SGOTM 14 - Plastic Ducks

Bebekija said:

You seem to be certain that we will be able to make the Math<->Alpha trade. Yet the one team that we can trade with right now is unwilling to make that trade. So I'm not sure I share this confidence. But then again I don't have your experience in this game so I'm inclined to trust you on that once again.
In any case, I'll admit that the benefits of getting Alpha right now are kinda thin, so I won't make a big deal out of this.

Regarding city micro, why a warrior in Silk? It already has the former spawnbuster as MP. Is it for future cities (Dye?)?

Click to expand...

Math<->Alpha is probably ~50% likely to happen. We know all teams went through Religious techs so as soon as one of them gets Monarchy they're likely to trade for Alphabet. Math is worth quite a bit less than Alpha so it's unlikely to be traded for it.

In any case, we can wait for as long as T91~92 to trade for Alpha, when we have to bulb Philo.

Duckweed said:

we need 1 for Phi, 1 for for NY, 1 for canal, that's 3 from NY,Silk, and canal.

Click to expand...

Right I forgot about Philly.

kossin said:

Just a note about the test game: the holy confucian city has gone rogue so don't expect spreads unless you fix it. Somehow WB seems to remove the holy city whenever you remove a religion in one city.

Click to expand...

I really don't know how to repair this... At least, we can test the worst case without any confu spread.

In the WB menu, there's an "Edit city" icon.
Click on Boston and then you should be able to add the holy city.

But like you said, being able to test the worst case scenario is not necessarily bad.

PPP

Toto goes back home. (I will not repeat this.)

General

- if an AI (but another than Mansa or Shaka) offers math <-> alpha in his turn, accept
- do not open borders with South
- if possible, open borders with West
- stop, if another AI has alpha
- if Mansa or Shaka asks for a favour of any kind, reject
- if Asoka or Rahnar asks for a favour of any kind, agree
- if any other AI asks for a favour of any kind, reject

T82

- switch research from Metal Casting to Aesthetics
- turn on the city governor and emphasize food in Atlanta, Chicago and Seattle
- to make the further text brief, I will put these buildings/units to queues now:
- Washington: Pyramids -> confucian monastery
- NY: warrior -> granary -> barracks
- Boston: granary -> lighthouse -> workboat
- Philly: workboat -> granary
- Atlanta: warrior -> barracks
- Seattle: workboat -> warrior -> barracks
- Chicago: lighthouse -> barracks
- workboat 41 from Philly moves 41
- warrior in Boston on sentry
- warrior 47 from Washington moves to Washington

- worker 74 from Chicago prechops
- one worker 23 from Seattle chops
- the other worker 23 from Seattle moves 88 from Washington
- worker 23 from Washington prechops
- both workers near Atlanta (2 from Atlanta, resp. 21 from Atlanta) move 6 from Atlanta

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[2x(grassland forest 2F1H)]
- NY works wheet+deer and hires 3 scientists

T83

- warrior in Washington on sentry
- workboat from Seattle 87 moves from Seattle
- workboat 22222 from Washington moves 44

- worker 22 from Boston chops
- one worker 6 from Atlanta moves 11 from Washington
- the other worker 6 from Atlanta moves 14 from Washington
- worker 744 from Chicago chops
- worker 23 from Seattle moves 8 from Washington
- worker 88 from Washington prechops


T84

- workboat 87 from Seattle moves 44 from Seattle
- workboat moving towards Atlanta moves 77

- worker 74 from Chicago chops
- worker 744 from Chicago moves 4 from Chicago
- worker 8 from Washington prechops
- worker 14 from Washington prechops
- worker 11 from Washington prechops
- worker 23 from Washington chops
- worker 22 from Boston moves 222 from Boston

- Boston works rice+crabs+stone+oasis

T85

- workboat moving towards Atlanta moves 3 from Atlanta
- workboat 44 from Seattle moves 41 from Seattle and improves the clam

- worker 4 from Chicago moves 2 from Chicago
- worker 74 from Chicago moves 8 from Chicago
- worker 222 from Boston prechops
- worker 23 from Washington moves 3 from Washington
- worker 88 from Washington chops

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[3x(grassland forest 2F1H)]

T86

- the new warrior from NY moves 6 from Atlanta
- the workboat 3 from Atlanta improves the crabs

- worker 2 from Chicago builds a road
- worker 8 from Chicago builds a road
- worker 3 from Washington prechops
- worker 11 from Washington chops
- worker 14 from Washington chops (make sure that the chop goes into Pyramids)
- worker 8 from Washington chops
- worker 88 from Washington moves 9 from Washington

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+(grassland forest 2F1H)+(silk 1F2H1C)+(spices 1F1H2C)
- Boston works rice+crabs+stone+gold+oasis
- Philly works [2x(grassland forest 2F1H)]+(grassland with fresh water 2F1C) EDIT: Maybe it is better to work 2x(grassland forest 2F1H) and hire an artist now

T87

- warrior 6 from Atlanta moves to Atlanta, on sentry

- worker 8 from Washington moves 41 from Boston and builds a farm
- worker 9 from Washington prechops
- worker 14 from Washington moves 44 from Washington
- worker 11 from Washington moves 12 from Washington
- worker 222 from Boston chops

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+(grassland forest 2F1H)+(silk 1F2H1C)+(spices 1F1H2C)+(mined plains hill 4H)

T88

- pause, save, report, upload

^^I'll take a look tonight.

