SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects

vra379971 said:
Pft, speak for yourself! I for one foresaw this eventuality aaaaaalll along.....:goodjob:

....and yeah, lets do that. Can we steal DR? XD



Any good ideas on how to AVOID this?
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Since Memphis is the Islam holy city, one would think that she has already Divine Rights... however, it is NOT shown on the list of her techs (and it should if she had it). So what happened? Here's what I think: Bhudism HC was dealt out at the beginning of the game. However, the game still thinks that Meditation founds a religion. So when someone techs Meditation, they found a different religion, and when they gets Mono she founds Islam... we got misled into believing that DR is already teched, because the religion-founding gets really screwy when you assign religion HC's in worldbuilder (note, I saw similar making the medieval start botm, where I founded 3 religions to make the distribution the same for all players, but the game then randomly assigned 3 MORE religions at game start-- big mess if you don't found them all.) Judging by the early turn of Islam founding, I suspect this is what happened. SpMin should be relatively safe atm.

So, no, we can't steal DR because nobody has it yet! Freaky, I know. So perhaps UoS tech DR while building EP to get the rest.

As for preventing the flip of Agra... I think we would get +diplo if we select the return city to Liz option instead of the keep it option... but not sure those options will appear-anybody know what determines that? Otherwise, don't hire artists and don't build culture nearby is the best we can do to prevent its flipping.
 
kcd_swede said:
Since Memphis is the Islam holy city, one would think that she has already Divine Rights... however, it is NOT shown on the list of her techs (and it should if she had it). So what happened? Here's what I think: Bhudism HC was dealt out at the beginning of the game. However, the game still thinks that Meditation founds a religion. So when someone techs Meditation, they found a different religion, and when they gets Mono she founds Islam... we got misled into believing that DR is already teched, because the religion-founding gets really screwy when you assign religion HC's in worldbuilder (note, I saw similar making the medieval start botm, where I founded 3 religions to make the distribution the same for all players, but the game then randomly assigned 3 MORE religions at game start-- big mess if you don't found them all.) Judging by the early turn of Islam founding, I suspect this is what happened. SpMin should be relatively safe atm.

So, no, we can't steal DR because nobody has it yet! Freaky, I know. So perhaps UoS tech DR while building EP to get the rest.
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This is exactly correct, and having done this in worldbuilder before I should have remembered it. :blush: :blush: :blush:
 
Yes, kcd must be right about Islam/DR. I also had that weird "discover a tech that founds a religion and choose it yourself" business in the test game.

As for helping Liz hold her cities, we could build Buddhist missionaries in Kyoto and gift them to her. We'd have to build a monastery, though, or else switch into OrgRel. On the other hand, she's running Merc'lism so she gets a free spec--if the AI has any sense she'd run an artist at first, right? 3 turns after coming out of revolt should tell...

Remember that Toku's first DoW did not have a WHEOOHRN warning. I'd like to finish Engineering first because it gives us pikes, which are good against Liz's 2 knights and WE. Nearby cities will build maces ASAP to counter her gren. I recently moved an Xbow and mace to join the archer in Tokyo to fend off Hatty--do we want to hold Tokyo? It could be a net plus economically if we let it grow, and would give Kyoto more of a buffer for all those eastern resource tiles. If not, I could withdraw all/some units to Kyoto for more security against Liz's cities.

