Remove Europe?

Kink · Dec 4, 2011

Is there any way to delete Europe\Migration, and to change first position of nations (make them to appear not in ocean, but at land like in simple Civ IV)?
Just to make Colonization like Civ 4, but with awesome economic system.

raystuttgart · Dec 4, 2011

Kink said:
Is there any way to delete Europe\Migration, and to change first position of nations (make them to appear not in ocean, but at land like in simple Civ IV)?
Just to make Colonization like Civ 4, but with awesome economic system.

Generally "everything" is possible.

Kaliric has done things like that with Medieval: Conquests.

But if you want to do something like that yourself be warned:
This really requires heavy heavy modding skills (DLL, Python, ...) !

Androrc the Orc · Dec 10, 2011

Kink said:
Is there any way to delete Europe\Migration, and to change first position of nations (make them to appear not in ocean, but at land like in simple Civ IV)?
Just to make Colonization like Civ 4, but with awesome economic system.

It is possible. The problem is that if Europe is gone, you would need another way to sell goods such as coats.

orlanth · Dec 11, 2011

Is there any way to delete Europe\Migration, and to change first position of nations (make them to appear not in ocean, but at land like in simple Civ IV)?
Just to make Colonization like Civ 4, but with awesome economic system.

That's an interesting idea. I think you can change to a land starting position easily by setting <bWaterStart>0</bWaterStart> in CivilizationInfos.xml .

Migration could be decreased or eliminated using the following in civ4unitinfos:
<iEuropeCost>-
<iEuropeCostIncrease>
<iImmigrationWeight>
<iImmigrationWeightDecay>

You would still need a way for players to access skilled colonist types, but you could make them buildable in colonies using goods if you want.

As Androrc pointed out, each civ has to have a Europe parent civ to have prices set for the various goods. If your goal is for civs to have more of an internal economy and you want to try this without heavy heavy modding skills (which I also dont have :blush:

), it might be easier to leave Europe in but make it difficult (or even impossible) to get to by increasing travel time and/or removing the Access to Europe tiles. Then if you want to have colonies generate cash from goods, you could try using Buildings that have <iOverflowSellPercent>.

Fullerene · Dec 26, 2011

Making Colonization to play more like Civilization is something I'd like to see. I wonder if it's possible within the modding tools we have.
Indeed, removing Europe Screen is possible, or at least you can remove access to it. But I wonder if removing the king player is possible? In civ, nations are all independent so there obviously shouldn't be king popups about rising taxes and so on.

Some broad ideas about the possible Civilization4:Colonization:Civilization :rolleyes:

mod:

- Every city could have its own 'Europe' screen. In these screens you could sell goods like coats and sugar for the abstract citizens. Prices would be determined by population and recent history what city has bought. It would be also possible to sell goods in foreign cities, and maybe you could gather taxes from foreign traders who sell goods in your cities or something like that. Goods sold in cities would just disappear, because they are consumed by the peoples.

-There already exists somekind of invention mod with tech tree for Civ4:Col , so tech advancement is certainly possible.Maybe the founding father points could be fusioned with tech advancement. For example, when you explore water tiles , you gain navigation points which are required/help to discover seafaring technologies. Generating crosses helps to discover religious techs,building a wonder boosts engineering skills... There's lot of possibilities.

-Liberty Bells could expand borders, like they do already.

- Every unit could have a nationality and maybe a religion too.So Elder statesmen could try to convert your conquered cities to your own nationality and preachers to religion.

Well, I have lot of ideas for game like this but first we need some basic info:

1.) Is it possible to do? Does game engine allow removing king player?
2.) Do we have modders who are interested in this? I can do some programming myself, but don't expect me to write decent AI behaviour or things like that.
3.) Of course not only heavy modding skills, it requires heavy modding work. Is it worth it?

Androrc the Orc · Dec 26, 2011

Fullerene said:
1.) Is it possible to do? Does game engine allow removing king player?

Yes, it is fully possible (and easy) to remove the king player. All you need to do for that is remove the colonial civilizations' tags from the DerivativeCivilization fields in the civilizations xml. The problem is making those civilizations playable even without immigration and the Europe screen, which is also fully possible, but requires effort.

2.) Do we have modders who are interested in this? I can do some programming myself, but don't expect me to write decent AI behaviour or things like that.

I am interested in this

and many others (such as KJ Jansson) have been as well, but it takes work.

Although not exactly what you want, you may want to check out my Domestic Market modcomp, as well as KJ Jansson's 1492 Global Colonization mod development thread.

