BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
If they manage Sushi, yes. And they have enough religions o build the needed Cathedrals.
Creative Constructions is weaker than Sushi, especially in this map, but it's possible.
Turn Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
Creative Constructions is weaker than Sushi, especially in this map, but it's possible.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
No news.
We can save our EPs (and time) to destroy forts, ama brought 9 workers in the center, so they can rebuild them at wish. Obviuosly well protected.
Ama moved a bunch of galleons through the forts, in the canal S of bode. I suppose they're a bait, they can't be fully loaded. I think that all the Ama's Army, aside the units in the cities, is concentrated in the center.
Quat: their respectable fleet should be hidden in the fog W of their island or W of our newly conquered point city. In any case, i can see that all the units they have in their island when i invaded are still there. In this case also i doubt the transports are fully loaded, or even loaded.
Yesterday was lost due to a partial reload, so the game is shifted 1 day later.
Tomorrow night or saturday morning i plan to take the last former Mav's city on Comet. Unfortunately i misclicked a rifle, so he's now out of the already small stack in the center. It can hold, or at least can cause a lot of passive damage.
If no surprises, 1-2 turns after took the city i think to attack the center. We need to take some risk. Ama's army is impressive, but ours have superior units. Let's see how it can work.
I got a settler to refound Arcturus next turn.
Next turn the Globe will be completed in Rigel, so it can be back in business.
We can save our EPs (and time) to destroy forts, ama brought 9 workers in the center, so they can rebuild them at wish. Obviuosly well protected.
Ama moved a bunch of galleons through the forts, in the canal S of bode. I suppose they're a bait, they can't be fully loaded. I think that all the Ama's Army, aside the units in the cities, is concentrated in the center.
Quat: their respectable fleet should be hidden in the fog W of their island or W of our newly conquered point city. In any case, i can see that all the units they have in their island when i invaded are still there. In this case also i doubt the transports are fully loaded, or even loaded.
Yesterday was lost due to a partial reload, so the game is shifted 1 day later.
Tomorrow night or saturday morning i plan to take the last former Mav's city on Comet. Unfortunately i misclicked a rifle, so he's now out of the already small stack in the center. It can hold, or at least can cause a lot of passive damage.
If no surprises, 1-2 turns after took the city i think to attack the center. We need to take some risk. Ama's army is impressive, but ours have superior units. Let's see how it can work.
I got a settler to refound Arcturus next turn.
Next turn the Globe will be completed in Rigel, so it can be back in business.
AlphaShard
Emperor
New turn is up. Sommersword logged in for some reason after 2metra played there turn.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Done.
I took Spot B, now named Orion at the cost of 1 Cav. Then an artillery reduced to dust the only defender Ama left (they surely killed the others, no ships around) and a cav completed the job.
Then i've sent a few units to reinforce the stack on the center and amassed our army in Orion (but relax, i've kept a good number of units in our cities). Next turn i plan to try to take the center. Like in chess, who controls the center, controls the game.
Resettled Arcturus, i left Amsterdam as name, started a granary.
Dike completed in Alcor, now it's a good city!
Completed the Globe in Rigel, now we can do anything we like there.
In any case, drafting is too costly in terms of happiness, thus i will change that civic ASAP, thus in 2 turns i will revert to Bureau. In addition drafting an infantry costs 2 pop and in the mid term we loose production.
So i plan to keep representation to counter the effects of drafting, then go back to US in the last turn of GAge.
I'm almost sure that CDZ is selling obsolete units to Ama. Last turn i've seen 2 xbows and a cat in Ama territory, now they are in the center city and they are Ama.
I moved the airship in the west cape city, to try to see where Quat's fleet is.
I took Spot B, now named Orion at the cost of 1 Cav. Then an artillery reduced to dust the only defender Ama left (they surely killed the others, no ships around) and a cav completed the job.
Then i've sent a few units to reinforce the stack on the center and amassed our army in Orion (but relax, i've kept a good number of units in our cities). Next turn i plan to try to take the center. Like in chess, who controls the center, controls the game.
Resettled Arcturus, i left Amsterdam as name, started a granary.
Dike completed in Alcor, now it's a good city!