Let's see if I can collect kcd's scheme:
  • Cities near Agra/Kago build maces/Xbows/pikes and shift over some units from Kyoto. (But build one spy ASAP.)
  • Build lots of spies to steal techs from Agra. Put espi slider on Liz. Finish Eng, then DR if we get a Prophet, then 100% on espi for a bit. Steal ASAP, without waiting for 5 turns (?) If Agra gets 20% culture then we won't need to worry (as much) about it flipping so we can then let the spies wait for 5 turns. Remind me--a city won't flip after one revolt, right?
  • Keep track of how many EP needed to convert Liz, and how much to steal tech.
  • Explore with caravel/spy. Another caravel will be ready soon. Send spy or miss depending on what first caravel finds. Do we want a 3rd caravel? Yes, unless we get lucky on access.
  • If Agra/Kago don't pop borders soon (indicating an artist), have Kyoto build Bmonastery and then missionary(ies) to infect them. Remember this idea, but assume it's not needed.
  • Pop Bolly's GP (hopefully a Prophet) ASAP--about 5 turns. Would this be a good place to pause/stop? Yes, probably.
  • Should I gift another Hmiss to Liz? We don't want her to spread Hinduism too much, and she might be tempted by the AP hammers. But Agra is her only Hindu city and if she loses it somehow (stuff happens when you can't make perfect plans--see Toku) we could be in real trouble because we've got to have her infected for a Religious win. If she loses Agra and DoWs us, what are our prospects for ever getting OB with her again to gift missionaries? I guess we're OK for now if we watch her vote tally to see if a core city gets infected, but it could be quite a long time before we know. And the likely possibility that she'll need to ferry the miss to her core makes things a little dicier. On the other hand, if she DoWs us we could take Kago, infect it, and give it back for peace. (I think. Would it be considered contiguous (with Agra and therefore her empire)? And/or would ever owning it mean she'd take it back?) In addition to our defensive build up near Agra/Kago, we need to have a Hindu miss (or two) ready to go. No more gifts for now, but have a miss handy (unless other infections require higher priority).
  • When the AP vote comes up in 2 turns, do nothing. But if possible, in order of preference: Holy war on Hammy, OB with all, or peace with Liz (if she DoW us). If Agra flips to us, give it back.
  • In Vijay, hold. Continue to send in reinforcements, wipe out his stack if there's an opportunity, and eventually go on the attack.
  • Civics: Consider switching from Caste to Slavery. I think keeping our cities big and running specs is more effective than whipping at this point, but perhaps a brief time in Slavery to whip out trebs, etc. would be useful. Earlier would be better than later to give time for the trebs to assemble up north. If Bolly is going to be tied up building the Minaret then whipping elsewhere will be more attractive. I'll probably wait until Eng is done and/or we see what GP we get.
  • Run spies where it makes sense.
What are my errors and omissions?
 
Never steal on the first possible turn unless you absolutely need to... the success odds are lower on the turn with no discount than on all subsequent turns.

I don't think we need to steal so quickly, the city will have to go into revolt again before it can flip. And we should be able to deny that anyhow, I hope.

Keep track of how many EP will be needed to convert her to Hindu. Don't overspend on tech and miss the chance to get DOW on Hammy. In a religion VC, tech is reletively useless (and I suspect no brokering means we can't gift what we steal), but +diplo is precious. In 7 (12?) turns I want Shaka at war with Hammy. :D

Put a spy in Agra in advance so that it has the 50% reduction on the "Influence religion" mission. Have two in case the first fails. Run the mission when the counter says 0 turns to next vote. She'll be unable to change religion again for 5t, and we want the vote when she's a full member.

BTW: You could even consider hiring some spy specialists... if we got a GSpy I wouldn't cry. ;)

I'd only steal a tech asap if we suddenly need pikes or lbs immediately. If Agra goes into revolt while the spy is there, then saving an extra 10% per mission is overridden by need to get stuff quickly.

I don't think the BMiss plan is worth doing... she could just send it home anyhow. But technically, you don't have to gift it because in Theo she can still get state religion spread, so we should be able to put bhudism there ourselves. I think she'll run artists to take the fish, and be pretty safe from flipping for a long while, though. I guess you want a BMonastary anyhow, so go ahead.

3 caravels is probably the right number. If you can get one with a H-miss to GK then do so... assuming there isn't an ice barrier.

I think putting UoS tech on DR is better, but we have beakers invested in Engr so stealing that tech is less bonus... even though it might be technically faster to steal it than tech it.

So to understand, you plan to finish engr manually, and THEN steal other stuff while slow- teching DR? That's OK... we can finish Engr while the spies are sitting, but not if we are making huge amounts of EP per turn. Find a balance that leaves us enough EP to do something before the vote in 7 turns.

BTW: am I being silly here... isn't the vote cycle 10 turns, not 5? That would be 12 turns to get the war going. You'll see after the vote in 2 turns how many turns until the next vote. :crazyeye:

So ok... you plan to play until the GP comes in 5 turns, have a couple spies stationed in Agra, have Engr done ourselves, and make oodles of EP at the same time. Sounds good. :eek: All while killing babylon. What could possibly go wrong. :lol::mischief:

My advice... lots is going on, so take it slow, in small pieces. We'll make up time by finishing before 1400AD. ;)
 
OK, will wait for 5-turn discount unless Agra is in danger of flipping. Keep track of how many EP to convert Liz to Hinduism. BTW, the listed EP cost for tech stealing is for the cheapest tech--probably Aesth. Engineering will be substantially more, and I'm pretty sure you get no discount for having partially teched it so it's cheaper for us to finish it. Ditto for Feudalism.

