SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
SteelHorse
Deity
From the HoF, the dates (#1 to #10) range for each victory condition (emperor, normal speed, standard size):
Conquest 940AD-1290AD
Domination 775BC - 1270AD
Space Colony 1685AD 1820AD
Time 2050AD (that one's mine, btw)
Religious 450BC - 1824AD
Diplomatic 1270AD - 1680AD (that one's owned by AAA)
Cultural 1530AD - 1824AD
kcd - i have not done a lot with HOF. can you post links to the 450BC Religious and 1530AD cultural games.
I'd like to at least think a bit about the AP route before plowing the cultural path. The advantage of cultural obviously is that it does not require us to explore the world and build a huge army. The con is the length of time. We need at least one site cranking out GAs.
The advantage of AP religious is far earlier time potential, but we do need to meet everyone and get them each at least one city with our religion and getting someone to vote for us. What other challenges do folks see with the AP religious victory path?
High King J.J.
Prince
What +10%? Doesn't it give +25% to hammering on buildings?
I think State Property gives +10% production but not limited on buildings.
I like cultural but AP would still be nice for the hammers and because when we kill Toku or two we get that fat gold statue religion and could lose if it goes to a butt-headist civ. (We are obviously the beavist religion civ. We are going to steal Toku's corn because, well, We are the great Cornholio from Titicaca! Are you threatening me?)
Build the Oracle, try to get Theo, then start thinking about when Toku(s) are going to die.
Just wanted to prove I'm still alive, barely. Or undead, maybe. Braindead, definitely.
SteelHorse
Deity
Mirrored Xcals testing but going a different tech route. Mason, Mono, PH, Writing but ended up exactly the same turn getting Oracle.
Research is the limiting factor to getting Theo from Oracle. It can be chopped or/and whipped in less turns that it take to get Writing as Xcal points out.
With chop and whip can probably get AP in a couple less than 19. Will play a little more to see if I can shave a turn or two off, but nothing obvious comes to mind. Will post a PPP tomorrow.
One thought is to switch out of Slavery and save 1gpt, but that may be a little risky if a barb warrior takes down one of our guys. I did one 2-pop whip in my test to get an earlier FW out of Bolly.
Research is the limiting factor to getting Theo from Oracle. It can be chopped or/and whipped in less turns that it take to get Writing as Xcal points out.
With chop and whip can probably get AP in a couple less than 19. Will play a little more to see if I can shave a turn or two off, but nothing obvious comes to mind. Will post a PPP tomorrow.
One thought is to switch out of Slavery and save 1gpt, but that may be a little risky if a barb warrior takes down one of our guys. I did one 2-pop whip in my test to get an earlier FW out of Bolly.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Just to confirm, did you keep in mind the 1gpt difference between the test and real game, SH?
I tried Masonry -> Mono -> PH -> Writing, as SH did, and also pastured the pigs before mining the gems (unlike last time). It cost me 2 extra turns to get to Writing (T72 vs 70 in my first game). Which did you improve first, SH? I also had trouble finishing the Oracle on the same turn, requiring 2 chops. I'd definitely say that mining those gems comes before getting the pigs. PH first gives more flexibility on finishing the Oracle (since we can start it earlier, perhaps saving a forest or two for settlers), but we'd get Mono 3 turns later (with greater risk of losing the founding of Judaism).
Key comparisons:
Game 1--gems before pigs, PH/Mason/Mono/Writing--Writing done on T70, Oracle could be done then, too, with two chops.
Game 2--pigs before gems, Mason/Mono/PH/Writing--Writing and Oracle on T72 with 2 chops. (I was a little sloppy on this, so T71 might be doable).
In both, city pops were 7,5,3,2.
I tried Masonry -> Mono -> PH -> Writing, as SH did, and also pastured the pigs before mining the gems (unlike last time). It cost me 2 extra turns to get to Writing (T72 vs 70 in my first game). Which did you improve first, SH? I also had trouble finishing the Oracle on the same turn, requiring 2 chops. I'd definitely say that mining those gems comes before getting the pigs. PH first gives more flexibility on finishing the Oracle (since we can start it earlier, perhaps saving a forest or two for settlers), but we'd get Mono 3 turns later (with greater risk of losing the founding of Judaism).