Completed the Globe in Rigel, now we can do anything we like there.
In any case, drafting is too costly in terms of happiness, thus i will change that civic ASAP, thus in 2 turns i will revert to Bureau. In addition drafting an infantry costs 2 pop and in the mid term we loose production.
So i plan to keep representation to counter the effects of drafting, then go back to US in the last turn of GAge.
I'm almost sure that CDZ is selling obsolete units to Ama. Last turn i've seen 2 xbows and a cat in Ama territory, now they are in the center city and they are Ama.
I moved the airship in the west cape city, to try to see where Quat's fleet is.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
No news in our half.
Next turn i will go out of nationhood and use slavery for 5 turns. If needed i will raise the culture.
I took a look right now and Qaut landed 16 rifles and 12 cannons near the Pyra city.
I could have bet the transports were almost empty. Now i see why the research of our "allies" was so pitiful.
They should have some kind of coordination with Ama, when they log they have 8 galleons (but protected by destroyers). I could have bet those were empty too, or almost, see the army they have in the center. Now i doubt.
Luck i managed to ferry a full transport in the island in my half. Our transport fleet is useless in the wrong side of the spoke. That's why i moved to the center: i can react without problems in the spokes, my problem are the islands.
In any case, i think to counter attack: no reason to wait to be destroyed. Before to decide i will see what Ama will do, obviously.
Next turn i will go out of nationhood and use slavery for 5 turns. If needed i will raise the culture.
I took a look right now and Qaut landed 16 rifles and 12 cannons near the Pyra city.
I could have bet the transports were almost empty. Now i see why the research of our "allies" was so pitiful.
They should have some kind of coordination with Ama, when they log they have 8 galleons (but protected by destroyers). I could have bet those were empty too, or almost, see the army they have in the center. Now i doubt.
Luck i managed to ferry a full transport in the island in my half. Our transport fleet is useless in the wrong side of the spoke. That's why i moved to the center: i can react without problems in the spokes, my problem are the islands.
In any case, i think to counter attack: no reason to wait to be destroyed. Before to decide i will see what Ama will do, obviously.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Logged after 2m. Ama landed 23 mixed units near the former Indian Capital.
I have to choose and i choose to keep that one.
So, draft then civics change, whip like hell in that island. I target the Ama stack, i have enough siege to reduce it to dust. And a lot better than catapults.
Then i was caught by an inspiration: if i build 2 forts N of Mizar (2-3 turn, no less, unfortunately at thecost of a newly built cottage) i can safely move the transports from a fort (which acts like a city) to the island.
My tactic in the center worked. Ama moved all the troops in Nabaxica (the center city).
Next turn i can manage to destroy 2 forts and the roads. I will see how to move the troops, but i think i retreat.
There's a stack of 5 destroyers E of Andromeda (no more Anjennida, please).
I think we need to regain control of the seas, so i will whip a bunch of destroyers in all the cities. Definitely that nationhood draft won't work if you really need to quickly build an army.
After the 2 forts are built i can retake the Pyra city, then we can start thinking to a counter attack. If we're still alive.
In any case, with armies of that kind, i doubt our former allies would have watched us building our SpaceShip. Now i know for sure i was right asking to break the ETT before the prerequisites for Rifling. With that move we could have took the world.
Now our advantage is small, 14 a rifle vs 20 an infantry. It's +30% and they got numbers, which we never have had.
But 14 of a rifle vs 8 of mace and 6 of a LB? that was +80% and even +120%. No match.
With rifles, trebs and cavs we could have conquered the World. I'd like to know what the people wanting to stay in that absurd ETT was thinking.
Amazon: Char+Imp
Quatronia: Char+Fin
CDZ: Agg+Fin
Not exactly the traits for a peaceful game, no?
And our experienced diplomats, who signed a treaty which can be cancelled at any time after a certain date without any warning?
1 turn, 1 measly turn was all we needed. And when we decided to renew it? not even then.
Oh well, the milk is spilt now. Let's try to recover. But won't be easy.
I have to choose and i choose to keep that one.
So, draft then civics change, whip like hell in that island. I target the Ama stack, i have enough siege to reduce it to dust. And a lot better than catapults.
