ST1 - Heart and Seoul

IT 550BC: With mapmaking on the horizon, I plan for a suicide galley move. We cannot wait for navigation to make contact with other civs. I also intend to grab green dot, while we still can. I do not believe the flip threat is as high as mentioned. The city will be much closer to our capital than theirs. Half a dozen garrison ought to be enough. Maybe eight to be safe.

530BC: Mapmaking comes in. I trade our map plus 1gpt and change for their map. Yikes, Spain has a very small island. We could already see almost the whole thing. I drop to all cash.

510BC: Establish embassy in Madrid. LOOK at that garrison!

st1-510bc.jpg


No barracks, all of them regulars. :smoke: [pimp]

No horses for poor Izzy! She has a lot of swords, though. Could get sticky if she comes right after us. I sign RoP, in which she pays us 11g. Our first galley, out of the capital, heads west toward Spanish waters.

There are four potential sites for suicide galleys. The most promising looking at the moment is to the west, where there are seas off Spain's coast. Another good one is to our southeast. Seas there, too. Due south there is ocean, but could be a shot to cross a short distance. Then in the northeast, the least promising looking spot. I will try at least one galley in each direction, depending on what we find. Looking for AI's, but we could also find islands.


Middle Turns: found the last two cities on our homeland. I start piling MP into Green Dot. I build two more galleys, then start on the FP at PyongYang, where we could leave the FP and eventually move the palace with a leader if we make gains in war. And if we don't make any such gains, or only do it late, better to have had our FP the whole time.

The last forest is chopped at the capital, no BG underneath. The capital starts on harbor, to be completed by the end of my round. Other sites that could have done harbors either got granaries or built regular galleys for the pig runs. (Sooey sooey!)


390BC: Our first pig drowns. Oops. :o

st1-390bc.jpg


Nothing promising off the west coast of Spain after all. Another galley heads out of Pyong toward the southeast, and one is heading south. Um... that's it for now. I do not have a fourth ship in the works yet. Most sites are doing temples.

370BC: Our second little piggy is attacked by wolves! Two barb galleys swoop out of the fog in the east. This is good news! Barbs do not appear on uninhabited landmasses. There be AI's nearby! Our galley fends off both units and promotes to vet, with 2hp left. After beating off the dogs, our little sooey ventures out of the farmyard and spots an island just across the way.

350BC: Jackpot!

st1-350bc.jpg


Egyptians. I swap Pyong from FP to settler. Can return to FP afterward. No other good settler candidates. Our wounded galley sails on and finds Persians. We must hurry if we are to claim some of this unsettled land. It could be an island. If we have the chance, here are my early suggestions.

st1-350bc-dotmap.jpg


Pink is a definite. Red, white or blue depend on other factors. That barb camp should be gone next turn. These AI's have contact with the rest of the world. (Only 14 total civs, as I must have goofed and had two slots empty somehow).

Some civs will buy contact with us. WAIT FOR THAT before doing trades.

Gris will get the honor/duty of the massive trade attempt. We have two resources for trade: map info and contact with Spain. We prefer to sell to as many buyers at one time as possible, so hold your fire until you seen the whites of their eyes. If we have horses, we could also try to trade those to Spain for some of her furs, which are otherwise too pricey.

I held off on the whip. I only whipped one town. Some of the more corrupt towns should be whipped, though, when they come ripe. Especially whippings that bring libraries in soon.

WE WANT LIBRARIES! Lots of em, asap. Prioritize Literature, the Wheel, Iron Working and Code of Laws, in that order, and then probably go for a govt swap after those are in hand. Almost every city could be swapped to library immediately. Only those already over 40 shields should continue on toward temples.

I spent a fair chunk of our savings on two embassies. We have over 40gpt in income, and at last civ that should buy a couple of techs. You can divert off the beaten path if you find broker opportunities, but the AI's are mostly if not wholly already in the middle ages. Um... SunTzu is due in 13 turns or less!

st1-persep.jpg


st1-thebes.jpg


We might squeeze Spain for more RoP change eventually.

Gris, you are cursed to live in interesting times.


ST1 - 350BC


- Sirian


EDIT: Upload Folder 5 now, I see. :crazyeye:
 
We should know everyone soon, good job.

Sirian, I have just a few questions regarding our immediate future.

