City Placement Strategy Sugestions - About Maps, Climate and Speed

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

As we all know, one of the most unfortunate things about Civ IV is the randomness of the map generator.

Every now and again, we face the problem of getting completely unforgivable starting locations rendering the game completely unwinnable right from the start.

While we are nicely given the option to regenerate an unforgiving start, it can sometimes also be a great challenge to try and play out a horrid start location, no matter how bad the game will end up being, and trying to make the best possible use of the horrible map we were given.

I present you with the horrendous start I got that had my brain twitching to click on regenerate map, but I thought I would challenge myself to play it out anyway:

Spoiler :

I will try to win this horrible map, even though we all know is it umpossible.

GGracchus · Sep 17, 2011

I count -19 food, plus 11 from everything improved for food, you'll need 8 windmills to be food neutral or wait until bio. Could you post a save? What difficulty is this?

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

Its Gilgamesh on Emperor - standard fractal map with locked modified assets, no barbs, huts or random events.

Spoiler :

lymond · Sep 17, 2011

That start looks fine. You basically have your HE city from the get go.

Your first two cites are horrible by the way. The best city is 3 tiles West of your cap. That blue circle up north with dear/clams/horse is not bad later either.

The land to the SW is fine and your comments on flood plains and jungles is illogical.

Looks like a very easy game to me depending on how isolated you are.

Kid R · Sep 17, 2011

I think you should settle only tundra cities and do an attacko style ice-bowman rush :goodjob:

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

lymond said:
That start looks fine. You basically have your HE city from the get go.

Your first two cites are horrible by the way. The best city is 3 tiles West of your cap. That blue circle up north with dear/clams/horse is not bad later either.

The land to the SW is fine and your comments on flood plains and jungles is illogical.

Looks like a very easy game to me depending on how isolated you are.

I was infected with Attacko.

This is my real city plan:

Spoiler :

lymond · Sep 17, 2011

aaah....i see now

Kjotleik · Sep 17, 2011

And neither should you, really.

I'm not used to playing Emperor, so feel free to throw away this if it doesn't sound sound.

I would've thought placing cities 2 and 3 at locations S4W2 and S6W6 from you capital, and making them both commercial cities should get you enough income to settle the rest of your little continent. I know they won't have food resources, but a lot of flood-plains and riverside grasslands combined with Cottages should do the trick. I wouldn't whip these cities, though. That job is reserved for the production-capital and cities 4, 5...and so on.

Concerning the capital: Two food-resources plus Marble. Add a lot of hills for early production and wave goodbye to Pacal II. "Bye, bye Pacal, bye, bye...it's not your fault that you died..."

Also I would've founded three or four coastal cities in order to build a navy. You may need to invade the other continent(s) in order to win this game. Especially if one of your opponents is busy vassalizing the rest of the civilizations.

I did have a somewhat similar experience in one of my games recently. That was using my own "in-development mod" with a 1 year/turn gamespeed. Me (Mansa Musa) and Suryavarman II were all alone on a small continent. I took him out early, but didn't meet anyone else before Optics. Once I met them, Theodoric of the Goths had vassalized almost half of the other civilizations. Only David of Israel were close to big enough to stand in his way. So, I settled all of my own continent and sent a force of about 25 units over to: 1)Pillage his lands, 2)Sack his flatland cities and 3)Conquer and keep his hills-cities (once I got enough units over to defend them, that is). At that time I had Astronomy, but no-one else did. My strength-ratio with Theodoric was low...at only 50% of his. I had about 10 cities, while he had been busy at war, and owned about 35+ cities.

At present Theodoric and I are equal in strength. And equal in number of cities.

Yours Sincerely

Kjotleik of Norway

GGracchus · Sep 17, 2011

I don't believe in a no-win scenario unless Lock Modified Assets are on.

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

Lock Modified Assets are on.

Reloading is allowed, I need it

My 500 BC progress after a few tries:

Spoiler :

TBH I should have just ignored Pacal and Rexed ... he is the bottom Civ in the game, which says a lot abut my score! Ooops. Normally I rex a lot and get really powerful, but I got distracted with wanting to do something with Vultures

strijder20 · Sep 17, 2011

You should grow your capital one more before you start building vultures. By working the corn you will grow one more, after which you can start swapping the food tiles to the plain tiles and back to cause an artificial stagnation. It's micromanaging, of course, but it'll give you some extra hammers.

