[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest

AnotherPacifist said:

However, more Indian land could mean lower stability...

Building 1 or 2 more debtor's prisons might help our stability by decreasing war weariness (although next turn we can eliminate the Bahmanis).

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Yeah, I suggest that we retain ourselves from capturing or founding anymore cities until later. Debtors Prisons should be builded all around in phases.

AnotherPacifist said:

We should have naval ordnance ready in time for the Portuguese. (never built a frigate in this mod)

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I agree, it would be cool to have frigates against Portuguese Carracks.

I'm travelling this weekend, so feel free to skip me.

Playing now.

A couple factoids for future reference from my just-finished Abbasid conquest game:
1. Certain cities will respawn no matter how many times you raze them, the only solution is to station troops on top of the ruins. (Tabriz and Vijayanagra being some of these pesky cities).
2. All rebel cities need to be eliminated to win. (Including Kashgar all the way to the east). Barb cities, however, don't need to be eliminated.

Turn 0: 1390
We basically have enough units to no longer need to mass produce them in cities that do not have settled Great Generals. Once various queued units are built, I decide to switch production away from military in cities without Great Generals. Trade Asymmetric Warfare to KoC for 70g + WM and also get them to change religion and 2x civics.

Tarsos starts a Religious Prosecutor. Damaskos starts an Inn. Hamadan prioritises Bank over Hospital. Alexandria prioritises Courthouse over Aqueduct. Kaiseria works another Farm. Put one turn of espionage into Timurids so that we can see their cities on the map. Pillage some additional tiles for 24g. Rearrange the defenders between varopis cities from Damaskos to Sana'a. Send a Light Cavalry from Tungul towards the ruins of Aksum to do some more pillaging. Move our Great Spy towards Samarkand to explore within Timurid cultural borders. Destroy a Rebel Archer outside Tungul.

We have +26 Stability, 77 Piety, 1912g -157gpt @ 80% science. Companies is 3 turns away.

Turn 1: 1392
Trapezounta starts producing Wealth. Perre starts an Orthodox Cathedral, to further squeeze Ak Koyunlu once they spawn. Makkah finishes Blacksmith, starts Guild Hall. Hierosolyma finishes Library, starts Jewish Quarter. Bamiyan finishes Library, starts Orthodox Church. Steal 16g from Armenia with our Assassin. Unload settler and escort and missionary on Suqqutra. They will wait for around for a while yet before founding a city though. Spread Orthodoxy in Dwarka. Raze Ahsenabad (no losses) and Bahmani are destroyed. Pillage various improvemenst for total of 193g.

We have 21 Stability, 80 Piety, 1996g -231gpt @ 80% science.

Turn 2: 1394
Religious Persecutor in Tarsos, starts Wealth. Orthodox Monastery in Madinah, starts University. Refugees arrive in Khambhat and our cultural borders expand in Khambat. Orthodox Missonary built in Quetta, another started. Thatta finishes Work Boat, starts Courthouse. Sunni Islam purged from Tarsos. Kill a barb Horseman near Sana'a. 3x Turkoman Heavy Horse Archers spawn near Hamadan. Barb axeman approaches Bamiyan. One of our Caravans completes a trade mission in Frankish Dharamsala. Pillage for a total of 81g.

Turn 3: 1396
Companies is learnt, Moveable Type next (9 turns). Damaskos finishes Inn, starts Brothel. Barb Camel destroyed near Tungul. Pirate sunk near Attaleia. Our units begin to bombard the defences of the Rebel city of Tungul. Another Caravan trade mission arrives in Dharamsala. Pillage for a total of 122g. Smyrna starts a Religious Prosecutor. Trade Citrus to KoC for 1gpt.

Turn 4: 1398
Kaisareia switches to Wealth. Hierosolyma finishes Jewish Quarter, starts Orthodox Cathedral, to put more squeeze on Acre. Lots of Barbs spawn: 3x Turkoman Heavy Horse Archers spawn near Acre, 1x Maceman near Hierosolyma, 1x Axeman near Damaskos, 4x Turkoman HHA near Dharamsala and 4x Turkoman HHA near Mosul. Our Light Cavalry en-route to Aksum captures a Rebel Caravan. Pillage for a total of 104g. Trade Alchemy to Armenia for 150g + WM (they were researching it and would have learnt it in 6 more turns).

