ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Testing is not much needed, you can simply play, and ask others where to put cities. Position is simple...for now
That isn't how we play SGOTM games.
SGOTM 14 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
That isn't how we play SGOTM games.
Yamps
Deity
I traded an extra crab to Ragnar for clams on turn 85. Then, on turn 88 I decided to double down to get good relations and open borders, and gifted fish to Asoka. Whoops.I don't know how resource trading works with teams, but I'm guessing I should have done both deals with either Ragnar or Asoka, and not split them up. Anyone know if that matters?
This deals should be canceled, other AI will ask that anyway because they hate them. It would take 50 turns for +1 from a single resource, that's not enough for Pleased. We'd have to make the right pick and give Toku a lot to open borders. IMO, we shouldn't bother with them at all because 2 other teams have them as worst enemies.
1) Open borders with all.
2) Cancel all deals with Ragnar/Asoka.
3) Along the west coast to search for galley connection to Oz. (Oz is west from
4) We'll get domestic trade routes in Chicago and Atlanta. Maybe we'll also get some foreign trade routes too.
-------------
It seems we need Astronomy to reach that barb city to the west. Let's send our archers along the west coast to check that out though. Given that we have horses on the spoke, let's settle that.
To conquer the AI, cuirassiers later on or maybe knights. We'll need Optics to check what we're dealing with and after that Astronomy. It makes sense not to attack Ragnar/Asoka. We are still on the right path in my opinion, we should save cash until we get library and hopefully academy too in the capital. The tech we need badly is CoL, we can settle more after that.
Btw, we have to check how exactly are AI team to team relations determined.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Should I cancel all deals with Asoka/Ragnar immediately, even though it will make them mad?
Domestic trade routes in Chicago and Atlanta by themselves are not enough to justify speeding sailing research now. It would only gain us 2 commerce per turn. Waiting until Washington has its library and scientists to increase the tech rate will gain more commerce than that. I think the only thing that justifies finishing sailing quickly would be a foreign trade route, and that's not possible since we don't see any cities, right?
Domestic trade routes in Chicago and Atlanta by themselves are not enough to justify speeding sailing research now. It would only gain us 2 commerce per turn. Waiting until Washington has its library and scientists to increase the tech rate will gain more commerce than that. I think the only thing that justifies finishing sailing quickly would be a foreign trade route, and that's not possible since we don't see any cities, right?
SteelHorse
Deity
Some random thoughts.
Interesting that only East witches have Aplha so far. However someone has Theo and CoL so the final witch pair (or the wizard).
Agree that there is no point in gifts to the East. They will likely be our first target and likely not be a trading partner. Making friends with the West seems much more advantagious. We may need them as partners against the East.
Agree that the horse/copper/sheep/cow/fish looks to be an ideal city from a strategic perspective. A canal city connecting the north and south will be very valuable.
It seems the immediate need is building an economy. Our growth has stymied our research. We are significantly behind in GNP even the lowest AI competitor. Is ther any concern with an SE if we need long term tech for wizard conquest. Or with all the food, can we invest in both Scientist and Cottages.
My biggest concern is that we don't have a longer term stratgey other than a war conquest. What information do we need to develop a grand plan? Do we need knowledge of the wizard? If so, are some galleys needed for exploration? Would we go to war without knowledge of the wizard. If so, under what conditions?
Interesting that only East witches have Aplha so far. However someone has Theo and CoL so the final witch pair (or the wizard).
Agree that there is no point in gifts to the East. They will likely be our first target and likely not be a trading partner. Making friends with the West seems much more advantagious. We may need them as partners against the East.
Agree that the horse/copper/sheep/cow/fish looks to be an ideal city from a strategic perspective. A canal city connecting the north and south will be very valuable.
It seems the immediate need is building an economy. Our growth has stymied our research. We are significantly behind in GNP even the lowest AI competitor. Is ther any concern with an SE if we need long term tech for wizard conquest. Or with all the food, can we invest in both Scientist and Cottages.
My biggest concern is that we don't have a longer term stratgey other than a war conquest. What information do we need to develop a grand plan? Do we need knowledge of the wizard? If so, are some galleys needed for exploration? Would we go to war without knowledge of the wizard. If so, under what conditions?
Yamps
Deity
You mean if some other AI asks you to? No, we don't want bad blood from A/R either. But I don't think they can demand that while we have mandatory 10 turns going. Let's just cancel those deals then.
It's not necessary to actually see the cities, but I forgot the details. DanF wrote some exensive explanations regarding that while he was around. We'd need access to their capital's plot network, sth like that.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
There is no final witch pair. We know them all. The Wizard must be a barbarian. Or he's a special unit owned by one of the witches. That's about the only possibilities.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Well, that means canceling the deals is in the next turn set, so I'll leave them in place. Sorry about that, I guess I should have asked first.
Yamps
Deity
Hmm, not in the save I've downloaded.
Witches of the south are missing there, it says 1 rival unknown. You must have uploaded some earlier version.Oz is most likely in that barb city in the west ocean.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I'll report it to Alan. Apparently, I forgot to save after I met Mansa and took as the screenshots. The only extra action was moving an archer and seeing the Mansa scout.
Yamps
Deity
With Rep + Caste scientists or merchants, we shouldn't build more cottages. They'd take too much time to mature and we'd farm less gpp too in the most important period.
I'm thinking Aesthetics -> Literature -> Music after CoL, we have marble. Music is needed for curries too. Actually, CoL -> Currency before that to get some cash in trades. Standard Philo bulb fast Liberalism game maybe? Conquest with curries, Astro to reach the wizard. Whatever it is, a bunch of units will take him out.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I still like the 'attack and kill Asoka first' plan. But that's for next turn set.
Yamps
Deity
Ha, I've done the same thing in one sgotm too. Save on exit option is your friend!