Yes, 10 turns between votes, so we'll have to wait on the war--that can be somebody else's worry. ;) Good reminder about no tech brokering--I would assume it applies to what we steal--so we do not want to steal Banking! We have to be able to gift it to all our friends. Of course, if they already have it then stealing would be fine. And yes, we should run spies in some places--not Bolly, since we want to maximize Prophet probability. And not in cities devoted to Sci's (unless we get one in Bolly) because we want to be able to gift Education. I guess that leaves merchant cities for now, but we'll rethink after we see what Bolly pops.

I don't think the BMiss plan is worth doing... she could just send it home anyhow. But technically, you don't have to gift it because in Theo she can still get state religion spread, so we should be able to put bhudism there ourselves. I think she'll run artists to take the fish, and be pretty safe from flipping for a long while, though. I guess you want a BMonastary anyhow, so go ahead.
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I'd rather not waste hammers on a Bmonastery so we'll hold off on that idea.

OK on 3 caravels unless we quickly find an entrance. Yes, infect Genghis and Cyrus ASAP, but undoubtedly Neil made that difficult. When/if we find there's no way to infect by sea we'll need to get serious about escorting miss's to them through hostile territory. Or kill Hammy. ;)

Yes, balancing research and espi to get Eng, DR, and stolen techs ASAP will require some thought. I'll do my best. It'll take at least 3 turns to get a spy in Agra, and then we want to let him sit for 5 turns, so we can wait a bit on the espi slider. I don't want to slow-research DR--make it fast. But I won't put any research toward it until we find out what GP we got.
 
Xcalibrator said:
OK, will wait for 5-turn discount unless Agra is in danger of flipping. Keep track of how many EP to convert Liz to Hinduism. BTW, the listed EP cost for tech stealing is for the cheapest tech--probably Aesth. Engineering will be substantially more, and I'm pretty sure you get no discount for having partially teched it so it's cheaper for us to finish it. Ditto for Feudalism.

Yes, 10 turns between votes, so we'll have to wait on the war--that can be somebody else's worry. ;) Good reminder about no tech brokering--I would assume it applies to what we steal--so we do not want to steal Banking! We have to be able to gift it to all our friends. Of course, if they already have it then stealing would be fine. And yes, we should run spies in some places--not Bolly, since we want to maximize Prophet probability. And not in cities devoted to Sci's (unless we get one in Bolly) because we want to be able to gift Education. I guess that leaves merchant cities for now, but we'll rethink after we see what Bolly pops.


I'd rather not waste hammers on a Bmonastery so we'll hold off on that idea.

OK on 3 caravels unless we quickly find an entrance. Yes, infect Genghis and Cyrus ASAP, but undoubtedly Neil made that difficult. When/if we find there's no way to infect by sea we'll need to get serious about escorting miss's to them through hostile territory. Or kill Hammy. ;)

Yes, balancing research and espi to get Eng, DR, and stolen techs ASAP will require some thought. I'll do my best. It'll take at least 3 turns to get a spy in Agra, and then we want to let him sit for 5 turns, so we can wait a bit on the espi slider. I don't want to slow-research DR--make it fast. But I won't put any research toward it until we find out what GP we got.
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Sounds good. green from me.
 
T177 continued--Adjust city builds and citizen assignments. Put all EP on Liz. 210 EPs needed to steal tech in Agra, 180 to influence religion. Research at 0%. 2 caravels being built. Heal in Vijay.

T178--Hatty makes peace with Genghi, and shuffles units around Lahore but no movement toward Tokyo. Osaka finishes spy, starts another. Hammy sits by Vijay. No change in espi costs in Agra. Our caravel meets Mansagawa. Aha! And Huaynagawa shows up on the advisor screens, too, and they are indeed teamed. They do not have CoL or CS (or Theology, like the others). They only have 60+40 gold so I gift them CoL and gain +4. I sell our map to HC for 60 (and Mansa won't give me anything because he has it now, too.) They know everybody except Liz.

