Nobles' Club LXVII: Hammurabi of Babylon

2nd go today, got to 880ad. Only got 11 city but it should be enough. Got steel by building mostly wealth so im gonna spam cannon now. Made a few trebs to upgrade. Not enough non siege army either tho. My cap is best cannon maker as it has ironworks(g eng). I made oxford in cap too, stupid move it barely does 100 beakers a turn. Got good hammers from lots of workshop, traded gunpowder to capac to get guilds. He will be tough to kill.

Sent my warrior NW and found out just how resource laden this map really is. Moved my starting Settler 1E and found sheep and an extra ivory in the fat cross.


Went Worker -> Settler and quickly found Akkad on the peninsula NW of Babylon.

While I was doing that I ran into Tokugawa. Looking at the map as I've seen it so far I'll have to battle him sooner or later.


Figured I'd better get as much land as I can since it looks like we might be sharing an island. Could be more land to Toku's south, but since he won't open borders I won't know until I take him out or others sail to me. So I got 2 settlers out around 1300BC and settled to deny him access to the north.

Here's my cities as of 1000BC


Techwise I went
Hunting
Mining
Masonry
Fishing (should have got later as I still have no workboats)
Mysticism
Archery (noticed my military was 0.5 Toku's and while Warriors count the same, the Bowmen's special ability made me feel safer)
Bronze Working
Pottery
Writing
Alphabet (8 turns left but tech rate will drop next turn)

Looking good so far but I definitely need to build some more military, explore that land west of Nippur and expand in the Northeast. Will also need a few more workers so I can do more chopping, work the resources of the new cities, and connect my cities.

Nippur's one off coast! You should usually avoid this if you can since you are now unable to build ships, harbors, or lighthouses anymore. In addition, the grassland hill is also wasted

Also, you probably want a city south of your capital and take the corn and cow there, while stopping people from expanding north.

Nippur's not bad. Cities to the north and west can work the coast and the seafood. The site is actually pretty good, especially considering the placement of Akkad. Agreed that settling on the hill is a waste but it does provide defence.

The real crime in this game is Dur Whatever-its-name-is. It should be two north at the magnificent three-gold three-food site. This should have been the first city out of the box. Not only is the site awesome, you want to settle towards the AI instead of your back country. As it is the site is thrown away completely. Another city down the peninsula can claim the copper. It's not like you really need it anyway as there is copper in the capital's BFC.

Apparently, Huayna Cupac got in through Tokugawa in 850BC. He brought Hinduism with him and I was happy to accept it. I also traded Alphabet to get Iron Working.


I was able to found two more cities a little bit later and think I did a better job this time.



I started to wonder how Cupac got to my territory without going through Toku's borders to find out he didn't. How sure how they were friendly at +1 but wish I knew. All I do know is war with Toku will hurt my relations with Cupac.


Founded a 7th city in Opis to use the gold, cows, and corn. Personally this might be my best city despite the sharing 5 tiles.



Eventually I decided I had to attack Tokugawa or I'd have no chance later in the game so in 225 AD I declared on him.



I made a mistake my underestimating Tokugawa's strength in the city of Tokyo as I lost half my attacking force. Was still able to win the city in 325 AD, but I realized I'd need catapults to do this. After a regathering of my strength I was able to capture Setsuna in 520 AD. In 700 AD, I got the crown jewel as Kyoto fell into my hands.



After that it was a matter of capture, rest, capture, rest, and so on to take the following cities and destroy Japan.
820 AD Osaka
880 AD Kagoshima
1080 AD Nagoya
1130 AD Izumo
1190 AD Cimmerian

While that was going on I did found another city which was named Mari in 840 AD. Not the greatest location I suppose but I wanted that whale for happiness. Just to find out Akkad has one, as you can see in the edge of the picture



Here is my civilization so far.


I teched in order, Meditation, Sailing, Currency, CoL, Mathematics, Construction, Civil Service (for Bureaucracy), Calendar, Horseback Riding, Monarchy, Philosophy (Bulbed with Scientist), Feudalism (for vassalage which I never needed), Machinery, Engineering, Guilds, Banking, Aesthetics, and Drama (end of the turn)

My fear right now is that I economy isn't doing so well. Granted a 40% tech rate is still earning 133 beakers per turn thanks to an academy in my capital with Bureaucracy. Still I'm trying to get Courthouses, Banks, and other money buildings to make it better. Also, the war made me forget to look at tech trades except for ones the AI offered. I gave Alphabet for Iron Working, Meditation for Priesthood, and Horseback Riding and Priesthood for Monotheism.