Key comparisons:
Game 1--gems before pigs, PH/Mason/Mono/Writing--Writing done on T70, Oracle could be done then, too, with two chops.
Game 2--pigs before gems, Mason/Mono/PH/Writing--Writing and Oracle on T72 with 2 chops. (I was a little sloppy on this, so T71 might be doable).
In both, city pops were 7,5,3,2.
SteelHorse
Deity
My test was Gems first - which I agree is better for research.
I did not take the 1gpt into account. Will now do a deeper test and take that into account.
The advantage of mason/mono first is Judiasm sooner. Not sure if that is a risk or not.
So the trade on PH v Mason/Judiasm is Temple sooner v Judiasm sooner.
I focused on getting the trade routes completed early by whipping a FW in Bolly on T51. Though I did mistakenly improve sheep before completing the trade route.
If we can deal with the barb warrior in the south, I think we can safely switch out of slavery for a few turns as there is no cost to switch back in. And as I said, I only whipped once.
I also had to blow up one of Peter's cities that got the Oracle in 1600. Took me a bit to figure out how to do in WB eventually just deleted the units in the city and put a barb in. Weirdly, it did not appear that Peter had PH (but maybe I am just too novice in WB).
In any event will get a proper PPP out by the afternoon US ET. And test game save. Thoughts the PH v Mason->Mono route are appreciated as well as the switch out of slavery.
Toying with the idea of testing writing first to get a lib while teching PH, start oracle, then mason->mono. But then we may not have enough units for barb patrol.
Here are my chicken scratch notes for the early turns.
------------
T50
Switch to Masonry
W1 1W, W2 1S, W3 NA, W4 1W (These are warrior moves with number 1 being the farthest west).
Set 1W
T51
W1 into Delhi, W2 F, W3 1S (if barb moves west), W4 1W
Set 2W
FW1 3W,
Bolly 2 pop FW
T52
W1 F, W2 NA, W3 1W, W4 1W
Set 1W
Bolly War(1), Delhi War(13)
Fw3(Dehli) 1NW Road, FW4(bolly) 1SE Road
FW1 Copper, Fw2 Road Copper
T53
Found Bombay
Res 60% Mas(1)
W5 (bolly) 1NW
Dehli War, Bolly War, Bombay FW (working sheep)
FW2 3W
T54
FW2 Gems Mine, FW1 3W, FW4 1NW+1W+road, FW3 1NW Road
Res 0%
Bolly Axe(5)
W6 (bolly) F
T55
W5 1N
FW1 gems mine
T56
W5 1NW
FW3 1W(deer)
Gems mined, FW2 sheep Bombay works gems
FW4 1W road
T57
W5 1NW
FW2 past, Fw1 Sheep
Res 100%
T58
W5 Explore NW
Delhi finish Was, start FW (maybe should have done FW instead of war)
T59
Axe 1NW
Bolly(set),
FW3 1W Road,
TR to Bombay in.
T60
Hindu spreads to Bombay
T61
Res 70% Mono(1)
T62
Found Jud
-----------
I did not take the 1gpt into account. Will now do a deeper test and take that into account.
The advantage of mason/mono first is Judiasm sooner. Not sure if that is a risk or not.
So the trade on PH v Mason/Judiasm is Temple sooner v Judiasm sooner.
I focused on getting the trade routes completed early by whipping a FW in Bolly on T51. Though I did mistakenly improve sheep before completing the trade route.
If we can deal with the barb warrior in the south, I think we can safely switch out of slavery for a few turns as there is no cost to switch back in. And as I said, I only whipped once.
I also had to blow up one of Peter's cities that got the Oracle in 1600. Took me a bit to figure out how to do in WB eventually just deleted the units in the city and put a barb in. Weirdly, it did not appear that Peter had PH (but maybe I am just too novice in WB).
In any event will get a proper PPP out by the afternoon US ET. And test game save. Thoughts the PH v Mason->Mono route are appreciated as well as the switch out of slavery.
Toying with the idea of testing writing first to get a lib while teching PH, start oracle, then mason->mono. But then we may not have enough units for barb patrol.
Here are my chicken scratch notes for the early turns.