T179--Hammy has 2 more maces and 2 more trebs next to his main stack. Mansa/HC have proven the world is round--sorry, didn't think about that when selling our map. Kago's borders pop, Agra comes out of revolt. No change in Agra espi costs. HC's coast is all mountains so far. 2nd caravel ready to depart with spy. Our other spy is 1 turn from entering Agra. All Vijay units healed and big stack of reinforcements has arrived; some need to heal a bit, and I'm keeping our cats out of the city so they will not be damaged if/when Hammy attacks. Our last GG has now been attached to a 7XP archer. I've upgraded him to an Xbow but am holding off on promos until I see what's needed--he doesn't have enough movement to enter Vijay this turn. Shaka has 230 in gold all of a sudden. I sell Theology to him. 0 turns until next AP vote.

T180--:D:D:D AP vote comes up and "Declare war on Hammaragawa" is on the list. We shall choose this. Engineering is done, continue Feud at 0% (3 turns). 2 Great Spies have been born. Our northern spy discovers that there is a land passage to England!! At Vijay, I throw all our cats against Hammy and lose all but one. But they weaken his stack so our Xbows win every battle. That leaves his maces vs our axes and spears, though, so I stop. I give our warlord Xbow CG3+Drill2 and move him in to defend. Agra espi costs have gone up slightly to 231 tech, 198 religion. Bolly will pop GP in 2 turns with ~70% odds of Prophet. Oh dear. Hatty has an Lbow, 2HA, 2XB, 3chariots, 1 treb in Lahore. She wants Tokyo for peace. I decline.. for now.

T181--AP resolution succeeds! (No surprise.) Shaka will sign OB! At Vijay, we lose 2 Xbows and Hammy is now down to 4 wounded units. Our superXbow survived with 1.5/6. We kill his remaining units and gain another GG! :D Holy crap, Hatty has a ton of units near Tokyo now. I want to play one more turn to get the GP before we decide whether or not to accept peace. Oh CRAP! Liz has a stack of 35 units 2E of Tokyo in our territory! They must be heading to Kago/Agra but maybe we don't want them to. I'm stopping here. Spy has been resting in Agra for 1 turn. 1 turn to GP pop.

Spoiler Upload log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1170 AD to 1210 AD:

Turn 177, 1170 AD: You have trained a Archer in Delhi. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 177, 1170 AD: You have trained a Archer in Vijayanagara. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 177, 1170 AD: Cyrusgawa adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 177, 1170 AD: Hatsegawa has made peace with Genghigawa!

Turn 178, 1180 AD: You have trained a Maceman in Bollywood. Work has now begun on a Aqueduct.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: The borders of Holy Cow have expanded!
Turn 178, 1180 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Varanasi. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Mansagawa/Huayanagawa has proven that the world is round!