Then i was caught by an inspiration: if i build 2 forts N of Mizar (2-3 turn, no less, unfortunately at thecost of a newly built cottage) i can safely move the transports from a fort (which acts like a city) to the island.
My tactic in the center worked. Ama moved all the troops in Nabaxica (the center city).
Next turn i can manage to destroy 2 forts and the roads. I will see how to move the troops, but i think i retreat.
There's a stack of 5 destroyers E of Andromeda (no more Anjennida, please).
I think we need to regain control of the seas, so i will whip a bunch of destroyers in all the cities. Definitely that nationhood draft won't work if you really need to quickly build an army.
After the 2 forts are built i can retake the Pyra city, then we can start thinking to a counter attack. If we're still alive.
In any case, with armies of that kind, i doubt our former allies would have watched us building our SpaceShip. Now i know for sure i was right asking to break the ETT before the prerequisites for Rifling. With that move we could have took the world.
Now our advantage is small, 14 a rifle vs 20 an infantry. It's +30% and they got numbers, which we never have had.
But 14 of a rifle vs 8 of mace and 6 of a LB? that was +80% and even +120%. No match.
With rifles, trebs and cavs we could have conquered the World. I'd like to know what the people wanting to stay in that absurd ETT was thinking.
Amazon: Char+Imp
Quatronia: Char+Fin
CDZ: Agg+Fin
Not exactly the traits for a peaceful game, no?
And our experienced diplomats, who signed a treaty which can be cancelled at any time after a certain date without any warning?
1 turn, 1 measly turn was all we needed. And when we decided to renew it? not even then.
Oh well, the milk is spilt now. Let's try to recover. But won't be easy.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Well clearly the treaties weren't as clear as I thought they were. I agree I find it hard to believe they would sit there and let us build a Space Ship. You know at the very least they would be sabotaging our builds and building there own. That's not even talking about the nukes which I am sure are going to show up.
I think this would have been a very different game had we had Tech Trading off and all this blackmail wouldn't be possible. You weren't the only one Bulb that knew we were being milked for techs. I think Amazon beat us on the Diplo front so we just have to beat them some how on the war front.
What I want to know is why CDZ has not declared war on us.
I think this would have been a very different game had we had Tech Trading off and all this blackmail wouldn't be possible. You weren't the only one Bulb that knew we were being milked for techs. I think Amazon beat us on the Diplo front so we just have to beat them some how on the war front.
What I want to know is why CDZ has not declared war on us.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thank you, but actually you, HUSch (unfortunately disappeared) and even Alltriia agreed that something was wrong with the ETT. I got just little experiance in Multi, but i know that the great majority finishes in a bloodbath.
And i'd like to know what they are doing to try to win. For what we can see (but they can be hiding it), they have a pitiful army, not much land and Creative Constr.
Culture? I doubt. Probably Socralynnek is just trying to survive 'til the end.
And not only they don't declared war, but they kept our trades (OB and resources). But they don't want to communicate.
Well i played the first session of our half, planning to finish in 3-4 hours.
I almost wiped the Ama stack near the former Indian Capital. Not enough units to finish the job. Bad luck at good odds with 2 Inf died to 2 cannons and a rifle died to a damaged rifle. Our cavalry did a good job in killing a rifle and 2 damaged cannons with a single attack.
In the center i captured 3 workers with a cav. I have to decide what to do. Attacking Nabaxica seems difficult and let us exposed in Comet.
We have also the option to attack Quat in their spoke, but i'm afraid i can't avoid Ama attacking the attackers
.I need to think more. Some suggestion would be appreciated, but this demo game looks like a solo game.
I revolted to slavery, but this cost us +2
for emancipation, so i will revolt again to it in 5 turns. Chosen Bureau too, but i need to see the real benefits now that research is not so important.I'm building the forts, pity that idea arrived too late. I'm thinking to suicide some transport on destroyers. Usually you need 2 destroyers to take one so, if a transport can do enough damage, it's a big save of hammers.
I upgraded almost all our units. Only a few rifles and a frigate. No upgrade for warriors and archers.