Kid R · Sep 17, 2011

Yeah I was just thinking maybe you should leave Pacal - he's a good techer to buddy up with.

It's probably a coin toss which way's best though. Maybe you can vassal him quickly and give him his cities back, and without barbs in the game it could be a handy opportunity to get a level 3 unit before you take on the other Civs. Are those Mayan longbowmen visible at the bottom of the pic though :eek:

Maybe you should have rushed after all!

GGracchus · Sep 17, 2011

Kid R said:
Yeah I was just thinking maybe you should leave Pacal - he's a good techer to buddy up with.

It's probably a coin toss which way's best though. Maybe you can vassal him quickly and give him his cities back, and without barbs in the game it could be a handy opportunity to get a level 3 unit before you take on the other Civs. Are those Mayan longbowmen visible at the bottom of the pic though Maybe you should have rushed after all!

I doubt he has feudalism this early, and Pacal only has archers.

@OP: I think you can settle the land you blocked off and tech for cav/cuirassiers so pacal can clear the jungle for you(and improve it) before you take it.

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

This time I tried a builder approach and wanted to be buddies with Pacal (he does tech really fast, even with only a few cities!) ... but his state religion didnt spread to any of my cities :x

I managed to get GLH built after a few attempts, I had to skip both AH + BW early on and tech Mining > Masonry > Fishing > Sailing > Pottery > Writing to keep my economy alive. One thing that this did though was completely remove any need for roads for trade routes, and I managed to keep all my cities supported with just 3 workers. I also got carried away and build the Mids too since I had Stone.

Spoiler :

bhavv · Sep 17, 2011

I've played up to 1000 AD now, I'll upload a save if anyone would like to critique my progress:

Whole island rexed:

Spoiler :

Also check this awesome city out:

Spoiler :

bhavv · Sep 18, 2011

Ok this time I managed a lot better and played through to 1860 AD and had the top score. I rexed a lot more efficiently, put Ziggurats up a lot quicker, and had 10 cities by 100 BC, and 16 cities and my island covered by 600 AD. My tech rate was comfortable at 40% throughout most of this as well (Ziggurats are very nice to get you off to a powerful early rex along with half price libraries).

Observations, comments and my own criticisms:

Spoiler :

1) Pacal was obviously far far FAR better to buddy up with and leave alone. He is peaceful, never backstabs, and techs phenomenally well. He also founds lots of religions and spreads them to me. Though I blocked him off on my island, he had lots of smaller islands to settle to the south, and he grew to become the second most powerful AI (second only to Shaka who had also Vassalized Izzy), and he was the second top techer in the game. I also shouldhnt have denied him open borders in the early game, he only wanted them to send in his missionaries, not to settle any cities on the rest of the island, plus I needed the foreign trade bonuses.

2) Pericles was also an opponent on Shakas Island (housing all 5 of the remaining civs all cramped up together with Shaka + Izzy o.O). While he was one of the lowest scoring Civs, he was a tech maniac (Taoism founded in 150 BC, and he was the first to Liberalism every time I played the map, I stood no chance of keeping up).

3) While Pacal was very friendly, and also later giving me a defensive pact (he built up a strong Navy with tiny Island empire, so I never had to bother with military myself), he also teched far too quickly for me to keep up with on Emperor.

Pericles + Pacal in the same game = forget about wonders and liberalism unless you want to kill them off, which isnt ever worth doing so as they as are both very peaceful. Pacal had a load of Religion, Culture + Wonder whoring going on, and Pericles blitzed through the tech tree.

4) After teching Writing, Sailing and Priesthood to get off to a hugely powerful Gilgamesh game with GLH, Libraries, Ziggurats, and a 10 city rex within the BCs, I stagnated after this due to a lack of focus and no fixed strategy.

- First I needed to tech Currency for the extra trade routes, wealth and markets. After this I tried for the Glib and got it in a couple of games, but lost in my curret one. In doing so I realized how much of a waste of time it was teching for Literature while trying to rex.