Turn 179, 1190 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Vijayanagara!
Turn 179, 1190 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Vijayanagara!
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Elizagawa has 250 gold available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Shakagawa has 230 gold available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Mansagawa has 8 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Huayanagawa has 12 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Hatsegawa is willing to negotiate.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Hatsegawa will trade Aesthetics, Calendar, Engineering
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Will Trade Map: Hatsegawa
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Hatsegawa
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Calcutta will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: You have discovered Engineering!
Turn 179, 1190 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: You have trained a Spy in Calcutta. Work has now begun on a Hindu Monastery.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: John Barlow (Great Spy) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Hattori Hanzo (Great Spy) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 180, 1200 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Vijayanagara!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Calcutta has grown to size 4.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Mansagawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (7.20)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 5.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 29 (Bollywood) has caused collateral damage! (5 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood) is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 29 (Bollywood)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 29 (Bollywood) has died trying to attack a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (7.20)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 5.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 28 (Drona) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona) is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 28 (Drona)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 28 (Drona) has died trying to attack a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (10.40)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 3.8%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: -10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 27 (Bollywood) has caused collateral damage! (5 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood) is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood) is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood) is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood) is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 27 (Bollywood)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 27 (Bollywood) has died trying to attack a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) (4.80) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (10.40)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 3.3%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 28 (68/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 28 (40/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 28 (12/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 5 (Vijayanagara) has died trying to attack a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 8 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (6.70)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 29.3%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 8 (Bollywood) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 8 (Bollywood) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 8 (Bollywood) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 8 (Bollywood) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (70/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (54/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (38/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 8 (Bollywood) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 8 (Bollywood) has withdrawn from combat with a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (9.04)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 11.4%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 1 (Bollywood) has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (73/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (59/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 1 (Bollywood)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 1 (Bollywood) has died trying to attack a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (4.32)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 59.7%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 14 (Drona) has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (42/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 14 (Drona)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 14 (Drona) has died trying to attack a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (7.95)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 26.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 11 (Bollywood) has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (57/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (43/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 14 (29/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood) is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Catapult 11 (Bollywood)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Catapult 11 (Bollywood) has died trying to attack a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) (6.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (4.17)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 91.9%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (38/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (18/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has defeated Hammuragawa's Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) (6.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (3.02)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 95.2%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 21 (21/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) has defeated Hammuragawa's Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Crossbowman 4 (Bollywood) has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) (6.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (4.52)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 75.1%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 19 (39/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 19 (20/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 19 (1/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) has defeated Hammuragawa's Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) (6.00) vs Hammuragawa's Longbowman (4.03)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 94.0%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (36/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (16/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) has defeated Hammuragawa's Longbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) (6.00) vs Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (3.51)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (25/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (5/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has defeated Hammuragawa's Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) (8.80) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (6.13)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 94.4%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 20 (39/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 20 (19/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Maceman 23 (Bollywood) has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) (8.80) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (7.34)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 73.2%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 19 (49/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 19 (30/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 19 (11/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Your Maceman 1 (Drona) has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Drona will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Mark Twain (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) (3.77)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 63.2%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -145%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) has defeated Hammuragawa's Trebuchet!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Nebuchadrezzar II has killed a Babylonian Trebuchet!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Gandhi's Swordsman 1 (Bollywood) (4.02)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 63.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -120%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (5 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Swordsman 1 (Bollywood) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: A Trebuchet has withdrawn from combat with your Swordsman 1 (Bollywood)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet (4.00) vs Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) (2.68)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 95.0%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -120%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Nebuchadrezzar II (Crossbowman) is hit for 21 (39/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: A Trebuchet has withdrawn from combat with your Nebuchadrezzar II!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult (2.55) vs Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) (5.51)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 1.9%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult is hit for 26 (25/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) is hit for 15 (58/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has defeated Hammuragawa's Catapult!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has killed a Babylonian Catapult!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman (5.72) vs Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) (5.25)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 62.3%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 19 (46/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Crossbowman 3 (Bombay)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Crossbowman 3 (Bombay) was destroyed by a Babylonian Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult (2.35) vs Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) (6.24)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 6.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (6 Units)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult is hit for 29 (18/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Catapult is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 23 (Bollywood) has defeated Hammuragawa's Catapult!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Maceman 23 (Bollywood) has killed a Babylonian Catapult!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer (3.38) vs Gandhi's Spearman 2 (Vijayanagara) (8.75)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (21/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 2 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 15 (74/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Horse Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 2 (Vijayanagara) has defeated Hammuragawa's Horse Archer!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Spearman 2 (Vijayanagara) has killed a Babylonian Horse Archer!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman (5.76) vs Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) (6.97)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 10.9%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 21 (39/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) is hit for 18 (50/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) is hit for 18 (32/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 21 (18/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has killed a Babylonian Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman (4.70) vs Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) (7.69)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 10.3%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 24 (25/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) is hit for 16 (42/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 24 (1/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Crossbowman 2 (Delhi) has killed a Babylonian Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman (3.26) vs Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) (7.66)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 1.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 16 (46/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 16 (30/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 16 (14/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 24 (10/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman has defeated Gandhi's Crossbowman 8 (Bombay)!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Crossbowman 8 (Bombay) was destroyed by a Babylonian Maceman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman (1.98) vs Gandhi's Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) (4.41)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Combat Odds: 2.5%
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Plot Defense: +11%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 18 (59/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 21 (9/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 18 (41/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) is hit for 18 (23/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hammuragawa's Crossbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Gandhi's Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) has defeated Hammuragawa's Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: While defending, your Archer 18 (Vijayanagara) has killed a Babylonian Crossbowman!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Hatsegawa has declared war on Hammuragawa!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Elizagawa has declared war on Hammuragawa!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Shakagawa has declared war on Hammuragawa!
Turn 180, 1200 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Declare war on Hammuragawa (Requires 137 of 221 Total Votes)