Ama have a lot of money, so i think they are not researching. All our former allies have Bio. CDZ is goin for Flight and Quat for Communism.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Well we have lost alot of players but we have more then Quat do and it even happened to Mavericks as well.
There's no point in lamenting the past, just take what we have now and deal with it.
Well one suggestion is to prepare for the air attacks. I know I can use them to crushing effect in single player games.
I think we need to focus on one team at a time. So I would rather take out more Amazon cities. Although taking Quat out or at least there home island would seriously cripple there teching.
I just don't know Bulb.
There's no point in lamenting the past, just take what we have now and deal with it.
Well one suggestion is to prepare for the air attacks. I know I can use them to crushing effect in single player games.
I think we need to focus on one team at a time. So I would rather take out more Amazon cities. Although taking Quat out or at least there home island would seriously cripple there teching.
I just don't know Bulb.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
At least we're in 2
What i said, but to the benefit of lurkers... and for a personal need to share my thoughts.
The one researching flight is CDZ, but Fighters are not so effective for range and power and they are far from having it.
For bombers they need Radio, thus Elec first. Not a short way. But there's always the chance they can be intercepted.
Blub, please
.I think it's what i'm goin' to do.
The options are:
a) move to Nabaxica and try to raze it. I doubt we can hold there and have enough units to counter attack elsewhere.
b) keep a sizeable force in the center, maybe using one of their forts. Forts let pass only the tile owner with ships, but give the bonus to anyone sitting there. Then move roughly an half of the stack back to Comet, ready to counter attack anywhere we need.
I need to evaluate, but it's not sure that the safest choice is actually the safest or better one.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Sorry I meant that I was trying to give suggestions and I just don't have much. I do think we will want to destroy center city.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
np, Alpha.
A decision is not easy, in any case, alea iacta est (Julius Caesar, passing the Rubycon).
I moved towards Nabaxica destroying a fort in the process. Let's see how Ama react and delay any decision to next turn.
BTW i keep udated this thread not only for you, but because i need to expose my thoughts, so maybe some creative one will arrive. Like the one of the forts.
Stupid, stupid me to not have thought it right after razed the Ama city there.
And i was the one asking to build the forts in the center. And to plant a city there. Even more stupid.
A decision is not easy, in any case, alea iacta est (Julius Caesar, passing the Rubycon).
I moved towards Nabaxica destroying a fort in the process. Let's see how Ama react and delay any decision to next turn.
BTW i keep udated this thread not only for you, but because i need to expose my thoughts, so maybe some creative one will arrive. Like the one of the forts.
Stupid, stupid me to not have thought it right after razed the Ama city there.
And i was the one asking to build the forts in the center. And to plant a city there. Even more stupid.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Yeah it's good to keep this updated.
If we can get to bombers before they do, which is why they may be going for the Fighters, we can really put it to them.
If we can get to bombers before they do, which is why they may be going for the Fighters, we can really put it to them.
Infantry has +25% against gunpowder, making it 25 vs 14 (give or take the effect of other bonuses). Not substantially different from 14 vs 8. In any case though, we stuck with the ETTT so as to avoid being in the situation we're now in. If you can pull through a win from here then credit to you, but the plan was to avoid getting dogpiled not delay it. Had I not left the diplomatic front for RL reasons, I'm quite confident we wouldn't be in the diplomatic mess we're now in.
Of course Amazon weren't going to let us go peacefully to space, but if we hadn't treated them like garbage and ignored ourselves the treaty we wanted them to follow they'd have stuck around until it was just the two of us.
I don't know who you're referring to as "experienced", certainly not me.
The treaty ended at 1500AD. This rubbish about it still "existing" but being able to be cancelled at any time with no notice was Amazon's invention, to all intents and purposes though it ended at 1500AD. At that point it should either have been extended or considered to no longer apply. You were all involved in the dicussion about that at the time we signed it.
I clearly should have appreciated the fact that nobody except me understood the diplomatic situation and so when I became inactive that knowledge was lost to the team completely. It was all there in text in the forums, but I honestly do conceed the point that if you're busy actually playing the turns you don't have time to wade through all the legal mumbo-jumbo that Amazon spammed out.
Maybe on some level I wasn't that upset that diplomacy went to s@#$ as soon as I left, so, well, sorry about that.
