SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

Sun Tzu Wu said:

The server still says our save is turn 10 (3600 BC).

mabraham, could you upload the save now, so team members can look at it?

Are we still at turn 13 (3480 BC)?

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Yes turn 13. I could upload, but I haven't because I didn't feel the need to make it easy for other teams to deduce that we lost our warrior from our power graph. Since we've done nothing but press enter three times, the only new information has come on the Demographics screen:

I haven't seen opinions other than option B and 3 warriors.

If we build a warrior by turn 20 then Toto's loss would be somewhat hidden. I'm in favor of mabraham finishing his turn set with option B.

edit: I agree with Kaitzilla that there are a lot of unknowns, so speculation beyond this turn set is just that speculation. I apologize to Tachy that I focused on the question of building the SH. That was all I thought I could contribute to the conversation without testing myself, and I'm trying to keep us thinking about the long term victory condition and the bigger picture.

OK I'll play out option B now.

OK nothing happened. Save is here at start T20. So both worker and warrior have movement remaining.

Images


Upload log

Ooooh...man! My turn set comes at very bad moment...I can't today (too late) and tomorrow I work all day. Is it possible to delay to Sunday (Monday I guess for you mabraham and frogdude).

Tachywaxon said:

Ooooh...man! My turn set comes at very bad moment...I can't today (too late) and tomorrow I work all day. Is it possible to delay to Sunday (Monday I guess for you mabraham and frogdude).

Click to expand...

No rush... we have decisions about warrior direction to make

mabraham said:

No rush... we have decisions about warrior direction to make

Click to expand...

Thanks. BTW, by all day, I meant 11-14 hours of work, so it was clearly impossible to me to do anything.

We already have a rough idea of what to discuss, so a delay is fine Tachy. Assuming you will be able to put out a PPP 36 to 48 hours from now.

I was intending on reposting this when someone's turn ended but Sun Tzu Wu beat me to it last time.

Sun Tzu Wu... waiting
mabraham... waiting
Tachywaxon... up now
Walter_Wolf... on deck
Kaitzilla... in the hole
frogdude... waiting
bcool... waiting
shulec... waiting

Tachywaxon said:

Thanks. BTW, by all day, I meant 11-14 hours of work, so it was clearly impossible to me to do anything.

Click to expand...

We must have something for Tachywaxon when he gets back!

Therefore, I demand that we rename Washington.


Imagine it, the wicked witch of the east has enslaved your race. You toil day and night under the fear of her evil rule. Then one day, a streak appears in the sky.

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO, IT's .... a house?
BOOOOM the wicked witch is dead!!!
The house landed right on top of her!

You and all your mates gather up, to congratulate whomever's house that was, and decide to rename your city in their honor! What should it be?


OMG_House
H8 Witches
REMEMBER_THE_TOTO
ALMOST_KANSAS
Dorothyville

Any ideas?

Witch one should we choose?

Other possibilities

House of Doom
Long Live Dorothy
Witch One

I transferred frogdude's suggested scouting plan for the propsed 3 warriors to this screenshot



The only change I would suggest is Warrior B goes NW-SW-SW-W-SW instead of NW-SW-SW-W-W

Simple suggestion for our new Warrior:

Rename Warrior Yama (山 pronounced やま = Japanese for Mountain). He will live long and mightily while Toto died as young wimpy canine.

Let 山 travel along the river to find an AI Leader settled along its banks. When 山 reaches the end of the river, he can explore to its west. A seond Warrior can explore to Washington's immediate west; I'm guessing there is no land bridge there. A third Warrior can explore east of the river later and return to Washington. 山 will follow frogdude's yellow path, since he will be exploring the river from nearby hills.

Wild Conjecture about our Map:

I'm expecting that we will be following a long spiral land bridge as opposed to an actual yellow brick road to the wizard who is located at the center of the map. On the other hand, our map might be an auto-generated Fractal Map that been doctored up by World Builder.

Sun Tzu Wu

Looking at the screenshot and thinking about things a bit more, there are a lot of possible ocean tiles that could have seafood. This could change where we decide to put our cities. Do we want to devote a warrior just to explore the ocean tiles we haven't explored?

At the very least we should add it to the priority list frogdude made reproduced below...