Got to say as long as I can keep Cupac friendly and avoid him becoming the 2nd biggest civilization, I might be able to get a Diplomatic Victory. Obviously if the chance to win Domination is just too great then I'll go that route but we'll see.

So: Prince, no huts, epic speed; my first time playing any of these settings (I normally play Noble with huts on normal speed). I SIP because I couldn't think of anything better to do. Build order Worker-Warrior, then another warrior because my city was still at size one when I finished the first warrior. Tech-wise I went Mining-Bronze Working to see if I had any copper, in hopes of maybe rushing someone (which I feel I ought to do more often when viable). I do have some, but it's *just* out of the fat cross (*grumble grumble*). Since I was working on a settler at that point, I went for mysticism for the obelisks/possible stonehenge since I have stone in my capital.

When my worker came out, I first had him improve the corn south of the capital, then the two golds for production and commerce (research). Right now he's improving the quarry, should be ready next turn.

As for the other civs, the only one I imagine might be a problem soon is Toku, since he's close and I worry he'll block off my expansion. Huanya and Zara are kinda far, so I don't see them

So now it's 3000BC, I have to decide:

1. Where to settle my next city
2.What to research next
3. What my plans are for the following turns.

All of which are dependant on one another... the positions I'm considering are as numbered on the screens:





(for some reason the ressources icon are turned off in the second screen, but although it's hard to see, there's fish in the spot NE of spot 3)

1-2: I'm guessing 2 would be better in the long run, seeing as how it access to extra crab in the Fat Cross (for one extra healt later on?) and is on a plains hill for extra production/defence, but unless I get fishing immediately I'd be left without a food ressource untill the borders expand, so 1 might be preferable...? Both have access to marble, which might make an oracle worth it (going straight to polytheism-priesthood after mysticism?)

3-4: part of me feels like I should prioritize this area, as it's closer to Tokugawa and he might expand that way, which would leave me with less room to expand if I give him the time to do so. Should switch to slavery and rush out the settler (saving two turns, though enduring one turn of anarchy) to make sure I get a good southern spot?
4 looks like it could be a good cottage spot, with all of its grasslands (or maybe a GP city? I'm not much experienced with those), but it doesn't have any important ressources. 3 would be nice for copper, but it doesn't have a nice river spot like 1 2 and 4, so giving access to my cap would take some time. Either way, I also worry that expanding this way might make me a potential target for an early attack by Toku...

Anyhow, I feel like rushing Toku right now isn't ideal, considering he's relatively far from my capital and I don't have any copper (unless I settle on spot 3 and focus on getting axes?), but I could try and get construction early (perhaps with oracle?) and attack him with Catapults and elephants... (A question concerning this: Should I tech hunting (and archery, while I'm at it) or instead favor going towards alphabet and trading them with the AI) Either way, it feels like there's going to be a war between us, as I fear my expansion will be blocked off by him if I leave him be.

Okay, I'm far from an expert. Personally, I chose to settle 1NE (1N is good too, corn now but less hills later) of 4 first, not because it was the best available spot, but to claim it before Toka. I'm not sure 4 is good cause you'd lose at least the cow and your second city is not going to culturally compete favorably against the Japanese capital. After that, my advice would be to do some better scouting before debating the merits of locations 1, 2, 3, and possibly elsewhere. Especially here, where any missed square, even coast, could have Christmas hiding behind the fog, I feel it would be better for your warrior to be exploring nearby rather than all the way over yonder. The best site after 4 I thought should include the three gold to the east.

Rushing Toka wouldn't be bad, but I felt like there was land enough to expand into and not immediately necessary (unless he beats you to 4...). Plus the copper was quite annoyingly placed, and Toka of all leaders is easily outteched. War could wait till later. Stonehenge is nice, but monuments are easily built or whipped in cities as good as these. With all the food and stone here, I thought the pyramids were an "I win" button, and deserve thought for your top priority. Course, you could probably swing both wonders. I'd tech hunting if only for the happy bonus from your settled elephant. Archery can wait unless you feel threatened... Else writing is super nice, since all cities can easily feed scientists here.

