SGOTM 15 - Plastic Ducks

soundjata · Apr 10, 2012

OK I also believe a CH is more important in Satsuma than a temple.

IEdit: If I count right, Tokyo BFC contains 6 forests (ordered from more hammer yield to less):
- 2E, 2E1S of Tokyo (best hammer for Satsuma)
- 1E2S of Tokyo (some hammers for Satsuma)
- 2N1E of Kyoto (low hammer for Kyoto) > must be chopped AFTER Tokyo gift
- 2S of Tokyo (low hammer for Kyoto or Satsuma) > dito
- 2N of Tokyo (neglectible hammer yield)

So I will follow this order and see what I can do (forest #6 will be ignored)

soundjata · Apr 11, 2012

Report on turn 119.

Tokyo has been pacified and costs 7gold in maintenance.
We can decide to gift it this turn?

Our scout revealed a land path toward Shaka. :clap:

It would take 12 turns for a 1 mover to go from Patali to Shaka's land.

Our workers pre-chopped relentlessly.

A HM from Delhi is in Kyoto now, he should scout/infect Hatty's land.

Agra
Cruising. Can whip forge next turn?

Bombay
I decided to chop south forest into the CH.
We might want to micro differently in order to 1. finish the barracks and 2. whip the CH at size 7~8.

Patali
Spat a HM this turn. Aiming to infect... Babylon? (on the way already)
Building a settler in 5 turns.

Varanasi
Growing on a farm. Building a CH. Can whip it at size 8.

Vija
Building a Treb, stagnating. We have 8 trebs, 4 Xbows, 3 Pikes, 7 axes atm (I don't count the island fog buster)

Osaka
Growing with 8F surplus building a CH and working farms and a hamlet.

Kyoto
Building a Forge and waiting for border popping in 4t.

Tokyo
Building an archer that could be whipped next turn.

I kept a medic axe on fog busting duty south of Tokyo, IDK.

Schwegadon and Colossus built this turn. The Colossus @ Genghis' :yumyum:

Be nice and build the GLH as well Khan!

I failed to push further Kossin's scouting Xbow :blush:

Kyoto lacks MP (not that urgent). Osaka could cold-build an archer after CH whippage.

Game paused. Save uploaded.

Game log

Spoiler :

To give or not to give :confused:

Edit: I vote give btw, we have enough gold for a 100% spy slider now. Our army is willing to move north.

Duckweed · Apr 11, 2012

Hmm, I'm wondering whether you read post #563 by kossin, which very clearly explained why we want/have to(THE ONLY CHOICE) to gift Tokyo in T120. If we gift this turn T119, then we won't have the 50% culture bonus, the mission cost would be ~360, we can't afford this turn.

So lift the EPP slider to 30% this turn, which will make the total EPP 180+ (we will also have 10% stationary bonus).

Let the medicI axe pillage the PH copper tile, it can't be worked by Kyoto.

Next turn, be sure that you move all the military units to 2E of Tokyo before gifting, (otherwise they might be thrown to a unfavorable position), also move 1 spy 1 tile forward before switching their religion.

Note there's no road between the rice and cow tile, so we need to have 2 workers ready on T121 to road there.

Bebekija · Apr 11, 2012

^^ (EDIT : Xpost with Duckweed, and I forgot about the stationary bonus, so his numbers are right)
We still don't have any culture in this city as it just got out of revolt this turn, so if we gift it now, we won't have the 50% culture bonus on espionage.

Given the post on the previous page by kossin, then the cost of the mission would be ~400EP. Even a turn @100% can't give us that much, so we have to wait until next turn for our culture to "register", then we can give it.

The mission will cost ~200EP with the culture bonus, so turn up the slider just as much as needed to reach this number.

soundjata · Apr 11, 2012

very cool

glad you're here guys!

So burning 50% slider now for safety (200+ EP next turn) and playing.

edit: success at a cost of 170 EP... wasted 35 gold still better safe than sorry

.

I'll finish the turn then report and go to bed.

soundjata · Apr 11, 2012

So Tokyo was given to Hatty who shall be willing to OB next turn.
(she's pleased and our worse enemy this turn)

We'll be ready to road next turn between rice and cow for faster movement.

Another GS was born in Delhi (great luck on the probs so far)

Bad news: Hammy is settling our island spot next turn :cry:

Spoiler :

I had noticed the inc. galley but failed to report it. Sorry for that. Is there something we could have done to avoid this discomfiture?
Hammy might be kind enough to give us the city IDK.

I haven't whipped anything this turn.
Agra can grow 1 more pop (3 turns) before the Forge whip
Bombay I think slowbuild the CH with a chop next turn or whip next turn before the chop?
Patali should stop the settler or do we want to use it somewhere else?
Note we can work an extra mine here now.
Osaka will 2 pop whip in a few turns or better chop the CH.