- Looking at your screen shot, you (we) were researching Literature (probably with a lonely scientist - 60t), since we are so behind, there is no way we gonna get it before buying it (especially since you recommand buying this tech first), so shouldn't we just have an absolut 0 research and save every specialist needed for money collecting (I am pretty sure having 10 breakers into a hundreds breakers tech is not gonna reduce its price by more that 1 or 2 gold).

- Why do you want library instead of temple, we are not going to research anything soon (or I am completly wrong) while 1 content citizen will make a difference in lots of towns.

- Culture could be the main reason (cheapest culture per shield invested) but why now, is it just to 'secure' our city facing Spain (or the future ones in the new discovered island).

Jabah
 
Culture has many uses. One is reducing flip chances. Another is reducing resistance and speeding the end of resistance. Another is stronger diplomatic and trade standing. Taking the time to build early culture is off the table for early military aggression, yet it is a huge boon to late industrial and modern age warfare.

What use is being scientific if we do not prioritize the cheap culture? The time to build cheap cultural buildings is as soon as possible, for the most 1000-yr benefit and improved respect from the AI's. Culture is the one thing that cannot wait, if it is in the gameplan at all. We can use it, whether we are going for a launch or military.

Surely the temples can wait a little longer. :) It's not as if we are going to try to steamroll Spain. You saw their garrison size, right? :)


- Sirian
 
I've been playing this afternoon, but there's been enough interruptions that I might not get to finish up until later tonight. :(

Now, back to looking for the whites of those eyes! :scan:

-Griselda
 
Early- Built a spear in Cheju, which went to Pyongyang. Pyongyang built the settler, and sent that along with its original spear to pink dot. Built a spear out of Seoul also, when the galley was complete, and out of Wonsan after the barracks. Egypt was fighting someone near pink dot, but it could have just been barbs.

On the contact front, India bought our contact after the inherited turn, but nobody else did. I established an embassy with India, but did not trade.

st1-india.jpg


I was nervous each turn that somebody would demand contact and the gig would be up. Persia's galley went north away from ours, and I lost track of it. It was only a matter of time until they met Spain over there. I waited until turn 5, but then I felt that I needed to go ahead and trade before we lost the contact monopoly. I settled pink dot, Chinje, right before trading, on the off chance that I could see a non-barb opponent over there.


Psst! Hey you, want to make a deal? :groucho:

It didn't seem like we had much to go on with so few contacts, but I did my best.

- Contact with Carthage from India for contact with Spain, WM, and 39 gold.
- Contact with Greece from Carthage for contact with Spain, WM, and 25 gold.
- Contact with Rome from Greece for contact with Spain and WM.
- Contact with China from Rome for contact with Spain, WM.
- Contact with Zulu + 5 gold from China for contact with Spain, WM.
- Contact with Mongols +15 gold from Zulu for contact with Spain, WM.
- Contact with Babs + 10 gold from Persia for contact with Spain, WM.
- Contact with Japan + 15 gold from Babs for WM.

Whew! We know everyone, but most everyone knows Spain and has our WM. I looked into buying/brokering world maps, but that would have taken literally everything else that we had (contact, WM, all our gold and gpt), and I felt like I could better use the cash to sweeten the last few contact deals we could make for tech.

- Buy Literature from Egypt for contact with Spain, WM, 60 gold.
- Sell Literature and WM to Spain for the Wheel, Warrior Code, and 4 gold.

* We have two horses hooked up already! :D

- Buy Iron Working from Mongols for contact with Spain, WM, and 60 gold.

* We have iron hooked up also.

- Buy Code of Laws from Babs for contact with Spain, 185 gold, and 5 gpt.
- Code of Laws to Spain for Horseback Riding.
- Masonry from Japan for Contact with Spain and WM.
- Philosophy from India for 9 gpt.
- Furs from Spain for horses and Masonry.

Governments:
Republic- India, Mongols, Babylon, Persia, Egypt, Carthage.

Despotism- Japan, Zulu, Rome, Greece, Spain.

Anarchy- China (does NOT have republic, most likely going to monarchy)

So, I think we're not as far behind as it might have seemed.

With the furs, lux can go to 10%.

I wonder if we'd be able to get to republic before all of the AI do. I suspect that we'll never be able to afford a government tech, and that we can't afford to wait 60 turns for it. So, I turn research to 40%, and turn any taxmen to scientists. Republic is due in 37 turns, and we're running a small surplus.