------------
T50
Switch to Masonry
W1 1W, W2 1S, W3 NA, W4 1W (These are warrior moves with number 1 being the farthest west).
Set 1W
T51
W1 into Delhi, W2 F, W3 1S (if barb moves west), W4 1W
Set 2W
FW1 3W,
Bolly 2 pop FW
T52
W1 F, W2 NA, W3 1W, W4 1W
Set 1W
Bolly War(1), Delhi War(13)
Fw3(Dehli) 1NW Road, FW4(bolly) 1SE Road
FW1 Copper, Fw2 Road Copper
T53
Found Bombay
Res 60% Mas(1)
W5 (bolly) 1NW
Dehli War, Bolly War, Bombay FW (working sheep)
FW2 3W
T54
FW2 Gems Mine, FW1 3W, FW4 1NW+1W+road, FW3 1NW Road
Res 0%
Bolly Axe(5)
W6 (bolly) F
T55
W5 1N
FW1 gems mine
T56
W5 1NW
FW3 1W(deer)
Gems mined, FW2 sheep Bombay works gems
FW4 1W road
T57
W5 1NW
FW2 past, Fw1 Sheep
Res 100%
T58
W5 Explore NW
Delhi finish Was, start FW (maybe should have done FW instead of war)
T59
Axe 1NW
Bolly(set),
FW3 1W Road,
TR to Bombay in.
T60
Hindu spreads to Bombay
T61
Res 70% Mono(1)
T62
Found Jud
-----------
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php?show=cond&difficulty=Emperor&pubID=149&mapSize=Standard&incBeta=0&speed=Normal&expansion=0&submit=Go
Not sure that link will work for you.
Heres the culture game
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=20282
Heres the AP game
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=18488
I think mason-mono first is best. if Judaism is founded before we finish those, then switch to PH and go back for mas>mono after writing.
Once you are happy with your micro, post a PPP and get a green. It sounds like everyone is on-board for the Oracle-theo shot and a culture VC. For now. Anybody can micro it and beat t70 should ask to adjust the PPP accordingly.
I am very glad to hear that HKJJ is alive and well! Psst...Dead brains are better than no brains!
Not sure that link will work for you.
Heres the culture game
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=20282
Heres the AP game
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=18488
I think mason-mono first is best. if Judaism is founded before we finish those, then switch to PH and go back for mas>mono after writing.
Once you are happy with your micro, post a PPP and get a green. It sounds like everyone is on-board for the Oracle-theo shot and a culture VC. For now. Anybody can micro it and beat t70 should ask to adjust the PPP accordingly.
I am very glad to hear that HKJJ is alive and well! Psst...Dead brains are better than no brains!
One other thing about the HoF... the quality of the top games can vary a lot, depending on who has tried to compete for that category. Looking at Immortal and Deity for the same conditions, the finish times are fairly constant. Probably means the best competition was at deity level, and emperor times could be beat.
In fact, as I recall, every time we have compared a sgotm to HoF scores, the sgotm finishes were a LOT faster. Got a lot more man-hours to spend on a sgotm than on a usual HoF game, I guess.
So we should aim our culture victory for 1400AD and figure out what we need to get that.
In fact, as I recall, every time we have compared a sgotm to HoF scores, the sgotm finishes were a LOT faster. Got a lot more man-hours to spend on a sgotm than on a usual HoF game, I guess.
So we should aim our culture victory for 1400AD and figure out what we need to get that.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Nice work, SH! I would go Masonry/Mono before PH--we'd like to found Judaism and switch into OrgRel ASAP--maybe that could be timed with the clever switch out of Slavery? That's really squeezing out the coins!
Another thing we could do, which I did not do in my test, is have Bombay start building Stonehenge--at least do it when Masonry is done for the +100% bonus. Henge should go any turn and we could certainly use the failure gold. I had to put the slider at intermediate values a couple times to complete techs at optimal times. Yes, the barb warrior is a wild card here--if we can kill him without losing any units then we should be in good shape, otherwise we'll have to spend hammers somewhere on a replacement warrior to fogbust.I did one more run that should be pretty close to what you're proposing (attached). Highlights are:
- Masonry (55), Mono (62), PH (66), Writing (70)
- Oracle (70) with only 1 chop---I timed a 1-pop settler build to get 56 overflow into the Oracle.