Same.

@PPP

General: Grant for any resource demand.

T82: "- the other worker 23 from Seattle moves 88 from Washington" Is that tile Spice? Which is more clear for me to read if you could do me a favor.

A small tip for PPP, if there's no other action, you can directly tell the final destination of units rather than tell their move in every turn. So you don't need to write the intermediate position.

T83: 2 workers from Atlanta goes to the silk tile and the grassland hill tile in Washington respectively, since I'd like to save the grassland forest for granary in NY.

Same thing here, you can just say that move the Seattle WB to clam. Also you don't need to say worker prechop action again. You can make your plan more concise this way.

T86: I don't understand here, from your PPP, the forest on Spice should be already chopped last turn and the silk forest will also be chopped this turn, so the 1F1H1C is not a good choice. However, if the Alt worker moves to the GH forest on T83, then we should still have 2 2F1H tiles to work this turn, so the 7th citizen can work on 4H tile (if we favor production) or the lake tile (if we favor growth and commerce. I'm for this choice since it can also let Washington grows to size 9 1 turn earlier).

T87: Washington: (2 2F1H + 2F2C + 4H)

Looks good to me, except that I think it's better to work the lake tiles rather than the spice tile once it's chopped, or the plains hill on T87.

EDIT : Xpost with Duckweed, glad to see we agree (if I understand right)

T85
I understand this saves 2 worker turns in Chicago, but the problem is that on T90 both Washington and Seattle will be unhappy. This loses at least 4F or some gpp. Move 1 tile, farm+cancel then go with both workers to the silver.

The alternative is to revolt to Confucianism on T90 but this has a nasty consequence in delayed 2nd Confu missionary.

T86, yes definitely hire the Artist in Philly. Working the clams on the turn the border pops gains 1C over riverside grassland.

Duckweed said:

T82: "- the other worker 23 from Seattle moves 88 from Washington" Is that tile Spice? Which is more clear for me to read if you could do me a favor.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is.

Duckweed said:

A small tip for PPP, if there's no other action, you can directly tell the final destination of units rather than tell their move in every turn. So you don't need to write the intermediate position.

Click to expand...

Duckweed said:

Same thing here, you can just say that move the Seattle WB to clam. Also you don't need to say worker prechop action again. You can make your plan more concise this way.

Click to expand...