We really lack map information, sorry if that was [pimp] . Also, most of the AI doesn't like us much, but we have no money for embassies and I traded mostly at miser. I felt like we needed to do that for this round anyway.

With all that excitement, I forget to check for cities to swap to libarary until the next turn. I swap a bunch of cities on turn 6.

Late- Some AI start Sistine and Leo's.

I get a worker and warrior scout over to Chinje. Egypt has settled where our white dot was (New Thebes :eek: ), but there is a promising spot on fresh water and with bg tiles just NE of Chinje. I have a settler/spear on their way, and a galley heading to meet them.

I didn't scout as much as I could have, sorry. Now, it looks like we may need ROP with Egypt to get anywhere. Of course, at some point we'll hopefully be buying maps.

Oh, I took a look at AI resources:
Greece lacks iron and horses.
Rome lacks iron :lol:
Babs lack iron

We have a trade route to India, the lighthouse owners, even though they're on the other side of the world.

I built a whole lot of libraries and temples, and started a few courthouses. We're also 20 turns, IIRC, from completing the FP in Pyongyang.

In Tagwu, our green dot city, I was able to send another MP warrior (sent from a city that got a spear), and whipped a library. I think it just expanded its borders, and Spain's nearby city hasn't.

On the diplomatic front, Spain demanded philosophy and got it :( Zululand got republic and revolted. Oh, and China declared war on the Indians.

The Mongols completed Sun Tzu'a in 170 BC, and Persia and Carthage swapped to Leo's and Sistine. Others might be in the cascade, but might not have to switch until this coming turn.

Seoul and Namp'o have grown, and are both running scientists. It may be a good idea to turn up lux, but I held off a bit, waiting for Pyongyang and Pusan to grow as well.

Spain has mysticism now, so if we trade for any tech we could probably pick that one up. We're past Spain in histogram now, FWIW.

India has silks available for trade, although we can't afford them.

Four civs still lack republic, which is due in 25. That may have been a long shot, but at least we'll get a new government out of it.

We still lack maps, embassies, and good relations.

Good luck!

Heart, body, and Seoul, you've got to give
 
Looks nice Gris. Would anyone have a problem ditching the Republic research and picking up the remaining Ancient Era techs at a 4-7 turn research, and then being in a position to trade our free tech for the Republic to one of the stragglers? It's a bit risky, but I'd like to take advantage of our trait. Since this is such a bold move, I will wait to play for approval/disapproval. In 25 turns we'll have Republic, yes, but we'll be way behind overall.
 
There should be no need to kill the Republic research. Drop to all cash, leaving the Republic investment intact. Otherwise you may waste five turns worth of commerce, if the trade you envision does not materialize or requires additional payment. We would want to get as much as possible out of the free tech, meaning trading first for other techs in that era if possible.

Cash costs 75% of what it does to self-research, except when buying from someone who holds a monopoly. Why would we kill a research investment to conduct our own research on obsolete tech? Even with the libraries and no markets, the cash would be more versatile, and it would not kill the research already spent, which DOES apply to trade pricing.

Gris, your Republic move might be good if this were a smaller map or we were not scientific. :) Sounds like you did a good job overall, though. Better safe than sorry! And we did a lot of catching up.


- Sirian
 
Cash costs 75% of what it does to self-research, except when buying from someone who holds a monopoly.

One nit - that doesn't include the cash multiplier applied to buying "important" advances, which is all the governmental techs and Nationalism. The research cost for Republic is usually quite close to the buy cost. But saving to buy it is still a good idea, because cash is of course more versatile, and you can get the tech sooner (both to use and to resell) by buying it with future gold income instead of present beakers.
 
I agree that we should try to be in the Middle Ages asap to see what free tech we got and with luck (ie we are not to backward) try to convert that one into several other techs .

Republic might even be one of those if enough Civs know it and we get an relatively unknown free tech.

On the other hand, all AIs but Spain might know our free tech and Spain will 'demand' it.

Regarding Spain demands, are we in a position to refuse and face the consequences. If they are behind us both in tech and points, they should not be able to get someone to fight for them and we should be able to defend ourself and even attack?

Jabah
 
Originally posted by T-hawk
Cash costs 75% of what it does to self-research, except when buying from someone who holds a monopoly.

One nit - that doesn't include the cash multiplier applied to buying "important" advances, which is all the governmental techs and Nationalism. The research cost for Republic is usually quite close to the buy cost. But saving to buy it is still a good idea, because cash is of course more versatile, and you can get the tech sooner (both to use and to resell) by buying it with future gold income instead of present beakers.