- @T70: Bolly pop 6, Delhi 4, Bombay 3, Vijay (SE of wheat) 1. All cities have +5 fpt. 1 beaker toward Fishing. +25 gpt @ 0% research, 39 bpt and -14 gpt @ 100%.
SteelHorse
Deity
Good work Xcal - that looks pretty optimal. Post your micro if it is not too much work. I am testing now. Not sure why the distance maint on the second city is 1.87 in the real game v 1.66 in the test. Something in BUFFY? I wouldn't have thought so. The difference is just great enough to cause a 1 gpt diff.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Hmm, the maintenance must be telling us something about the map type. It makes me worry if founding Bombay will also cost us more than expected. Between that and other things that can go wrong and change our plans, I'm only going to list my first 12 turns (thru getting Monotheism). In this plan I don't do any whipping until T63 so you could revolt out of Slavery if that saves gold.
T50: Bolly works the copper tile even though it isn't mined yet--city grows 1 turn faster. Bolly start barracks, Delhi continue FW.
51: Eastern FW moves to gold hill. Copper is now mined.
52: Delhi FW done, moves to gold hill, starts road. Other FW moves NW to GH and starts road. Delhi starts barracks. Bolly to pop 5. Copper FW stays and starts road.
Note: We'll need a warrior in Bolly by T57 when it reaches pop 6 for the happiness. FWIW, in the test game I moved the one that was on the forest near the barb, but you'll have to play it by ear, keeping our south fogbusted.
53: Found Bombay, work gems tile, start Stone Henge (or monument, or warrior, whatever seems like a good idea). Keep working the gems tile at all times.
54: The 2 eastern FWs move to the deer. Western FW moves NE and starts road.
55: Masonry done, start Monotheism. (I didn't record research slider, but I toggled 0/100% unless we needed something in between to finish a time-sensitive tech, such as Mono.)
All 3 FWs finish their roads, which connects copper and Delhi to Bolly.
Bolly finishes barracks, starts axe.
Delhi to pop 3, work farm.
56: Delhi border pops. Switch farm to corn.
Move 2 FWs on deer to the partial (2/4) mine NW of Bolly. Other FW (the western one) to Bolly corn, start road, cancel. (Just squeezing out a little work that doesn't delay him.)
57: Bolly to pop 6, adds the mine which has just been finished by the 2 FWs. Other FW moves W, starts road. We'll be connecting Bombay to Bolly by roading across the corner of the river. The axe should need 1 more hammer to complete, giving max overflow to starting a settler on the next turn.
58: Bolly finishes axe, starts settler. Send axe northish to clear the way to settle SE of the wheat. (In the test game he had to deal with two barb warriors.) 2 FWs on Bolly hill move 2SW and finish road. Other FW stays and finishes his road. Bombay now connected to Bolly by road/river.
59: The FW nearest to the pigs moves there, starts pasture. (In the test game I had him start a road, but Bombay won't grow to pop 2 until T64 so the single FW has time to finish the pasture by himself.) Other 2 FWs to gems, start mine.
60: Gems mine complete. Delhi to pop 4, change barracks (partial) to FW.
(Here my worker MM starts to diverge from my test game. Generally I started moving workers northish to build a road from Bolly up toward the wheat. By delaying whipping of the settler we get better timing for overflow into the Oracle, and save gold by delaying maintenance charges for the new city. To partially compensate, we build a road for the settler to quickly travel all the way to the wheat site and we will have a worker or two ready up there to farm the wheat.)
61: Continue pig pasture, other FWs build roads per above. I had to set research to 60% to finish Monotheism.
62: Monotheism done, start PH. Revolt to OrgRel (and back to Slavery if we had dropped it). Bolly should be 1 hammer short on finishing the settler. Switch to building a Hindu missionary (for whichever city founded Judaism).
The missionary will finish on T65 and then switch back to the settler. We'll 1-whip the settler that turn, giving us 56-hammer overflow into the Oracle on T66 (assuming we'll have finished teching PH on T66). On T63 we can 1-whip the Delhi FW into the partially built barracks, dropping the farm.