Turn 5: 1400
Our Granary in Ankyra is destroyed by enemy infiltrators. 2x Light Cavalry are destroyed by Turkoman HHAs in Hindustan. Smyrna finishes Religious Prosecutor and reverts back to Wealth. Perre finishes Orthodox Cathedral and starts Hippodrome. Quetta finishes our last required Orthodox Missionary for our existing network of cities and starts an Orthodox Church. Dhramasala (Frankish) is captured by Turkoman barbs. Then we raze Dharamsala. Ankyra priorises a Granary, is it will grow soon and we don't want to lose the food. Sunni Islam is purged from Smyrna. Tarsos starts a Religious Prosecutor. Pillage for a total of 68g. Kill a Bedouin Horseman near Sana'a. 2x Turkoman HHA spawn near Sevasteia and are summarily dispatched.

We have +19 Stability, 90 Piety, 1986g - 293gpt @ 80% science.

Turn 6: 1402
Remaining Turkoman HHAs are killed in Hindustan. Kufa finishes University, starts Sunni Madrassah. Esfahan finishes University, starts Walls. 3x Turkoman HHAs spawn near Sevasteia, guess how long they stick around for. Raze Vijayanagra. Spread Orthodoxy in Kolhapur. Pillage for a total of 61g.

We have +23 Stability, 90 Piety, 1821g - 404gpt @ 90% science.

Turn 7: 1404
Ak Koyunlu spawns. Tarsos finishes Religious Prosecutor, back to Wealth. Perre finishes Hippodrome, starts Monument. Esfahan finishes Walls, starts Castle. Al-Qahira finishes University, starts Jewish Quarter. Bandar-e Abbas finishes Guild Hall, starts Courthouse. Bamiyan finishes Orthodox Church, starts Foundry. Khambhat finishes Courthouse, starts Granary. Refugees arrive in Kolhapur. Ankyra finishes Granary, back to infinite Light Cavalry production. Jews settle in Adrianopolis. 2x Turkoman HHAs spawn near Maragheh (about to flip to Ak Koyunlu, but currently Armenian). Switch espionage to Ak Koyunlu, we should steal their gold before they squander it. Purge Judaism from Tarsos. Start a Religious Persecutor in Adrianopolis. Tungul defences reduced, start pounding the defenders for XPs. Pillage lots of tiles for a total of 141g.

We have +25 Stability, 92 Piety, 1596g - 197gpt @ 80% science.

Turn 8: 1406
Damaskos finishes an Assassin, starts another. University finished in Samarra, start Market. University finished in Wasit, start Sunni Madrassah. Courthouse finished in Ajaymaru, start Orthodox Church. Monument finished in Perre, start Wealth. Courthouse finished in Dhara Nagari, start Guild Hall. Turkoman HHA x2 spawn and dispatched near Hamadan. Pillage lots of tiles for a total of 158g.

We have +21 Stability, 92 Piety, 1557g -566gpt @ 100% science.

Turn 9: 1408
Castle finished in Esfahan, start Bank. Jewish Quarter finished in Al-Qahira, start Castle. Orthodoxy spread in Dhara Nagari. Pillage for 65g. More bombarding for XPs at Tungul.

We have +22 Stability, 94 Piety, 996g - 47gpt @ 80% science.

Turn 10: 1410
Steal 52g from Ak Koyunlu, but Assassin (new one) is caught. Assassin finished @ Damaskos, start another. Kufa finishes Sunni Madrassah, starts Shia Madrassah. Hamadan finishes Hospital, starts Wealth. Sana'a finishes Foundry, starts Orthodox Church. Masquat finishes Guild Hall, starts Blacksmith. Quetta finishes Orthodox Church, starts Foundry. Plunder 2g. Destroy last Turkoman HHA near Esfahan.

To do:

• Rebuild the Iron Mine near Esfahan.
• Position a unit on the key Rebel city spawn locations to prevent respawns.
• Do not build any more military units unless in a city with Great Generals settled
• Build espionage units in Damaskos as required. Steal gold from Ak Koyunlu to increase espionage XP..
• Try to collapse KoC using espionage if possible. Then we might flip Cyprus and Rodos with the culture bonus as we remove defenders.
• No new cities, captured or built for some time.
• Do not steal Patronage yet, we have many more expensive techs to learn before we obsolete the Spiral Minaret.

How many heathens are left to purge in Anatolia?