I think you are right and AFAIK you also have a multiplier for the 'ressources' tech (Iron/Horse...).

Jabah
 
The short, short version: We are two techs into the Medieval Age. We have a full World Map. The year is still 150BC. :confused:? Read on.

Most of the AI is up Feudalism (Sun Tzu), Monotheism, Theology (Sistine), Engineering, and Invention (Leonardo), as well as the rest of the Ancient Age techs that we lack, Math, Currency, Construction, Mysticism, and Polytheism. I nix research on the Republic and change our few scientists to taxmen.

I buy Math from India for 10gpt and 21 gold. Math then goes to Spain for Mysticism, her TM and 4 gold.

The relatively backward Civs are:
Greece- Up Poly and Construction, but no Republic
Spain- Behind us by Math
Rome- Into next age, but no Republic
Japan- Up Poly and Construction, but no Republic

I buy Currency from India for 25gpt and 19 gold (this was 1gpt cheaper than Carthage). Currency to Greece for Polytheism and 9 gold. This leaves us short of the Medieval Age by only Construction, which Japan has, while lacking Currency. I trade around our WM and net around 40 gold. I am able to scrape together enough cash to buy Construction for Curency 13gpt, and 45 gold, by hiring a few tax collectors in corrupt towns (which are not even starving). This gets us into the Medieval Age and we draw Monotheism as our freebie. And wouldn't you know it, several Civs do not have it.

Babylon- Up Republic, Monarchy, Feudalism, 9 gold
China- Up Republic, Monarchy, 0 gold
Zululand- Up Republic, Monarchy, 0 gold
Rome- 168 gold
Greece- Feudalism, 0 gold
Spain- left in the dust

Wow, Poly, Currency, and Construction are not enough to get Spain's WM. :smoke:

Ok, here goes...Monotheism to Rome for 168gold and his TM. Monotheism and 21 gold to Greece for Feudalism. Poly, Currency, Construction, and our WM to Spain for their WM. Monotheism, Feudalism, and our WM to Zululand for the Republic and his WM. Monotheism to China for Monarchy.

(I also do a ton of WM trades to get us tons of money and a sweet map)

Recap: We get 9 techs, trade away our entire income, but fill our treasury with 283 gold and have a full World Map. And it's still 150BC!

This took me two hours to play, and I have to go to bed now, and am going away for the weekend, so as for my turns.:blush: Have fun Jabah.

I have changed nothing (but turning off the music), though I suggest a Marketplace in Seoul, and we should definitely revolt to Republic soon (right now?) and start on aqueducts and irrigation.

I have not pursued any further trades because we will need the treasury to survive our transition to Republic. Chivalry is out there and might not be known by all, but I doubt it will be enough to broker for Engineering or Theology.

This was possibly my best ever turn and uh, I didn't even do anything.:crazyeye:

ST1-150BC.jpg


ST1 - 150BC (Still)
 
Now you can see how poor Spain got gipped. I hope there are more islands under the fog! :)

- Sirian
 
I got bored at work so I put a legend on the minimap for us lurkers:
ST1-150BC-Map.jpg

Really nice trading Speaker!:goodjob:

EDIT: All of the light grey area in India are the mountains to which Speaker refers.

EDIT 2: That will be fun for the Mongolian UU.
 
ST1

150(0)
Only 5 civ (India, Mongol, Persia, Egypt & Carthage) have the 3 upper visible tech (Engi, Theo & Chiv), the other civ are either at our level (Zulu) or behind.

We are paying 63gpt to other civs (for at least 15t for most of them), losing money.
We should revolt asap.

I change the cities with culture to marketplace (Seoul, Pusan, Wonsan & Namp'o), whip 2 libraries in the south.
And revolt ->4t, reorganize the unhappy, we are now losing 47gpt while in anarchy.

IBT Persopolis ->Leonardo

130(1) an egyptian settling pair is coming toward the spot we want..

110(2)
IBT Egypt : New Elephantine-on-the-lake

90BC(3) the Mongol will beat us by 1t to the other site (done)

st1-booo-cities.jpg


There is now no more city place free except at the other end of the world.