T50: Bolly works the copper tile even though it isn't mined yet--city grows 1 turn faster. Bolly start barracks, Delhi continue FW.
51: Eastern FW moves to gold hill. Copper is now mined.
52: Delhi FW done, moves to gold hill, starts road. Other FW moves NW to GH and starts road. Delhi starts barracks. Bolly to pop 5. Copper FW stays and starts road.
Note: We'll need a warrior in Bolly by T57 when it reaches pop 6 for the happiness. FWIW, in the test game I moved the one that was on the forest near the barb, but you'll have to play it by ear, keeping our south fogbusted.
53: Found Bombay, work gems tile, start Stone Henge (or monument, or warrior, whatever seems like a good idea). Keep working the gems tile at all times.
54: The 2 eastern FWs move to the deer. Western FW moves NE and starts road.
55: Masonry done, start Monotheism. (I didn't record research slider, but I toggled 0/100% unless we needed something in between to finish a time-sensitive tech, such as Mono.)
All 3 FWs finish their roads, which connects copper and Delhi to Bolly.
Bolly finishes barracks, starts axe.
Delhi to pop 3, work farm.
56: Delhi border pops. Switch farm to corn.
Move 2 FWs on deer to the partial (2/4) mine NW of Bolly. Other FW (the western one) to Bolly corn, start road, cancel. (Just squeezing out a little work that doesn't delay him.)
57: Bolly to pop 6, adds the mine which has just been finished by the 2 FWs. Other FW moves W, starts road. We'll be connecting Bombay to Bolly by roading across the corner of the river. The axe should need 1 more hammer to complete, giving max overflow to starting a settler on the next turn.
58: Bolly finishes axe, starts settler. Send axe northish to clear the way to settle SE of the wheat. (In the test game he had to deal with two barb warriors.) 2 FWs on Bolly hill move 2SW and finish road. Other FW stays and finishes his road. Bombay now connected to Bolly by road/river.
59: The FW nearest to the pigs moves there, starts pasture. (In the test game I had him start a road, but Bombay won't grow to pop 2 until T64 so the single FW has time to finish the pasture by himself.) Other 2 FWs to gems, start mine.
60: Gems mine complete. Delhi to pop 4, change barracks (partial) to FW.
(Here my worker MM starts to diverge from my test game. Generally I started moving workers northish to build a road from Bolly up toward the wheat. By delaying whipping of the settler we get better timing for overflow into the Oracle, and save gold by delaying maintenance charges for the new city. To partially compensate, we build a road for the settler to quickly travel all the way to the wheat site and we will have a worker or two ready up there to farm the wheat.)
61: Continue pig pasture, other FWs build roads per above. I had to set research to 60% to finish Monotheism.
62: Monotheism done, start PH. Revolt to OrgRel (and back to Slavery if we had dropped it). Bolly should be 1 hammer short on finishing the settler. Switch to building a Hindu missionary (for whichever city founded Judaism).
The missionary will finish on T65 and then switch back to the settler. We'll 1-whip the settler that turn, giving us 56-hammer overflow into the Oracle on T66 (assuming we'll have finished teching PH on T66). On T63 we can 1-whip the Delhi FW into the partially built barracks, dropping the farm.
SteelHorse
Deity
Here is a save getting writing in after T68. I mis-timed the chops to finish Oracle in time. Just need to finish Oracle at same time. Should save a turn even with the 1gpt difference. Lot of extra beakers at end. Out for dinner now. Will fix timing tonight and gett a PPP out. I left Slavery off and OR off until starting Oracle to save gpt.
I did play with Writing first, but in the end felt it was better to go Mason->Mono first.
EDIT: Thanks - will compare micros.
I did play with Writing first, but in the end felt it was better to go Mason->Mono first.
EDIT: Thanks - will compare micros.
Trystero
Deity
Great work SH and Xcal. The Masonry>Mono before PH plan looks good to me. Sorry I have nothing more substantive to add at this point, but it looks like you two have things figured out pretty well.
The Masonry>Mono before PH plan looks good to me. Sorry I have nothing more substantive to add at this point, but it looks like you two have things figured out pretty well.
I agree.Great work SH and Xcal.