3.) Of course not only heavy modding skills, it requires heavy modding work. Is it worth it?

I think it is worth it, but rather than try to solve all of the issues involving a global game at once, I recommend first doing a modcomp to tackle one of the issues you see in that direction.

Kink · Feb 4, 2012

Wow, so many ideas.

Fullerene said:
- Every city could have its own 'Europe' screen. In these screens you could sell goods like coats and sugar for the abstract citizens. Prices would be determined by population and recent history what city has bought. It would be also possible to sell goods in foreign cities, and maybe you could gather taxes from foreign traders who sell goods in your cities or something like that. Goods sold in cities would just disappear, because they are consumed by the peoples.

It's interesting, but umm, difficult? Micromanagment is cool thing, but europe screen for each sity will cause too much micromanagment at later eras

I got idea about inner trade:
There would be special building (let's call it "Market") So, Market will have its menu, where player can choose which resources are tradeable, and which are non-tradeable. Then, "Market" will consume "tradeable" resources (amount of consumed resources will depend on number of population)

Culture:
So, someone in this topic said, that we don't need to change "liberty Bells"
Well, maybe just change an icon, and rename it to "culture"? And change category of founding fathers - "Politics" to "culture" (and "religion" to "science")

excuse my english, if smth wrong

Fullerene · Dec 29, 2013

Sorry to dig the thread out from its grave, but I have questions that fits here best.

My goal is to make game playable without the "king" faction. Sort of independence mod.

I used few hours to do the following:

Removed DerivativeCiv tag from "Byzantine Europe" civ (I'm using Medival:Conquest as base mod)

I searched "NO_PLAYER" and "Parent" words in SDK and commented out or made changes where appropriate.

Prices (as placeholder) would be determined by each civ individually. (What I mean is since there is no king player that is determining the prices, so all prices are determined for every player by it's own class/object... I lack words to describe it better but you know what I mean.)

But I never managed to make AI build city nevertheless... and then I got crash that the Visual Studio couldn't identify where it happened. I guess the crashing code is located in exe. So I decided to took pause and ask if others have maybe experimented on similar idea.
So my questions are:

Does anyone know that what I'm trying is even possible to do? (In other words: Is there something in EXE that might make it impossible?)
More technical question: Can the changes made in DLL cause crash happen so that Visual Studio can't "catch" it? (That is it can't locate where the crash happens.)
Has anyone else tried something similar? Did you get any results? (Yes, I know about Kailric's Medieval mod, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for)

If this is deemed impossible or too difficult to do there are other options to achieve similar results:

Try to make the King faction more playable, so it is actually the playable nation.
Or reduce king player actions.(No taxes, No REF invasions)
Or just leave things as they are, but change the king into something else. (Like the rebel system talked in a World History Conversation thread)

Just wondering :mischief:

Spoiler :

Androrc the Orc · Dec 30, 2013

Fullerene said:
More technical question: Can the changes made in DLL cause crash happen so that Visual Studio can't "catch" it? (That is it can't locate where the crash happens.)

Yes, if it breaks something that exists in the .exe. Regarding your problem in particular, I've faced a similar issue in the past: if I remember correctly, because the .exe searches for civilizations that are derivative civilizations to randomly pick for games, if you remove all derivative civilization fields it will cause a crash upon starting a new game.

Kailric · Dec 30, 2013

Fullerene said:
Does anyone know that what I'm trying is even possible to do? (In other words: Is there something in EXE that might make it impossible?)

More technical question: Can the changes made in DLL cause crash happen so that Visual Studio can't "catch" it? (That is it can't locate where the crash happens.)

Has anyone else tried something similar? Did you get any results? (Yes, I know about Kailric's Medieval mod, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for)

It is completely possible to remove the King factor. Let's think on this... the king raises your taxes, hounds you for gold, is accessible through diplomacy screen, and adds to the REF (maybe more things but that is the majority).

Raises your Taxes
Go to doPrices() in CvPlayer and comment out the code below the //do tax rate change. The king will no longer change your tax rate.

adds to the REF
Go to doBells() in CvPlayer and comment out everything below the if statement
Code:
```
if (getBellsStored() >= revolutionEuropeUnitThreshold() && iBellsRate > GC.getCivilizationInfo(getCivilizationType()).getFreeYields(YIELD_BELLS))
```
hounds for gold
Go to CvPlayerAI and comment out the below code. I moddified it for M:C so not sure what the orginal was but it should be close.
Code:
```
if (!kPlayer.isHuman() || !abContacted[kPlayer.getTeam()])
	{
		if (AI_doDiploKissPinky(ePlayer))
		{
			if (kPlayer.isHuman())
				{
											abContacted[kPlayer.getTeam()] = true;
			}
				}
		}
```
Is Accessible through Diplomacy screen
This is in Python and I want go into that now but it's do able.