Yamps
Deity
There's a lot to discuss of course. It seems to me that curries will be our final weapon to win this. With heavy bulbing, it's likely that we can have them even faster then knights. If we go for elephant wars, we'll have to trade more with other AI to get back on track which will make them more stronger. We'll have strong production base so it's research we have to push for.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
The save has been uploaded. My turnset is done. This is an official handoff.
I stopped in 550BC because we got sailing one turn earlier than expected. The New York library comes online next turn. We get a great person in Washington in two turns.
Our cities
Finances
Diplomacy. Asoka and Ragnar are still the only ones with Alphabet.
Ragnar built The Great Lighthouse
Asoka's land
The West. Our westernmost archer defeated a barbarian warrior and is at 2.6/3 with 1/2 XP.
BUFFY Log
The CivFanatics log
I stopped in 550BC because we got sailing one turn earlier than expected. The New York library comes online next turn. We get a great person in Washington in two turns.
Our cities
Spoiler :
Finances
Spoiler :
Diplomacy. Asoka and Ragnar are still the only ones with Alphabet.
Spoiler :
Ragnar built The Great Lighthouse
Spoiler :
Asoka's land
Spoiler :
The West. Our westernmost archer defeated a barbarian warrior and is at 2.6/3 with 1/2 XP.
Spoiler :
BUFFY Log
Spoiler :
The CivFanatics log
Spoiler :
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Nice work, Chris. 
Now what do we do? 
And who's up? One of the 3 skippies, or Jovan? (BTW, it may be awhile before I can do the Status/Progress updates--work is very busy thru Oct 14.)
Some random observations:
With so much land to settle I'm leaning toward delaying our first war.
Now what do we do? And who's up? One of the 3 skippies, or Jovan? (BTW, it may be awhile before I can do the Status/Progress updates--work is very busy thru Oct 14.)Some random observations:
- The demographics screen says we have 80 tiles and our next rival has 71. But the victory screen says we have 6.06% of the land (golly this is a big map) while the leader has 9% of the land. Wha?? [Edit: demo's must break down by individual AIs, while victory counts by team. We're doing well in land but not in population.]
- Our fogusting warriors on the spoke can move out farther if we're only interested in land barbs. Or should we try to stifle barb galleys, too? That'll take a lot more units to really do it.
- If we build a warrior we could send it to the marble area and free up the workboat to net one of Seattle's seafood when the borders pop. Of course, settling the marble site would fogbust, too.
- It'll be awhile to settle, but a city on the tundra forest hill [or the ice W of that] near a/the hub would have sheep, fur, silver, 2 lakes, marble, and clams.
- I wonder how much of an obstacle those western mountains are?
- Based on the English workboat, I'm guessing we'll soon meet the English to the north of our exploring archers, and that Ragnar is south of India.
- Nice that we keep growing forests near NY.
Still probably the best site for Hanging Gardens if we decide to go for it, but I'd hold out for at least 10 cities to make it worthwhile. - Academy in Wash if we get a Great Sci; settle Engineer?
- We're building one worker, and need at least one more soon. We're running pretty lean on workers, but I think that's probably OK--leaves more hammers for other things, and we seem to be keeping up fairly well with population.
With so much land to settle I'm leaning toward delaying our first war.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I updated the test game save file.
This is the fog busting strategy. As you surmise, the intent is to prevent barbarian galleys from spawning, while covering as much land as possible. I do think we can ensure that barbarian galleys which do spawn will be closer to AI than they are to us, and thus ensure our safety from them, at least until we settle the copper city. It only takes two more units, and we have an extra archer on site that just arrived after a long trip from Philadelphia.
This is the fog busting strategy. As you surmise, the intent is to prevent barbarian galleys from spawning, while covering as much land as possible. I do think we can ensure that barbarian galleys which do spawn will be closer to AI than they are to us, and thus ensure our safety from them, at least until we settle the copper city. It only takes two more units, and we have an extra archer on site that just arrived after a long trip from Philadelphia.
Spoiler :
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Also note that the workboat that explored Asoka's coast will be able to get across the culture bridge when Seattle's borders pop. If we can free up the fogbusting workboat, then we can net both of Seattle's seafood immediately after its borders pop.
Agree on academy, not sure on Engineer. We might want to use an Engineer on a wonder?
I diverted from the plan to build a worker in Atlanta instead of the Library - partly because we are short on workers, but also because you pointed out that Atlanta should be a production city. Once those three hills are mined, it will be able to produce well.
I'm ambivalent. Conquering what appears to be great land in Asoka's territory might be just as good.
Nice work Chris! Great teamwork with help during the pause, too, 
Sorry I'm not much help... too busy.
The roster now stands at:
Jovan = UP
Yamps = on-deck
Xcal = standsby
@Yamps: if you still arent ready and Jovan doesn't show, just swap places with Xcal.
@Jovan: Convince us to do the right thing!
But most of all let us know your availability.
Great teamwork with help during the pause, too, Sorry I'm not much help... too busy.
The roster now stands at:
Jovan = UP
Yamps = on-deck
Xcal = standsby
@Yamps: if you still arent ready and Jovan doesn't show, just swap places with Xcal.
@Jovan: Convince us to do the right thing!
But most of all let us know your availability.
Yamps
Deity
Barb galleys have limited target visibility, they see ~7 tiles in the fog. (I forgot the exact number, 7 or 8, TMIT posted about it in S&T forum.) We're probably safe already, until we settle the copper spot of course.
@kcd
I've missed some work related deadliness
so I might need a swap with Xcal. (I'll know better tomorrow.) Things should clear up by the end of the week though.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
In that case, the two warriors should be able to do the job, and I recommend leaving them in place fortified. The archer can move past them and serve as ground unit defense.
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