SteelHorse
Deity
Please look over. Will incorporate improvements and play when green.
DRAFT PPP
Goal: Oracle into Theo. Should be around turn 69-70 or so. Mileage will vary based on city distance cost. Road for trade routes.
Tech: Masonry->Mono->PH->Writing
Stop: Any significant event (loss of Oracle, new AI, serious trouble)
Pause: Will pause after 10 turns and check save in for comments before proceeding
Options: Will look to switch out of slavery when it is safe.
Bolly: FW (2-pop whip), Warrior,
Dehli: Warrior (until pop 3), Switch to FW
Bombay: Monument
T50
Switch to Masonry, work copper instead of mine, build FW
Warrior moves (starting with east-most warrior) W1 to sheep, W2 1S, W3 F, W4 1W
Set 1W
T51
W1 into Delhi, W2 F, W3 1S (if barb moves west), W4 1W
Set 2W
FW1 3W,
Bolly 2 pop FW
T52
(check for slavery switch)
W1 F, W2 F, W3 1W, W4 1W
Set 1W
Bolly War(1), Delhi War(13) make sure working gold
Fw3(Dehli) 1NW Road, FW4(bolly) to gems, FW1 Copper, Fw2 to gems
T53
Found Bombay work gems
Res 0%
Bolly W5 1NW builds Axe
Dehli War (until pop 3), Bombay build SH
2FW on gems mine, FW on copper road
W3 SW, W4 S, W2 SW
T54
Gems Mined, Copper Roaded, FW3 1NW Road
Res 0%
W5 1NW (and continues NW)
T55
Masonry in, start Mono
W4 S, W* F
Delhi switch to Barracks
2FW on gems move 1E and road
FW 1NE (of copper) road
T56
W5 1NW
FW3 1W(deer)
Gems mined, FW2 sheep Bombay works gems
FW4 1W road
Res 0%
T57
Route to Bombay in - Hindu spreads to Bombay
FW2 past, Fw1 to 1NW of Bolly, FW3-4 to deer
Res 100%
T58
Deer road done
FW to 1NW Delhi - chop
T59
Axe 1NW
FW on Deer to 1NW bolly
TR to Bombay in.
T60
Mono in - Judiasm founded
Enter Worldbuilder put a barb warrior into an city building oracle
DRAFT PPP
Goal: Oracle into Theo. Should be around turn 69-70 or so. Mileage will vary based on city distance cost. Road for trade routes.
Tech: Masonry->Mono->PH->Writing
Stop: Any significant event (loss of Oracle, new AI, serious trouble)
Pause: Will pause after 10 turns and check save in for comments before proceeding
Options: Will look to switch out of slavery when it is safe.
Bolly: FW (2-pop whip), Warrior,
Dehli: Warrior (until pop 3), Switch to FW
Bombay: Monument
T50
Switch to Masonry, work copper instead of mine, build FW
Warrior moves (starting with east-most warrior) W1 to sheep, W2 1S, W3 F, W4 1W
Set 1W
T51
W1 into Delhi, W2 F, W3 1S (if barb moves west), W4 1W
Set 2W
FW1 3W,
Bolly 2 pop FW
T52
(check for slavery switch)
W1 F, W2 F, W3 1W, W4 1W
Set 1W
Bolly War(1), Delhi War(13) make sure working gold
Fw3(Dehli) 1NW Road, FW4(bolly) to gems, FW1 Copper, Fw2 to gems
T53
Found Bombay work gems
Res 0%
Bolly W5 1NW builds Axe
Dehli War (until pop 3), Bombay build SH
2FW on gems mine, FW on copper road
W3 SW, W4 S, W2 SW
T54
Gems Mined, Copper Roaded, FW3 1NW Road
Res 0%
W5 1NW (and continues NW)
T55
Masonry in, start Mono
W4 S, W* F
Delhi switch to Barracks
2FW on gems move 1E and road
FW 1NE (of copper) road
T56
W5 1NW
FW3 1W(deer)
Gems mined, FW2 sheep Bombay works gems
FW4 1W road
Res 0%
T57
Route to Bombay in - Hindu spreads to Bombay
FW2 past, Fw1 to 1NW of Bolly, FW3-4 to deer
Res 100%
T58
Deer road done
FW to 1NW Delhi - chop
T59
Axe 1NW
FW on Deer to 1NW bolly
TR to Bombay in.
