i have sceen shots if its not clear. also - im using the latest revision as of today.

Cykur said:

Jungle camps are kind of an early game improvement to make a jungle city viable that eventually get replaced. A big problem is how jungles contribute to unhealthiness and stops cities from growing too large -- damn mosquitoes.

Click to expand...

Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle. (Vincentz lived in Thailand when he made the Modmod and the JC was based off of his real life experience with living in the jungle).

But over time and changes to Civics and Roads parts of it have been lost or downgraded. Vincentz JC was a Major improvement for jungle tiles from the vanilla BtS version. The vanilla version was Only good for chopping down and then using the tile as a normal grassland and/or hill tile. The JC minimod also had a small % chance of discovering various resources normally found in jungle. That too is now almost non existent. Having a JC on a river used to give a bonus not only to food but hammer and gold too. And a hill JC also provided a hammer. As roads developed the JC would get a hammer and/or gold boost like Lumbermills and Mines and Farms, but not now. JC with the original set of parameters was as viable a choice for a Jungle tile as is the Farm or workshop, and a mine on a jungle hill.

Right now, as you pointed out, the JC is only good for early jungle cities. All the rest of it's usefulness has been lost. To the point that the AI does Not use it.

JosEPh

After updating to 1.76 beta 5, I still have the problem with the Rev advisor screen. That is, by default it doesn't show any revolution related information. And when I set it to display those it doesn't save them (albeit trying out the different buttons there are on the advisor editor screen).

keldath said:

hi,

ok i defendantly see a bug with the fixed borders/culture.

i have 90% culture on 2-3 tiles - and the tiles want mine, only when i took despotism, which has fixed borders - i got those tiles - exactly after i switched to the civic - the tiles where mine.
isnt suppose to work the opposite way? with fixed borders you cant take a territory without doing clain territory?

i have sceen shots if its not clear. also - im using the latest revision as of today.

Click to expand...

You can still claim territory with culture under fixed borders, as long as the territory isn't owned by someone else who also has fixed borders.

Danei,

humm ok, but i remember that in vanilla civ, if the tile says its 90% yours and 10% of another civ - the tile should convert to your civ - isnt right?



********
koshling, afforess,

i have something really weird,
i have a ctd upon founding a corporation - i got into the world builder - and removed the corp from the city (with its building) and the crash was gone - it was founded by an ai, took me a while to figure that, but thats what happens.

afforess, i know you dont give support to other mods, but still, im using your code 70% of my mod, all i changed are the xml - you know, techs, units and ect.

i also added the special building tag to every corporation i use (12 in my mod), and i added it to the special building xml file, i have all the art so thats not the cause - maybe you can tell me something that i missed - in the python is there any connections to the corporations?
from what i can figure the special building tag of the corps apears only on 4 files: building xml - info and class, civic (one civic) and in the special building file.
the corporation that causes this is exactly like in a new dawn - mining corp (only 1 bonus i don't have which is lead).

so im pretly much at your mercy, cause other then removing the corp from the city - i dont know what else can i do to avoid the crash. maybe some log can help?
plz help me in this one.

***
can this crash be caused by having six prereqbonus tags on the corporation file instead of 5? (the six is empty - NONE).

Cykur said:

2. In my last game, I noticed the Artist's Guild seemed too powerful with a 50% bonus to culture. Usually I'm pretty happy if I can get 3-5 culture out of a building, and it was giving 15-25 culture to my large late game cities.

Click to expand...

Afforess said:

Lined up next to the extra hammers from the blacksmitchs guilds, or gold from the merch guilds, it's fairly balanced.

Click to expand...

IIRC then Zappara had made a building called Artists Guild that gave 50% culture, and when my 15 Guilds modmod was added, the building wasnt removed.
The Artists Guild and the Artists Guild have nothing to do with eachother

Maybe rename the Artists Guild (building) to Actors Guild to solve any confusion that might arise.

Oh, that . Yeah, make sense.

JosEPh_II said:

Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle.

JosEPh

Click to expand...

Yup, absolutely right, there are different kinds of jungle. It was usually the marshy jungles, marshy forests, marshy marshes that caused problems for local populations, especially non-natives who were not habituated.

I was just commenting on how the Jungle Camp currently worked, didn't fully understand that you were upset with the whole balance of how this game views jungle from a Western / Euro-Centric view of something that has to be removed because it impedes progress.