In any case though, forget my whining and negativity, and keep up the good work you're doing in game. It's extremely good that someone at least is keeping the team running, and you're doing a good job from what I can tell. As you tell I'm still following at least, even if all I have time to do is complain rather than help.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I quote below a part of your post which deserves a direct answer.
The reason to keep the ETT to avoid to be dogpiled was your battlehorse on this matter.
My reason to leave the ETT right after researched RP (and not trading it) and to 3 turns from rifles was the same: avoid to be dogpiled. No one could have dare to declare on us if we have rifles and cavs and they don't. Thus we could have took what we wanted, break the NAP with Ama (or better, let them break it since we ceased to give techs for free). But, numbers or not our clearly superior military advantage could have gave us the victory.
If at least you could have given some suggestions on what to do diplomatically after 1500 AD it would have been enough. We asked for help.
Speaking of me, i was sure the NAP needed 1 turn to be cancelled, not like it was.
In any case there were no in game constraints, so the Admins can't do nothing on the matter. Other stupid thing.
The reason to keep the ETT to avoid to be dogpiled was your battlehorse on this matter.
My reason to leave the ETT right after researched RP (and not trading it) and to 3 turns from rifles was the same: avoid to be dogpiled. No one could have dare to declare on us if we have rifles and cavs and they don't. Thus we could have took what we wanted, break the NAP with Ama (or better, let them break it since we ceased to give techs for free). But, numbers or not our clearly superior military advantage could have gave us the victory.
Well, maybe. But any unit can be upgrade to rifle, so LB and XB were pretty useless in the field. And for LB there's Cavalry, immune to first strikes. And they can't counter attack with archery units. Musketmen? ridiculous.
If at least you could have given some suggestions on what to do diplomatically after 1500 AD it would have been enough. We asked for help.
Speaking of me, i was sure the NAP needed 1 turn to be cancelled, not like it was.
In any case there were no in game constraints, so the Admins can't do nothing on the matter. Other stupid thing.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Well again it will do little good to cry over the past, I will suggest getting to the Bombers ASAP, even if they are getting Fighters soon, they will have those annoying Blimps though. I think with Bombers we can get victory, especially if CDZ just keeps to the side lines.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
The blimps are just a little annoyance.
What is really annoying is that Ama stolen Artillery from us. I think we're toasted.
There's a stack of 13 Arties near Nabaxica. I think a strategic retreat is in order.
As foreseen Quat took the Pyra city and kept there 3 rifles.
Moved the rest of the stack to Acrux. But i got a transport loaded in Comet, and not so badly damaged units in Acrux. I think i'll attack immediately.
Tomorrow.
What is really annoying is that Ama stolen Artillery from us. I think we're toasted.
There's a stack of 13 Arties near Nabaxica. I think a strategic retreat is in order.
As foreseen Quat took the Pyra city and kept there 3 rifles.
Moved the rest of the stack to Acrux. But i got a transport loaded in Comet, and not so badly damaged units in Acrux. I think i'll attack immediately.
Tomorrow.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Not much to say this turn.
I'm proceeding with construction of the forts in Comet.
Another guy (not cav scout) from Quat logged and moved a bunch of ships to block the port access, so i was forced to land the reinforcements on the tile NE of the city.
I attacked the attackers, with good success, considering that many of our troops are injured. Lost only an arty. I'm afraid they will load the survivors in their ships, but i can't do nothing different.
If they don't (like Ama did), they can say goodbye to all their pitiful stack. And to our nice Pyra city, which i plan to retake in 1-2 turns.
The 5 destroyers from Ama's core moved to the west of Andromeda and are blocking our North cape city. No transports, but i need a lot of ships to attack them.
In the center i retreated and i plan to destroy all the forts and roads there before thinking to attack, if ever.
I'm proceeding with construction of the forts in Comet.
Another guy (not cav scout) from Quat logged and moved a bunch of ships to block the port access, so i was forced to land the reinforcements on the tile NE of the city.
I attacked the attackers, with good success, considering that many of our troops are injured. Lost only an arty. I'm afraid they will load the survivors in their ships, but i can't do nothing different.