T60
Mono in - Judiasm founded
Enter Worldbuilder put a barb warrior into an city building oracle
Trystero
Deity
Looks good. Green from me.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
I opened your save from T69 but haven't tried playing according to your PPP. In the save I noticed you end with what would be -5 gold in the bank if the extra 1gpt is taken into account. Is that OK? And Oracle wouldn't complete until T71--do you have that worked out yet? 2 warriors are sufficient to fogbust the south. My test had a lot more roads done, the partial mine near Bolly was finished, I only had to chop 1 forest for the Oracle instead of two, Vijay was founded up by the wheat (blocking Hammy and poised for fast growth, unlike the deer/gold location), Bolly/Delhi were pop 6/4 vs your 4/5, and I had a missionary to spread Hinduism for the OrgRel bonus and to enable temple building. If I'd used your clever ploy of switching out of Slavery and delaying OrgRel to save money my save would be in even better shape. (Maybe I should try again for a more direct comparison...)
But, if your PPP's financial accounting matches the real game, you get Monotheism 2 turns earlier, which could be a big deal. I'd guess a key factor in that is that you "waste" worker turns in mere movement to get their butts over to the gems faster so we get that juicy tile 4 turns faster--nice. (I tend to overvalue efficient use of worker turns rather than getting the most important stuff done ASAP.)
I'll try to improve what I did but assuming we go with SH's plan the only suggestions I have are:
But, if your PPP's financial accounting matches the real game, you get Monotheism 2 turns earlier, which could be a big deal. I'd guess a key factor in that is that you "waste" worker turns in mere movement to get their butts over to the gems faster so we get that juicy tile 4 turns faster--nice.
(I tend to overvalue efficient use of worker turns rather than getting the most important stuff done ASAP.)I'll try to improve what I did but assuming we go with SH's plan the only suggestions I have are:
- Only 2 units are needed for southern fogbusting--might save a bit on out-of-culture unit maintenance and/or free up a unit for better use elsewhere.
- I'd have Bombay put some hammers toward Stonehenge for failure gold, at least once we get Masonry for the stone bonus. There's no big rush for a culture pop there and a temple would be more useful--we're also likely to have Judiasm founded there.
- In T53 you set the slider to 20% to finish Masonry. I'd put it at 0% to avoid rounding-waste. There's no rush to get Masonry, unlike Mono (to found Judaism), or PH (to start the Oracle), or Writing (to finish the Oracle).
- If it matters to what you do through your pause point, we should decide where to settle Vijay. We can settle faster at the nearby deer/gold location (although I might suggest 1E of what you used), but settling farther to the NW near the wheat blocks Hammy better and the city will have a lot more immediate food (since we need AH and a border pop to get the deer in the more southerly location).
- Are you sure you can finish Writing (with the extra 1 gpt cost) and Oracle on T70?
High King J.J.
Prince
Just a random thought from a dead brain, what if the map has toroidal wrap? That's one thing I remember causing higher city distance maintenance costs. Somebody else know what other map things cause similar effects?
PPP looks
= green to me.
SteelHorse
Deity
There were a lot of carryover of beakers at the end. Was just a little lazy and tired last night. But to get the Oracle in one turn, I think will require more than one chop.
The idea was to get the gems online ASAP to help with tech. Also need to keep an eye on Delhi tiles worked.But, if your PPP's financial accounting matches the real game, you get Monotheism 2 turns earlier, which could be a big deal. I'd guess a key factor in that is that you "waste" worker turns in mere movement to get their butts over to the gems faster so we get that juicy tile 4 turns faster--nice.
Does that also fog bust for barb galleys? If so, let me know which tiles to use. I wanted to protect the southern coast.
I like it. I had tested in the test game and actually got the failure gold which threw everything off.
Fair enough.
That was the point. Lots of small (or big) things could happen that could change the situation. I know you had moved Vijay up further north. I was thinking getting the gold online sooner my be a benefit. Wanted to defer discussion.
I will play out the 10 turns in the test game and post.
Great input
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