One last question: a couple of trebs are badly wounded. (2HP and 1.6HP) We can give them a promotion (either CRII or bombard) to speed the healing. Advice?

Note Delhi is slowly (8 turns) growing into unhappiness working all mines.

Save uploaded.

Log:

Spoiler :

EDIT: we can also trade with Hatty next turn:
- Monarchy for Aestetics + Poly maybe?
- Horse and ivory, though we probably can't afford it. We could fish our fish for what it's worth...

kossin · Apr 11, 2012

Great news on success to Hatty! :goodjob:

Will look at the save and edit comments later.

Duckweed · Apr 11, 2012

soundjata said:
Another GS was born in Delhi (great luck on the probs so far)

, remember it's 93% odd, not 39%.

Bad news: Hammy is settling our island spot next turn

Spoiler :

I had noticed the inc. galley but failed to report it. Sorry for that. Is there something we could have done to avoid this discomfiture?

We will be losing quite a lot of commerce in late stage, although not a huge deal for now. Just whip the settler this turn and send it to settle on the BANANA. In the same time, let the FW around Bomaby road 2E tile so that the settler can settle 1 turn faster and save the forest to the new city.

Hammy might be kind enough to give us the city IDK.

Try to wave your magic wand!

I haven't whipped anything this turn.
Agra can grow 1 more pop (3 turns) before the Forge whip
Bombay I think slowbuild the CH with a chop next turn or whip next turn before the chop?

when it grows

Patali should stop the settler or do we want to use it somewhere else?
Note we can work an extra mine here now.

See above suggestion.

Osaka will 2 pop whip in a few turns or better chop the CH.

Whip it this turn is fine since you only whip away pop on mediocre tiles -- farms and mines

One last question: a couple of trebs are badly wounded. (2HP and 1.6HP) We can give them a promotion (either CRII or bombard) to speed the healing. Advice?

Your unit movement are not optimal. Those wounded units should stay in place on T114 to heal. Also it's better if you had moved the units S and SW of Tokyo before gifting. For now, just leave the promotion since they won't have time to heal.

Note Delhi is slowly (8 turns) growing into unhappiness working all mines.

Why remove the farm? we will get Monarchy for extra happiness. I'm not sure why you traded away our only sheep instead of the extra gold to Hammy.

EDIT: we can also trade with Hatty next turn:
- Monarchy for Aestetics + Poly maybe?
- Horse and ivory, though we probably can't afford it. We could fish our fish for what it's worth...

Leave the diplomacy next turn. There are some issues to be examined and discussed next. I'm thinking about DOWing GK immediately and bribe Hatty into war to absorb some forces before we arrive.
Edit: This is a great idea! DOW GK this turn and bribe Hatty to join with probably Machinery. Hatty will then agree to OB immediately, speed up our military advancement by 1 turn (Because our SOD dare not enter GK's land without the protection of pikes, so the position of pike determine the marching of SOD)

Edit2: Another very important thing comes to mind -- When the AP election pops, always choose to vote for the one who DID NOT build the AP, the +2 voting bonus will enable us OB with him without switching his religion. Press F9 in the very beginning of the turn will bring up the wonder window and let you identify who is the AP builder.

I'll have quite some free time for a while, if you don't mind, allow me to take over the game this weekend.

kossin · Apr 11, 2012

Sounds good. My memory may be fuzzy but I believe the AP/UN owner is always on top of the list.

Duckweed · Apr 11, 2012

Not sure, but this is an extremely important move, we could get 1 or even 2 more AI friends (if the choice is the AI team) through this cheap vote. :lol:

So better to make it safe.

@soundjata

Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any question about this. Another indication is to see who is the Buddhism shrine owner, who should be the AP builder. The safest operation is still pressing F9 in the very beginning of every turn to find out who is the builder.

soundjata · Apr 11, 2012

Yes a question:

You want to DOW GK so it means you assume he is bordering Hatty to the north.
Do we have clear indication this is true apart from mere intuition?

What if... Let's say there is another AI (IDK Lizagawa) blocking the way to Khan?

Also... Are you sure bribing Hatty into a war with GK will cancel her "worse enemy" attitude towards us this turn?

Duckweed · Apr 11, 2012

soundjata said:
Yes a question:

You want to DOW GK so it means you assume he is bordering Hatty to the north.
Do we have clear indication this is true apart from mere intuition?

What if... Let's say there is another AI (IDK Lizagawa) blocking the way to Khan?

Also... Are you sure bribing Hatty into a war with GK will cancel her "worse enemy" attitude towards us this turn?