If they don't (like Ama did), they can say goodbye to all their pitiful stack. And to our nice Pyra city, which i plan to retake in 1-2 turns.
The 5 destroyers from Ama's core moved to the west of Andromeda and are blocking our North cape city. No transports, but i need a lot of ships to attack them.
In the center i retreated and i plan to destroy all the forts and roads there before thinking to attack, if ever.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I logged to look at the situation after Ama and Quat half.
Ama managed to steal AL too. At this point i'd like to know what is the advantage in keep an high research if anyone with enough EPs can steal anything. In any case Ama strted spend EPs on us long before they broke the NAP, otherwise it won't be possible to steal 2 expensive techs.
We caught a spy last turn, but they probably have an army of spies and a lot of EP buildings. And we built not even a CH in any city.
Ama completely wiped out stack in the Center.
2MG, 13 Inf, 3 Cavs, 8 arties = 26 units gone. to 11 of theirs. They have many almost dead units, but totally unreachable, so they can heal.
As foreseen, also Quat evacuated their stack. Now there's a stack of destroyers, transports and galleons both Ama and Quat right outside the former Indian Capital. Obviously with all their injured units.
1 destroyer and a galleon of Ama are stacked outside the Pyra city and a destroyer is escorting 2 transports of Quat 2 tiles away. I presume the galleon and the transports are empty, but next turn i'll try to wipe at least the Ama stack.
I don't know what to do. We don't have enough production to rebuild an army at the speed we need and now that our technical advantage is gone to spies, even if Ama need a lot of gold to upgrade i think we're toasted.
This, and first of all the fact that i'm substantially alone let me think to give up.
This game was ruined by that protracted ETT. If we kept it and let the others milk us for techs, we would have faced Nukes and tanks or the distruction of our SS parts with spies. Or a mix of both. So, i don't regret to gave to Ama the "casus belli".
As i foreseen months ago, a so protracted ETT has demonstrated to have been our ruin.
We spent too much gold in upgrades and hurries and we not even built many basics buildings and not enough units. Researching MS was a total waste.
I can't recover a game others have compromised. I just precipitated a situation. At least we saved months of useless play.
Now, i'll play until i'm really tired, just to try to wipe some units here and there and maybe take a city or two. Then i will pass it to the AI. At least an AI does not sign absurd treaties.
Ama managed to steal AL too. At this point i'd like to know what is the advantage in keep an high research if anyone with enough EPs can steal anything. In any case Ama strted spend EPs on us long before they broke the NAP, otherwise it won't be possible to steal 2 expensive techs.
We caught a spy last turn, but they probably have an army of spies and a lot of EP buildings. And we built not even a CH in any city.
Ama completely wiped out stack in the Center.
2MG, 13 Inf, 3 Cavs, 8 arties = 26 units gone. to 11 of theirs. They have many almost dead units, but totally unreachable, so they can heal.
As foreseen, also Quat evacuated their stack. Now there's a stack of destroyers, transports and galleons both Ama and Quat right outside the former Indian Capital. Obviously with all their injured units.
1 destroyer and a galleon of Ama are stacked outside the Pyra city and a destroyer is escorting 2 transports of Quat 2 tiles away. I presume the galleon and the transports are empty, but next turn i'll try to wipe at least the Ama stack.
I don't know what to do. We don't have enough production to rebuild an army at the speed we need and now that our technical advantage is gone to spies, even if Ama need a lot of gold to upgrade i think we're toasted.
This, and first of all the fact that i'm substantially alone let me think to give up.
This game was ruined by that protracted ETT. If we kept it and let the others milk us for techs, we would have faced Nukes and tanks or the distruction of our SS parts with spies. Or a mix of both. So, i don't regret to gave to Ama the "casus belli".
As i foreseen months ago, a so protracted ETT has demonstrated to have been our ruin.
Spoiler :
I can't recover a game others have compromised. I just precipitated a situation. At least we saved months of useless play.
Now, i'll play until i'm really tired, just to try to wipe some units here and there and maybe take a city or two. Then i will pass it to the AI. At least an AI does not sign absurd treaties.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Yeah just give it to AI I don't want to watch us get conquered either.