If someone wants to implement a more realistic balance of forest -- Coniferous, Deciduous, Jungle, Wetland, Marsh/Swamp, I'd play it.

keldath said:

koshling, afforess,

i have something really weird,
i have a ctd upon founding a corporation - i got into the world builder - and removed the corp from the city (with its building) and the crash was gone - it was founded by an ai, took me a while to figure that, but thats what happens.

afforess, i know you dont give support to other mods, but still, im using your code 70% of my mod, all i changed are the xml - you know, techs, units and ect.

i also added the special building tag to every corporation i use (12 in my mod), and i added it to the special building xml file, i have all the art so thats not the cause - maybe you can tell me something that i missed - in the python is there any connections to the corporations?
from what i can figure the special building tag of the corps apears only on 4 files: building xml - info and class, civic (one civic) and in the special building file.
the corporation that causes this is exactly like in a new dawn - mining corp (only 1 bonus i don't have which is lead).

so im pretly much at your mercy, cause other then removing the corp from the city - i dont know what else can i do to avoid the crash. maybe some log can help?
plz help me in this one.

Click to expand...

Do you have any buildings that provide a resource used by the corporations? Having a building provide iron can cause a CTD or infinite loop when you build a corporation in the same city that uses iron.

Conversly if you have the corporation and then build a building that provides iron the building wont provide iron. This is why the alumnium building doesnt provide aluminium.

If this is your case then I have a python mod that will fix it. All that unless Afforess or Koshling fix it in the dll. As far as I know it is only strategic resources that cause the problem. Vincentz discovered the problem when he introduced Guilds.

keldath said:

can this crash be caused by having six prereqbonus tags on the corporation file instead of 5? (the six is empty - NONE).

Click to expand...

I don't remember a sixth entry causing a crash. If I remember correctly it just ignores anything after the fifth.

Edit:

JosEPh_II said:

Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle. (Vincentz lived in Thailand when he made the Modmod and the JC was based off of his real life experience with living in the jungle).

But over time and changes to Civics and Roads parts of it have been lost or downgraded. Vincentz JC was a Major improvement for jungle tiles from the vanilla BtS version. The vanilla version was Only good for chopping down and then using the tile as a normal grassland and/or hill tile. The JC minimod also had a small % chance of discovering various resources normally found in jungle. That too is now almost non existent. Having a JC on a river used to give a bonus not only to food but hammer and gold too. And a hill JC also provided a hammer. As roads developed the JC would get a hammer and/or gold boost like Lumbermills and Mines and Farms, but not now. JC with the original set of parameters was as viable a choice for a Jungle tile as is the Farm or workshop, and a mine on a jungle hill.

Right now, as you pointed out, the JC is only good for early jungle cities. All the rest of it's usefulness has been lost. To the point that the AI does Not use it.

JosEPh

Click to expand...

Just for you Jungle camps from way back. you will need to put the files in a mod and link the mod in but just the two files are needed. Should work fine both in AND 1.76 and C2C v13. May work in C2C v10 upwards.

Dancing Hoskuld,
first thank you for dressing my problem!
much appreciated.

this is one hell of a loop, i dunno how you guys figured it out.

anyway - i have iron mine building - world wonder - maximum of 5 world wide.
the city with the newly founded mining inc, did not have an iron mine within the same city,
other civs did, but they dont have any access to the mining inc just yet.

hoping your explanation could help - i removed any bonus supplying building build in my game - went over every city...
and still got that ctd, only upon removeing the newly founded corp, helps.
i tried to remove it and then made my city have it - still got a ctd, without it - the ctd point passed.

i have compared the corp to rom and, and one corp on and does have a sixth tag..so that is indeed isnt the case.

i would love to get the python fix you refer - maybe i can implement it and perhaps it will help...

thank ou again for the help,
i realy hope someone will help me with this, cause most logical crashes i get and stuff, but this one....beats me.
thanks.

keldath said:

Dancing Hoskuld,
first thank you for dressing my problem!
much appreciated.

this is one hell of a loop, i dunno how you guys figured it out.

anyway - i have iron mine building - world wonder - maximum of 5 world wide.
the city with the newly founded mining inc, did not have an iron mine within the same city,
other civs did, but they dont have any access to the mining inc just yet.

hoping your explanation could help - i removed any bonus supplying building build in my game - went over every city...
and still got that ctd, only upon removeing the newly founded corp, helps.
i tried to remove it and then made my city have it - still got a ctd, without it - the ctd point passed.

i have compared the corp to rom and, and one corp on and does have a sixth tag..so that is indeed isnt the case.

i would love to get the python fix you refer - maybe i can implement it and perhaps it will help...

thank ou again for the help,
i realy hope someone will help me with this, cause most logical crashes i get and stuff, but this one....beats me.
thanks.