- Also due to being so far behind to Pacal in tech meant that trading was never an option. I completely overlooked Gilgamesh's second biggest advantage to having cheap libraries and early courthouses - ESPIONAGE!!!

- You get those Ziggurats up and running far faster than anyone else has a chance with Courthouses. You are also Protective, which while a very weak trait, does mean half price castles (I actually did use this meager *advantage* to tech Engineering after Currency and Literature. Doing so got me my Forge, Windmill, and Colosseum techs along the way too, all very handy for Gilgamesh on a hilly start)

- After Currency, I should have gone straight to engineering for all of the above point, and then to Compass for harbors in my coastal cities. I should have used GLH along with ASAP Ziggurats, Castles and Harbors to the best advatage - run a spy specialist in every city and go gold + tech steal everything I can!).

GLH, Libraries, Ziggurats, Castles, Harbors + Espionage economy would have given me the best possible use of my Civ.

My favorite cities

Spoiler :

Regas · Sep 19, 2011

The start is very good, insane production city

It's strange that you can't win Lib race though. Maybe this is the problem with tech trading, you only got Pacal nearby until you get Optics ?
I find that REXing too much early game kills my tech progress a lot, and I think sometimes it is better to pass some city sites to AI. Of course if it is possible to block some land then it must be done

7-8 cities by 1AD is the max I want. At least this is my opinion atm

and it changes a lot as I learn..

bhavv · Sep 19, 2011

My tech progress was killed by Rexing yes, but then I end up with loads of super cities in the end game and the tech pace picks up.

I suppose I cant do what Hannibal can with Gilgamesh

I was trying to rex like I would on an Archipelago map with Hannibal.

GGracchus · Sep 19, 2011

For the third city, why is it working so many unimproved tiles? And this at 1860? You should have the land covered with cottages or something. With emancipation they will grow fairly fast.

Skallagrimson · Sep 19, 2011

bhavv said:
As we all know, one of the most unfortunate things about Civ IV is the randomness of the map generator.

Every now and again, we face the problem of getting completely unforgivable starting locations rendering the game completely unwinnable right from the start.

While we are nicely given the option to regenerate an unforgiving start, it can sometimes also be a great challenge to try and play out a horrid start location, no matter how bad the game will end up being, and trying to make the best possible use of the horrible map we were given.

I present you with the horrendous start I got that had my brain twitching to click on regenerate map, but I thought I would challenge myself to play it out anyway:

Spoiler :

What could be worse than starting out entirely surrounded by almost nothing but hills? Sure there are a couple of food resources, but all those rubbish hills make this start unwinnable:

Spoiler :

Exploring around my starting area revealed a very cramped, and a mostly hills, tundra and desert landscape. I couldnt believe that I was forcing myself to play on this horrible map, I wanted a better one that I could actually win

Spoiler :

Exploring further south revealed nothing other than flood plains and jungles. As we all know, flood plains and jungles are both very unhealthy, and settling cities near them is a surefire way to cripple your empire and lose the game:

Spoiler :

But all was not lost! By carefully analyzing the area that I had explored so far, I managed to spot two, and the only two good city locations for my second and third cities:

As we all know, CIVillians enjoy having their cities built on the beach so they can go for a swim, and furs make the best resource to settle near as they make nice posh clothes.

I will try to win this horrible map, even though we all know is it umpossible.

Settling Uruk 1W would have given it an extra corn, wich would have turned that big brown tile frown upside down, making it a production powerhouse. Settle decent commerce cities to block off land, fully setup for war or failgold, no worries IMO.

City Placement Strategy Sugestions - About Maps, Climate and Speed

Glorious World Dictator

Tribune of Rome

Glorious World Dictator

Attachments

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Emperor

Glorious World Dictator

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Kjotleik

Tribune of Rome

Glorious World Dictator

Wallowing in irony

Emperor

Tribune of Rome

Glorious World Dictator

Glorious World Dictator

Attachments

Glorious World Dictator

Attachments

Chieftain

Glorious World Dictator

Tribune of Rome

Deity

Similar threads