1. Scope out peninsula to west
2. Follow landbridge west if it exists
3. Scout out Stone Crab site
4. Follow north west coast / General northerly scouting
5. Fogbust Gems city site
6. Northern fogbusting

Click to expand...

7. Explore remaining ocean tiles to SE, S, SW to uncover any hidden seafood that might affect our settling decisions.

edit based on Sun Tzu Wu input: 8. explore along the river to find an AI so we can presumably establish early trade routes with an AI as soon as possible (assuming sailing and writing will be researched soon)

Frogdude's warrior scouting plan with BCool's tiny change sounds great to me. Being a tiny bit more coastal while scouting reduces barb encounters.


Mabraham mentioned it before, but it does bear repeating that this seems to be a watery map from the Demo screen. We had 19 land tiles in our BFC, best rival had 18, worst had 14, and the rest averaged 15.5.



Also, something really interesting happened between turns 13 and 20. Two religous capitals had their borders pop a 2nd time before T20, and we are still 2nd in land tiles! The average moved from 15625 to 16875, which indicates 10 land tiles were added by the two border pops. Since our biggest rival had 18 tiles and now has 27 tiles, that indicates to me that the 2nd religious city popped their borders a 2nd time and only got 1 land tile to show for it (Or a 17 tile civ went to 27 while the other added 0 land tiles).

*The 14 land-tile civ still has 14 land tiles because I don't think that number can go down.
*One religion was Turn 5 and the other was Turn 6. Culture goes from +2 to +7 at that point.
*Land area: 15000=15 tiles.

I've wracked my brain to figure how this might be possible, and all I come up is that the 2nd religious civ must be on an island of some sort. Turn 20 is too soon for a cultural civ to pop borders a 2nd time (80/100 culture) unless they built a monument first.

Kaitzilla said:

Also, something really interesting happened between turns 13 and 20. Two religous capitals had their borders pop a 2nd time before T20, and we are still 2nd in land tiles! The average moved from 15625 to 16875, which indicates 10 land tiles were added by the two border pops. Since our biggest rival had 18 tiles and now has 27 tiles, that indicates to me that the 2nd religious city popped their borders a 2nd time and only got 1 land tile to show for it. The 14 land tile civ still has 14 land tiles because I don't think that number can go down.

I've wracked my brain to figure how this might be possible, and all I come up is that the 2nd religious civ must be on an island of some sort. Turn 20 is too soon for a cultural civ to pop borders a 2nd time (80/100 culture) unless they built a monument first.

Click to expand...

Could some kind of close AI packing do it? Should I dig out more details from autosaves?

Here is the test game ver1.1 from Tachy updated to T20

bcool said:

Here is the test game ver1.1 from Tachy updated to T20

Click to expand...

We should try to create test maps that match the information from the real game as much as possible. For example, Buddhism and Hinduism being founded as close as reasonably possible to turn 5 and turn 6 respectively. More importantly, the assessment of land owned by the two Religion founders should match the real game as closely as reasonably possible. I'm not saying that one of them needs to be on an island as Kaitzilla's (excellent) cultural border research shows, but we need to pick a map type where such a situation could easily occur. We need to look for additional demographic clues to what map type the real game is using, so we can use the same map type in creating a map for our test games. Ideally, we need to think like the scenario builder based on clues we get from the real game.

The easiest way to get things to match is to use world builder to either terraform the AI cities and/or move them to match the demographics we see in the real game. That will mess up the internal state of the test game, but its more important that the demographics match as we learn more about them.

The more closely our test games match the real game, it will be more useful at both the micro-level and macro-level. Speaking of the macro-level, we still need to develop a grand strategy for winning; we still don't have enough information to do this, but we can start proposing some grand strategies on what we know so far.

Sun Tzu Wu

I understand that my test game was not ideal in the ways you describe STW (but it is at least useful for short term testing).

By posting a test game I am in no way limiting others from posting a more accurate test game...

bcool said:

The only change I would suggest is Warrior B goes NW-SW-SW-W-SW instead of NW-SW-SW-W-W

Click to expand...

Sounds sensible to me. Might as well see more water squares. It also comes with a side benefit that he is a little less likely to be mugged this way. We know there's a lion out there!