Hey guys, I keep lurking, and it's a great read I think I should clarify one thing though - Portugal cannot be killed, but if they have no cities they count as eliminated/dead as far as the Conquest Victory conditions go (and since last patch will show up as such on the Victory Screen).

There is no Islam right now in Anatolia. (The Sufis in Smyrna must be studying mystical Biblical writings).

Armenia is the master of Ak Koyunlu. We should declare war on Ak Koyunlu (not Armenia, to avoid loss of piety) in just a few turns AFTER we steal Patronage. Mosul seems a good city to keep.

I'm a little worried that our stability is just being stable. Any time now, the Mamluks or Ottomans can spawn, or the pesky Indians can (they have NO time limit for respawns, unlike the Mamluks). I think that building some wonders from Patronage and City Planning will help our stability, so I wouldn't hold off stealing Patronage much longer. We just have to bite the bullet after Moveable Type is learned.

Please plan economic buildings in a staggered fashion (we need an expanding economy at all times).

I think we should keep conquering Timurid cities, and give/liberate them back after we make peace, and do it again and again to buff our stability.

Also, we need to NOT be the city with the most gold in 1500, i.e. there needs to be a civ that's alive (probably let KoC have that honor) AND we need to have less gold than they do. Stop hoarding gold and run some deficits around that time.

embryodead said:

Hey guys, I keep lurking, and it's a great read I think I should clarify one thing though - Portugal cannot be killed, but if they have no cities they count as eliminated/dead as far as the Conquest Victory conditions go (and since last patch will show up as such on the Victory Screen).

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In that case, since there ARE no rebel cities for them to conquer in southern India and we own the only formerly Omani cities, and they are not at auto-war with us, we don't even need to kill them. Suqutra is ours to build, i.e. it can't spawn automatically, right? There's Bahrain to worry about--somebody please park a unit there stat!

I played couple turns earlier, but I'll finish the set now.

I'll go for Naval Cannon after Movable Type. We can still postpone the City Planning, if our stability rises, if not, then I'll switch. I'll also declare war on Timurids.

Science Rules said:

How many heathens are left to purge in Anatolia?

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Just Jews in Adrianopolis at the end of my turn set.

That's so sad--we build them a Jewish Quarter and have to expel them afterwards...do their Quarters get destroyed? Remember the trouble the Genoans and Venetians caused when we expelled them?

Can't you make an exception for them? Please?

There is currently no Jewish Quarter in Adrianopolis (Jews just recently settled there). Anatolia and Thrace shall be Orthodox, no heathens allowed.
Yes, Jewish Quarters are destroyed when they are expelled.

blizzrd said:

There is currently no Jewish Quarter in Adrianopolis (Jews just recently settled there). Anatolia and Thrace shall be Orthodox, no heathens allowed.
Yes, Jewish Quarters are destroyed when they are expelled.

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I would have personally waited till the very last moment to expel them, i.e. build the Jewish Quarter now and wait til 1453. Same thing for the Muslims in Smyrna and Dorylaion. I so want to be Schindler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Byzantine_Empire

Although the Justinian Code remained in force in the Eastern Empire until the ninth century,[8] the period following Justinian's reign was generally characterized by toleration of non-Christians, particularly the Jews. One exception to this was Heraclius, who reigned from 610 to 641, and was the first emperor to force the conversion of Jews to Christianity.[18] Following his death, and until 1204, the Jews suffered only three notable legal persecutions, the sum of whose span was roughly fifty years.[19] It is even debated whether the first of these--the anti-Jewish measures passed during the reign of Leo III the Isaurian--could be considered a persecution.[20] The second of these, during the reign of Basil I from 867 to 886, briefly punctuated the tolerance of the ninth century.[18] The last of these persecutions took place under John Tzimiskes, who reigned from 969 to 976. Accordingly, there were no recorded legal persecutions of the Jews for nearly two and a half centuries following his reign.[20]

In the twelfth century, there were about 2,500 Jews in Constantinople, 2,000 Jews in Thebes and 500 Jews in Thessalonica. Halmyrus, Rhaedestus, Chios, and Rhodes each housed 400 Jews.[21] Also, there were about 300 Jews each in Corinth and Samos, and 200 Jews in Gallipoli.[22]

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Only one Religious prosecutor at a time so we can't wait until the last minute to expel all the heathens. Even in our most productive cities it takes 2 turns to build a Religious Prosecutor.