Yes. I do see a clear indication

If you open the diplomatic screen, Hatty is willing to DOW GK, which means GK is his land target (bordering) since Toku's distance DOW cap is very low.

To your 2nd question, the answer is still YES. Edit: It's only good to DOW as early as possible because the longer Hatty shares war with us, the more we gain the positive diplomatic bonus.

When I post something, I will usually clearly indicate whether I'm sure or not sure about a statement.

For instance, I'm not sure what kossin said about the AP vote above, and kossin said that he also not sure.

I'm sure that the EP cost of switching Hatty's religion is ~180, therefore I told you that we only need 30% EP slider.

Edit: Are you clearly understand how to identify the AP builder as the wrong move is going to cost us dozens of turns!

soundjata · Apr 11, 2012

Hello No I am not clear :blush:

I understand you want me to press F9 as soon as a new turn begins.
What if The AP was built by an AI we haven't met yet ? Are we even going to participate to the vote in that case?

Duckweed · Apr 11, 2012

As long as the AP is Buddhism, it will force everyone with Buddhism cities to meet together. So the important thing is that you need to press F9 before the AP voting window pops since you can't do it at that time.

soundjata · Apr 12, 2012

All clear F9 FTW!

soundjata · Apr 12, 2012

OK played the turn where all happened.

Duckweed you have a freaking crystal bowl :eek:

Dowed Genghis on turn 120 and bribed Hatty at the cost of Machinery + Poly.
Adjusted the micro as advised.

Turn 121 the AP election comes in and I vote for the team Mansa+Huayana. (first of the list :lol:

)

Spoiler :

Liz is the AP owner (I knew it of course due to the power of F9) and London is an absolutely juicy city.

Spoiler :

Met Liz; Mansa/Huayana team and Cyrus.
Hatty is at war with Cyrus + Liz on top of Genghis.

Spoiler :

Could be the result of a bribe (drama/calendar?)

Played minimally on turn 121:
- Roaded between rice and cow.
- Moved the spy further into Hatty's land.
- Reassigned the Bombay worker to roading duties.

Hatty is willing to trade Monarchy for Aesthetics+Monotheism.

City builds are the result of my frivolous inspiration.
All military are ready to move.
A scout from Genghis is around Tokyo.
A scouting HM from us is 1 tile ahead of our army.

Save uploaded.
Game log:

Spoiler :

I am leaving the player's chair for now. :hatsoff:

soundjata · Apr 12, 2012

Further thoughts.

Our city count = 9
Our friends = 9+8 = 17
Total is 26

"enemy" city count = 46 cities.
Total is 72.

Assuming we don't make more friends, we need to control 90% of the total population to win the AP, that's around 61 cities.
35 cities to :hammer:

then!

Would be faster ofc. if we could make more friends

The team Hyena + Mansa comes to mind.

Where are you Ragnar :confused:

Duckweed · Apr 12, 2012

soundjata said:
Duckweed you have a freaking crystal bowl

I ran quite a few tests yesterday for some issues I have been wondering for quite a while. Still not enough compared with OSS, who figured out the religion trick in the beginning.

Met Liz; Mansa/Huayana team and Cyrus.
Hatty is at war with Cyrus + Liz on top of Genghis.

Spoiler :

Could be the result of a bribe (drama/calendar?)

Clearly GK bribed them with Drama

Hatty is willing to trade Monarchy for Aesthetics+Monotheism.

Go for the deal.

A scout from Genghis is around Tokyo.

Delete it.

A scouting HM from us is 1 tile ahead of our army.

Let it go north.

A great news, guys, it sounds that the AP owner -- Liz locates in the same continent with us, and Cyrus as well since GK was able to bribe them join the war immediately. Therefore, we don't need Astronomy, at most, we only need Optics to transport HMs to switch our new friend -- the AI team. We can bulb Compass and Optics now and send out caravels to scout the map immediately.

It's sad that we already miss the music GA!

@soundjata

Could you carry the game for a few more turns till the weekend?

There are a lot of diplomatic actions needed this turn.

1. We need to gift MC to Mansa, Machinery to HC, OB with them, and then bribe them to DOW GK with Engineering
2. We also need to bribe Hammy into war with MC+CoL+poly

City build

Pat -- a pike
Delhi -- an archer
Osaka -- Barrack

Bebekija · Apr 12, 2012

^^

Very good work ,this is getting really interesting.

I don't have time to say much more, even though I'd want to, cause I'm swarmed at work, but keep up the good work !!

soundjata · Apr 12, 2012

I can play some more if you insist :cool:

What do we want to research now that music is out?
Do we go for it for the sake of building culture?

SGOTM 15 - Plastic Ducks

everything

everything

Deity

King

everything

everything

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

everything

Deity

everything

Deity

everything

everything

everything

Deity

King

everything

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