IBT Pyongyang grows and riots

70BC(4) We are in Republic now.
Have tax at 20% so most citizen are working, we are still losing money (-4gpt) because of 57 units.
Marketplaces are needed and coming

50BC(5) China has Chivalry, but I wait for more to trade (anyway we can't buy anything).

30BC(6)
Buy and Trade WMap
Sell Monarchy to Japan for 80g.

I set the option on 'always renegociate deals', tell me if this is a NO in SG. but with 14 civ I don't want to check every turn that we are not giving almost free stuffs to others. (BTW I am the only one whose F2 screen is not showing everyone because the scroll down is not working properly -> have to go to the F4 screen).

10BC(7)
Buy a library in Chinje for around 120g (we will need serious culture there to have and keep the game)

IBT Utica (carthage)-> Sistine

10AD(8)

IBT
Carthage declared war on the Egyptians.
Delhi-> Copernicus

30AD(9) some marketplace coming
50AD (10) ditto

Tech wise, the same 5 are still the only one with the 3 visible tech.
China and Babylon are up Engineering & Chivalry, but not Theology yet.
The other civ are at our level except Spain (still 4 tech behind) and Japan (lacking Monotheism)

We can't buy anything anyway right now, but some deals will stop in 5t.
We have 203g (+36gpt).

No map as there is no big change (a few tree less, a few more roads...)

Jabah

Save is HERE
 
IT 50AD: Whaddya mean there's no sites left to settle? Git your tails back on over there!

:whipped: POACH ME A CITY! :whipped:


70AD: Buy Mongolian silks. (Don't ask me how they can trade with us. They would need... um... Astronomy to do that, and according to recent reports, "we are caught up on tech").

I look into firing some of our Air Marshalls, but after floating a trial balloon and watching all those faces turn distinctly unhappy, the truth is revealed that there was never any intent to fire any Air Marshalls, and in fact, we will be hiring more. The, erm, necessary budget cuts? We don't need no steeking budget cuts. Our trade with Mongolia will, erm, stimulate the economy all on its own! Yeah, that's the ticket.

150AD: Uh, oops. The economy seems to have been stimulated all on its own, thanks to the trade agreement with Mongolia. Uh, yeah, that was the plan all along! (Didn't you get the memo??)

170AD: Those Carthaginian ships are wandering out onto the deep ocean. Fools. Don't they realize they'll get swallowed up by sea serpents and storms? Why, they'd need some way to Navigate to survive way out there. Also rumors of construction on a great cathedral in Egypt are stirring the masses.

190AD: Forbidden Palace completed in Pyong. Our economy receives a slight boost, most noticeable in eastern towns.

210AD: Egypt has now also begun construction on a grand theater. A number of empires are rumored to be experimenting with a radical experiment called democracy.

230AD: It's official. The people love me.

:worship: :king: :worship:
st1-230ad.jpg



250AD: Our previous financial commitments come to an end. I catch us up on map information (turning some profit after initial investment).

The Lost Fourteenth Tribe has been spotted off the coast of Zululand.
st1-250ad.jpg


Using the profits gained, I establish an embassy with Carthage.

st1-carthage.jpg


They are having their golden age in Democracy? Ha! The laugh is on them! Why, everybody knows that's the worst government to be sitting in for your golden age! (Didn't you get the memo??)

With several AI's having instigated military golden ages with numerous brush wars, we have NO IDEA how we've gone from tech parity to ten or twelve techs behind in just a dozen or so turns. :crazyeye:

There is land off our southwest coast, but we'll never reach it in time. We can take it over later, perhaps, though. We may also want to train a few settlers and send them off on boats in hopes of poaching territory in distant war-torn regions, but only as opportunities back home warrant.

Trade should open up wider soon. The Babs are begging for our horses, if we can find a way to ship them over there.

There were no multitech broker opportunities. Spending our entire wad on Theology to trade to the Zulus for Chivalry was not good enough, so I left Gris an intact income, and she will have to sort out how to get both a good value and get us closer to Banking, out of whatever chances the game presents. Embassy with Greece and Mongolia also on the to-do list.

Be careful with city riots. We are riding the thin blue line in regard to approval rating.


ST1 - 250AD


- Sirian
 
With Speaker out of town for the weekend, I'd like to use this evening to plug away at Epic 32, though. I'll play in earnest tomorrow.

Looks like our Carthaginian friends have been getting so many, um, questionable memos lately they missed that one about The Importance of Mining. :lol:

-Griselda
 
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