OK, so after 1453 we'll need to adopt persecution if you go by the rule--nothing but orthodoxy in Asia Minor.

I don't see why we would have to adopt Persecution, when Religious Prosecutors can do the job just fine, as has been the case up until now?

What if the inquisitors took their time in doing their job?

Turn 0 Micromanagement, Debtor's Prisons, Inns and Brothels started.

Turn 1 We research Movable Type, next Naval Cannons (13 turns). Judaism is purged from Adrianopolis. Stability +16.

Turn 2 Rajput Heavy Infantry kills one of our workers, but our Heavy Cavalry retaliates. I am replacing some water- and lumbermills with cottages and farms to increase our economy and thus stability; we don't need production anymore. Stability +17.

Turn 3 We declare war on Timurids. D'Ps, Brothels and Inns build all around. Stability +14.

Turn 4 Couple Timurid Horse Units are killed while defending and later a Timurid stack is destroyed. Couple Kara Koyunlu Turkoman Raiders spawn, but they are killed instantly. More D'Ps, Brothels and Inns completed. Stability +18.


Turn 5 We lose one Heavy Cavalry while defending, but mop up the rest of Timur's armies, 5xHLs + 2xHHAs. Each Timurid city has one defender left. Various barbs are also killed. Espionage buildings completed. Stability rises to +34.

Turn 6 Timurids are ready to make peace, so I take Kniveh, sign cease fire and liberate it back to them. That actions takes our stability from +37 to +40. GG is born and I attach it to the Siphonarios, now we just need some barbs (or White-Sheep Turkomans) to get burned.


Turn 7 Pirate War Galley is sunk. Some espionage buildings are finished. Stability +31.

Turn 8 D'Ps finished. Stability +30.

Turn 9 Stability +30. Here is an example of micromanagement:


Turn 10 Stability +28:



Notes

-We don't need any units anymore
-When do we take the Armenians/AKK down?
-We can finish the Timurids in one turn, if we feel like it. Should we do it now, or wait for the KoB to spawn?

I'm going to be quite repetitive here...

0. Destroy a barb near Damascus. Declare war on Timurids (those workers were too tasty). Capture Khiveh and Bukhara. Loot improvements and massacre infidels...
1. ...Barb camel appear near Kufa. I recall a light cavalry from Hamadan. Upgraded some heavy lancers in Timurid cities (might as well take advantage of the temporary ownership of those cities).
2. Plague in Khamkhat! (it wasn't even unhealthy for G--'s sake) Workers fleeing cities in droves. Castle sabotaged in Samsounta. Cease fire with Timurids, liberate Khiveh and Bukhara back to them.
3. Naval cannon done. I choose the Naval Ordnance path (which requires Compass), so Compass next. Other civs get plague as well.
4. Kill 3 barb turks north of Hamadan. Steal some gold.
5. Kill 3 barb turks northwest of Hamadan, some random barbs near Bamiyan and Jerusalem. Steal some gold.
6. Steal some gold. Declare war again on Timurids. Capture Khiveh and Bukhara. Loot improvements. Plague gone.
7. Uneventful.
8. Cease fire with Timurids, liberate Khiveh and Bukhara back to them.
9. Recall some of the heavy lancers from Tungul to escort the idle workers so we can rebuild the road to Tungul.
10. Kill a barb horseman in Upper Egypt.

To do:
1. Rinse and repeat with the Timurids. I specifically didn't eliminate their horse so they can build horse archers which have no defensive capability. Our starting expansion stability was -161, and with the above measures it's down to -153.
2. Constantinople is going to spawn a great person in 2 turns. I have assigned a priest (and there's a decent chance for that to happen) so we can get another golden age.
3. Whenever we own 2 more Timurid cities and are at war, our stability goes from 35 to 15. Just be careful.
4. The trade with the other Christians is very lucrative, so I would probably let them be unless they decide to be unruly.
5. Workers going towards Tungul to rebuild road there. And we might as well let them stay there since we want to rebuild it quickly once we capture it.
6. Keep checking Armenia in case they try to build those wonders.
7. It seems that rebel Turbat (west of Thatta) has respawned. Somebody go raze it and park a unit on it.
8. It's 1452, so our rule about nothing except Orthodoxy in Anatolia afterwards applies.

Since it's getting repetitive, I can play another 10 turns if people want, and just have each do 20 turns next.