Click to expand...

It is a very small and simple bit of code. Attached is a BUG version. In the init function I set up an array of the buildings and the bonuses that they provide. In the onBuildingBuilt function I assign the bonus to the city.

that was fast! thanks.

ok ive set the prividing bonuses, wrote a line in init.xml, put the py in the python folder,
loaded the save game,
still crashed im afraid .
do i need to remove the free bonus tag from the xml?

do you have any other idea?
when i come to think about it i had those providers a long time, and i never before had a crash because of a corporation.

could this be some rare bug in the sdkk that i caught?
i cant think of another reason - ive tried a lot of trial and error:
i removed all the cities except the one with the new corp.
i removed all the building in that city except the hq.
i removed all the bonus providers before the fix you gave me.

only upon removing the hq, i can continue - ran some auto play a few times to be sure.

kel.

keldath said:

do i need to remove the free bonus tag from the xml?

Click to expand...

Oops, forgot to mention that you need to remove the free bonus from the xml.

@DH
Thanks for the JC files!

Now if I could only get Afforess and Strategy to use them both mods would be greatly improved imho.

Now I just need someone to explain to me why All the AI use Monarchy and fixed borders? And as soon as I changed from Monarchy to Republic my borders instantly shrank even though I had better culture. As an example, on some tiles it would list my empire (before the civic change) as 66% and the bordering AI as 33%. But when I changed the %'s flip flopped. I went to 33% and the AI went to 66% on My tile! So far only 1 other AI has now switched to Republic (and I think they did that because of all our trade agreements).

Again DH thanks for listening to me gripe about JCs.
JosEPh

JosEPh_II said:

@DH
Thanks for the JC files!

Now if I could only get Afforess and Strategy to use them both mods would be greatly improved imho.

Again DH thanks for listening to me gripe about JCs.
JosEPh

Click to expand...

you are welcome. I had forgotten the tech and route changes in the one I put n C2C v12. I am sure it will be back in C2C v14

After I discovered that I didn't actually start error logging (somehow I failed to save the init file the first time), this time I now have a fairly good go at the game with logging, though no crash yet. Still, the main odd thing I noticed, and its a pretty huge thing, is that Civ 4 is trying to connect to a network while playing this mod. I also noticed that my antivirus blocks a network connection shortly (within ten minutes) of each and every crash. I also noticed that on the python loading log I somehow got the Buffy mod plugged into this, whether with your mod or accidentally another way (I downloaded it about the same time as this mod and honestly, I play 100% single player and will never do multiplayer, ever). So the whole network connection thing boggles my mind, except that it makes sense that if my AV sees this as a threat, considering how I have it set up, it will kick me off of Civ 4 (honestly I'm not the least bit frustrated with it, that is how I have my computer security setup and I'd prefer to be kicked off of a computer game than to be open to attack). Anyway... at this point, does anyone know how to remove this Buffy mod? Without going into a search for it, I'm guessing its going to be some sort of pervasive/invasive thing that'll be a pain to remove. Maybe not, and if not I'll have it removed first thing tomorrow morning. But anyway, if it will, let me know, please.

I should point this out with the Buffy mod... I only recall downloading it. I don't know if or why on Earth I would have installed it, other than the fact that I didn't immediately know what it was for, I sort of had a pretty bad misconception of it.

Now I just need someone to explain to me why All the AI use Monarchy and fixed borders? And as soon as I changed from Monarchy to Republic my borders instantly shrank even though I had better culture. As an example, on some tiles it would list my empire (before the civic change) as 66% and the bordering AI as 33%. But when I changed the %'s flip flopped. I went to 33% and the AI went to 66% on My tile! So far only 1 other AI has now switched to Republic (and I think they did that because of all our trade agreements).

Click to expand...

reported that too...

Oops, forgot to mention that you need to remove the free bonus from the xml.

Click to expand...

well, i didnt help, still ctd, but i wonder if the changes will apply to my save game...



****************
thats it,
i give up.
i tired anything humanly possible with the world builder, i removed tons of variations of things,
i only pass the ctd when removing 2 corporations.
i made sure there no building producing bonus.

cant this be an sdk issue? - of a new dawn origin?