If I will play another one miniset until T91, I will try to make the PPP more clear. I wanted to stay consistent with the way I wrote my plans earlier but I understand that this becomes uncomfortable with more units and cities.

~~~~~~~~~~

As usual, you all gave me some cool tips which led to the following...

Updated PPP

Changes.

Toto goes back home. (I will not repeat this.)

General

- if an AI (but another than Mansa or Shaka) offers math <-> alpha in his turn, accept
- do not open borders with South
- if possible, open borders with West
- stop, if another AI has alpha
- if Mansa or Shaka asks for a favour of any kind (except a resource demand), reject
- if Asoka or Ragnar asks for a favour of any kind, agree
- if any other AI asks for a favour of any kind (except a resource demand), reject
- if an AI asks for a resource, agree

T82

- switch research from Metal Casting to Aesthetics
- turn on the city governor and emphasize food in Atlanta, Chicago and Seattle
- to make the further text brief, I will put these buildings/units to queues now:
- Washington: Pyramids -> confucian monastery
- NY: warrior -> granary -> barracks
- Boston: granary -> lighthouse -> workboat
- Philly: workboat -> granary
- Atlanta: warrior -> barracks
- Seattle: workboat -> warrior -> barracks
- Chicago: lighthouse -> barracks
- workboat 41 from Philly moves 41
- warrior in Boston on sentry
- warrior 47 from Washington moves to Washington

- worker 74 from Chicago prechops
- one worker 23 from Seattle chops
- the other worker 23 from Seattle moves 88 from Washington (= to the spices)
- worker 23 from Washington prechops
- both workers near Atlanta (2 from Atlanta, resp. 21 from Atlanta) move 6 from Atlanta

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[2x(grassland forest 2F1H)]
- NY works wheet+deer and hires 3 scientists

T83

- warrior in Washington on sentry
- workboat from Seattle 87 moves from Seattle
- workboat 22222 from Washington moves 44

- worker 22 from Boston chops
- one worker 6 from Atlanta moves 11 from Washington
- the other worker 6 from Atlanta moves 44 from Washington (= to the silk)
- worker 744 from Chicago chops
- worker 23 from Seattle moves 8 from Washington
- worker 88 from Washington prechops


T84

- workboat 87 from Seattle moves 44 from Seattle
- workboat moving towards Atlanta moves 77

- worker 74 from Chicago chops
- worker 744 from Chicago moves 44 from Chicago, builds a farm and cancels his mission
- worker 8 from Washington prechops
- worker 44 from Washington prechops
- worker 11 from Washington prechops
- worker 23 from Washington chops
- worker 22 from Boston moves 222 from Boston

- Boston works rice+crabs+stone+oasis

T85

- workboat moving towards Atlanta moves 3 from Atlanta
- workboat 44 from Seattle moves 41 from Seattle and improves the clam

- worker 44 from Chicago moves 8 from Chicago
- worker 74 from Chicago moves 8 from Chicago
- worker 222 from Boston prechops
- worker 23 from Washington moves 3 from Washington
- worker 88 from Washington chops

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[3x(grassland forest 2F1H)]

T86

- the new warrior from NY moves 6 from Atlanta
- the workboat 3 from Atlanta improves the crabs

- both workers 8 from Chicago build a mine
- worker 3 from Washington prechops
- worker 11 from Washington chops
- worker 44 from Washington chops (make sure that the chop goes into Pyramids)
- worker 8 from Washington chops
- worker 88 from Washington moves 9 from Washington

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[2x(grassland forest 2F1H)]+(lake 2F2C)
- Boston works rice+crabs+stone+gold+oasis
- Philly works 2x(grassland forest 2F1H) and hires an artist now

T87

- warrior 6 from Atlanta moves to Atlanta, on sentry

- worker 8 from Washington moves 41 from Boston and builds a farm
- worker 9 from Washington prechops
- worker 44 from Washington moves 14 from Washington
- worker 11 from Washington moves 12 from Washington
- worker 222 from Boston chops

- Washington works sheep+corn+cows+(mined grassland hill)+[2x(grassland forest 2F1H)]+(lake 2F2C)+(mined plains hill 4H)

T88

- pause, save, report, upload

@Deity player

Duckweed said:

T83: 2 workers from Atlanta goes to the silk tile and the grassland hill tile in Washington respectively, since I'd like to save the grassland forest for granary in NY.

Click to expand...

You did not catch this. The tile is 2S of the silk or how to express in your way, it's not 11 from Washington, but 1S of 11 from Washington. That's why I don't like those numbers, it's very hard to read so I mostly have not looked into your worker micro. That forest will go to Washington automatically. The 1st round chop has to go to Washington to complete mids. After that one of the worker moves to the grassland forest shared by NY and Washington (11 of Washington/33 of NY) and chop it to NY (make sure to change the tile to NY at that time).

Duckweed said:

@Deity player



You did not catch this. The tile is 2S of the silk or how to express in your way, it's not 11 from Washington, but 1S of 11 from Washington. That's why I don't like those numbers, it's very hard to read so I mostly have not looked into your worker micro. That forest will go to Washington automatically. The 1st round chop has to go to Washington to complete mids. After that one of the worker moves to the grassland forest shared by NY and Washington (11 of Washington/33 of NY) and chop it to NY (make sure to change the tile to NY at that time).

Click to expand...

If I have the same grassland hill tile on my mind then it is 11 of Washington (and 2S of the silk). Didn't you overlook?

As I said, I will try to use those numbers much less next time.

If the Silk is 44 in your way of description of position, then how do you describe 1S of silk (seems to me it's 11 in your plan) and 2S of silk (? which is the hill tile I referred). Moreover, except the color, you actually did not change anything on this in your updated plan.

I did:

Deity player said:

- one worker 6 from Atlanta moves 11 from Washington
- the other worker 6 from Atlanta moves 14 from Washington

Click to expand...

Deity player said:

- one worker 6 from Atlanta moves 11 from Washington
- the other worker 6 from Atlanta moves 44 from Washington (= to the silk)

Click to expand...

Here is an older image:

So silk is 44 from Washington, the grassland forest 1S of the silk is 14 from Washington and the grassland hill 2S of the silk is 11 from Washington.

OK, I see. As I said, I have trouble of reading those numbers. I misinterpreted 11 as the grassland tile. Good to go.

^^^ Yea, it seemed unnatural to me at first too, I'm always looking at my Numpad when I'm at home to check

Green. Also feel free to move the Confu missionary if we get a spread in Canal (or stop).

^^ If we get any useful Confu spread, I will stop since then there could be a possibility of a better worker micro in Chicago:

kossin said:

T85
I understand this saves 2 worker turns in Chicago, but the problem is that on T90 both Washington and Seattle will be unhappy. This loses at least 4F or some gpp. Move 1 tile, farm+cancel then go with both workers to the silver.

The alternative is to revolt to Confucianism on T90 but this has a nasty consequence in delayed 2nd Confu missionary.

Click to expand...

Green light as well.

I played 1T and... Confu spred in Chicago!

So now, it should be possible to do the worker micro in Chicago according to my previous PPP (= roading the silver with 1 worker and roading the desert hill with the other worker, then mining the silver with both workers) and convert to Confu on T90, what do you think?