Also, I remember now the King talks to you if you attempt to found your first city away from water, or if you loose a ship, or you find a treasure. All these are removable as well. The easiest way I have found to do this is when the King pops up take note of what he says. Then search for that text in the XML files until you find the corresponding code.

Example..
The King says "Please deliver 500 immediately". You will need to search for the "Please deliver" as the 500 gold is written in xml code. You find it under..
Code:
```
<TEXT>
		<Tag>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_1</Tag>
		<English>Please deliver %d1[ICON_GOLD] immediately.</English>
		<French>Veuillez immédiatement nous faire parvenir %d1[ICON_GOLD].</French>
		<German>Bitte liefert sofort %d1[ICON_GOLD].</German>
		<Italian>Consegna immediatamente %d1[ICON_GOLD].</Italian>
		<Spanish>Por favor, entregad %d1 [ICON_GOLD] de inmediato.</Spanish>
	</TEXT>
```
Now search for "AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_1", which is found under...
Code:
```
<DiplomacyInfo>
			<Type>AI_DIPLOCOMMENT_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD</Type>
			<Responses>
				<Response>
					<Civilizations/>
					<Leaders/>
					<Attitudes/>
					<DiplomacyPowers/>
					<DiplomacyText>
						<Text>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_1</Text>
						<Text>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_2</Text>
						<Text>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_3</Text>
						<Text>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_4</Text>
						<Text>AI_DIPLO_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD_5</Text>
					</DiplomacyText>
				</Response>
			</Responses>
		</DiplomacyInfo>
```
The DiplomacyInfo tag "AI_DIPLOCOMMENT_KING_ASK_FOR_GOLD" is what you search for in the dll. Which is found as mentioned above in CvPlayerAI.cpp under AI_doDiploKissPinky().

This would probably be the simple way to remove the King, he is still there but does nothing and can not be seen and simply just changes the prices of your goods. There is just so much code that is tied to the Kings that it would take a major overhaul to totally remove him I am afraid.

Edit: I plan on adding Civs to M:C that have no kings or popes just so people can try out this play style, at some point

Fullerene · Dec 31, 2013

Yeah, I guess inactivating the king is the easiest road to walk.And I agree that Byzantine Empire shouldn't have pope in your Medieval mod.

Thanks for the tips!

Nightinggale · Jan 1, 2014

Androrc the Orc said:
Although not exactly what you want, you may want to check out my Domestic Market modcomp

I already added a modified version of the domestic market to M:C.

M:C has land start civs, where immigrants shows up in your city, or travel from a nearby native city. This should completely solve the issue with immigration without Europe.

M:C used to have a market fair (removed in 2.0). A unit with peddler profession could then stand in your own city and you would have a "go to Europe" like button just like vanilla ships on the high seas. This allows a Europe screen, which isn't "off map" like in vanilla. I wonder what it would take to bring that feature back. Presumably not much.

Kailric · Jan 1, 2014

Nightinggale said:
M:C used to have a market fair (removed in 2.0). A unit with peddler profession could then stand in your own city and you would have a "go to Europe" like button just like vanilla ships on the high seas. This allows a Europe screen, which isn't "off map" like in vanilla. I wonder what it would take to bring that feature back. Presumably not much.

This isn't done away with in the 2.0 version

you have to gain enough Trade Points to learn the Trade Fair perk. Then you can travel to The Fair from your cities.

Nightinggale · Jan 1, 2014

Kailric said:
This isn't done away with in the 2.0 version you have to gain enough Trade Points to learn the Trade Fair perk. Then you can travel to The Fair from your cities.

Heh. I guess I really should completely finish a game at some point. However we need better economics for that to be fun enough to do that.
I guess that mean the Trade Fair is accessible from XML without modifying the DLL. Makes it even easier to do what I wrote about than I imagined.

Remove Europe?

Kink

Chieftain

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder

Androrc the Orc

Emperor

orlanth

Storm God. Yarr!

Fullerene

Warlord

Androrc the Orc

Emperor

Kink

Chieftain

Fullerene

Warlord

Androrc the Orc

Emperor

Kailric

Jack of All Trades

Fullerene

Warlord

Nightinggale

Deity

Kailric

Jack of All Trades

Nightinggale

Deity

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