My unexpert two commerce

Its a toss up between land grab and rush toku. I grabbed land then wished I had rushed him. If u do grab land then site number 3 is excellent, even better 1 to the east.(put a city in between) Site 4 seems a little greedy maybe pull it back 1(if u can get it.) Just deny him the gold....If u do plan on expansion without war u need to block to the left as well as where ur planning. U will have a tech lead so just choose ur era(if not now) for attack.

Wow! I'd never have thought of gifting an early settler to Toku for open borders. Even if I thought of it, I'd probably have considered it too big a sacrifice for getting OB with our favourite isolationist.

Went mining > myst > masonry and hooked up Stone before finishing Stonehenge, then BW > pottery and now working up the meditation > priesthood chain for the oracle. Have 2 workers and chop/whipped a settler whom I need to decide where to send. Here are my current thoughts:

I figure it's important to settle towards the enemy (Toku). I think that means light blue on the east coast, followed by black in the centre if it's still available; otherwise orange on the west coast. I notice in Archon_Wing's game Osaka ruled out Black pretty quickly. Black might need to go 1NW or 1NE (the latter picking up the cows) to avoid culture pressure from Toku's capital, but maybe I should just plan an axe rush instead. That would mean light blue immedately for the copper, followed by pumping out axes as soon as possible in both cities.

I haven't yet explored just east of Kyoto, so my opinion on sites might change when I see it (though lack of rivers might cause me to stick with Black even so). I gather from Zechnophobe's 900 BC post that his equivalent of "light blue" was 2n of mine to get 2 more gold (as did LeftAdjoint). huerfanista seems to have put Akkad on my light blue, which is reassuring. I guess the tradeoff is long-term (gold) vs short-term (copper/axe rush). If I go for gold I don't think I could hook up copper soon enough for an axe rush, so that might mean going for elephants like Gwynnja.

After that there are a lot of good sites. I am wondering if I should discard my usual desire to avoid overlap, and pack in cities like yellow and green to the northwest of Babylon?

that lightgreen should be on marble, you will get fish and crabs in BFC

you can take out Toku with 3 warriors if you SIP and run some of those hills to pump out some quick warriors

Re settling on marble: I feel stupid that I missed that. I seem to have a "thing" about NOT settling on resources so I can get the benefits of improving them later, but on this map that's a silly attitude.

With regard to warrior rushing Toku: I suspect at 2475 BC it may be too late now, even at Noble; he'd surely have an archer or two and be in a position to whip more if I declared. I suppose it was still possible in 3625 when I "discovered" him (as mapmaker I knew where he was, of course, but I often try to avoid using that knowledge).

I got far enough to be starting to build units for a catapult/elephant assault on Japan, only to realize it was going to be very tedious; he'd had a chance to build quite a few cities to my southwest, I had only 4 cities, and I'm not especially fond of warfare. I backed up to just after meeting Toku and warrior rushed Kyoto. Now I'm REXing and need to decide where to send my 4th settler.It seems to me that having eliminated Japan it's possible to block Huayna in the west, but I'm not sure of the best plan. Here's a dotmap of the southwest:

Kyoto (near the centre) will expand to the 3rd ring in 3 turns (it has the 'mids); Nippur (east coast) will expand to the 2nd ring in 10. So unless Huayna or Zara sends a settler north very soon, they're blocked in the east. In the West red will block in however many turns it takes to get there, plus 15 for Stonehenge to do its work. Since it's close to Incan lands, Huayna might well get there before me and, even if I do beat him, he has a while to push a settler north. Yellow has the advantage of being on a river, but it will take a long time to expand far enough to block a settler from squeezing through. So I'm inclined to try for red and hope things work out.

On the other hand, I could back up yet again and sent the marble-city settler south, in which case the Nippur settler could easily have reached Red in time. I'm close to Code of Laws, so next thing to do after this blocking city is build courthouses everywhere and focus on economy for a while.

Opinions? (about city positioning; I know restarting so often is probably not the best idea).

as for actual city placement... you can't go much wrong in this map since almost every site you place your city in is extremely valuable due to the number of resources around.

You maybe didn't catched 1 important thing about Kyoto which made me to think about playing the map with warrior rush.
This important thing is Horses (which is the only resource your starting peninsula doesn't have) which led to me going for early HA rush to take out whole continent in the BC era.

Which if you check my save at some earlier page (185 BC or smtg) will realize I succeed at.
You can have around 35 very good cities on the whole landmass with ton resources and made for interesting game eventually.