Turn 181, 1210 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Drona has grown to size 11.
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Genghigawa has 130 gold available for trade.
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Will Sign Open Borders: Shakagawa
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) (7.04) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (4.04)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Combat Odds: 93.5%
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 22 (24/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 22 (2/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Maceman 1 (Drona) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Your Maceman 1 (Drona) has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) (3.96) vs Hammuragawa's Trebuchet (2.56)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Combat Odds: 98.2%
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (40/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (16/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has defeated Hammuragawa's Trebuchet!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Your Crossbowman 5 (Bombay) has destroyed a Trebuchet!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 19 (Bollywood) (5.00) vs Hammuragawa's Maceman (1.36)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Maceman is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Axeman 19 (Bollywood) has defeated Hammuragawa's Maceman!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Michiel de Ruyter (Great General) has been born in Bombay (Gandhi)!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Your Axeman 19 (Bollywood) has destroyed a Maceman!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 5 (Vijayanagara) (4.00) vs Hammuragawa's Trebuchet (0.80)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Hammuragawa's Trebuchet is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Gandhi's Spearman 5 (Vijayanagara) has defeated Hammuragawa's Trebuchet!
Turn 181, 1210 AD: Your Spearman 5 (Vijayanagara) has destroyed a Trebuchet!
 
I'd give Tokyo for peace, its just gonna cause strife trying to keep it... extra close border unhappiness and all that. Plus, Hatty will be back for it later if we for example give tech for peace (if that is even possible, I haven't looked at the save).

As for Liz's units... what are you worried about? She's our war ally against Babylon. They are surely headed there. :mischief:

I'll have a look at the save. AP is full of glitches, that's why I can never predict with 100% accuracy what resolutions will be available based from how its supposed to work. :crazyeye: Not complaining, this time. No need to influence religion on Liz now... just steal her blind... I'd take banking first. Switch to Merc, and make Liz our BFF. We only need 1 AI to vote for us. Since she'll use that other mish we gave her, its great to get her votes. If we are over 75% after all AI have Hindu, we can gift her cities until we are down to 74%.

I just want to remind you all that one pitfall that slows down religion VC's is getting caught up in all the other stuff instead of the primary objectives. 1) spread hindu to all, 2) get ONE AI friendly to vote for us, making sure we stay under 75%.

Tech doesn't matter. Power doesn't matter. Cash doesn't matter. Nothing matters, really... just get the two things above done quickly. More important than SpMin, more important than keeping a hard-to defend city, more important than grabbing land.

So with that in mind I'll take a look at the save and see how to wrap this up ASAP. ;)
 
OK, looking at the save, I think our initial idea that we will want to gift banking is a good one, so we can tech that ourselves. I notice that Liz has left Merc anyhow, so we'll need either to bribe her back into it, or more cheaply... influence civics by esp.
(thet's short for espionage, not extra sensory perception):p

Let's give Tokyo to Hatty for peace. Otherwise she'll take it anyhow and demand Kyoto for peace.:rolleyes: Maybe our common war is enough for her to open borders once we stop being her WE... then we can easily infect GK. (Only Liz is running Theo).

Lets cross our fingers and let Liz's stack through. If we don't, she will probably DOW us to get them through. If she does DOW us, it will send them out of our borders anyhow. Not so good if they end up in Kago/Agra, but that doesn't seem likely right now. And in 8 turns there is an AP vote to try and save the day. If they were planning to DOW us, they's have stomped on Tokyo first, I think. If we have settler ready to make a hindu city in the wreckage of Nippur, we can end that war before he's totally dead by giving him the crap city for peace (right before an AP vote to force peace among members, preferably).

We'll be off her WE list soon with just the war, but if we can get her to Merc that speeds it up (after we have banking). We could also give a huge cash gift to her if anyone thinks that the +4 fair trade is needed right now. I think it'd be a waste of cash, as she will forget before vote time comes.

If we are first to DR, we should gift it around to our FT's (but not their WE's) once we have the SpMin nearly done.

If we get a GSci, we can make some trades, perhaps.

Sign OB with Shaka.

See if you can get the HMiss on the caravel to Tabriz, but if you can get him to a Persian city (or land him in Shakaland and go land-route) do that instead (farthest civ first, small city with low growth potential).

HC/MM are in WHEOOH right now. Their lowest combined relations are with Cyrus and GK (at +2 total). I suspect they are planning either to dogpile Babylon, or are going to attack their nearest neighbor, whoever that may be. They are not showing any close border negatives, nor is anyone having close border issues with them. HC is founder of Judaism and is running that, making him soon to be the worlds worst enemy. Too bad we can't sell contacts between Liz and them like in Civ3. :p The sooner they meet each other the better for us.

We still have not found where Mansa is located. If we get edu (or banking) and trade it around, be sure to get maps if we can... save a lot of time in exploration. Both AI on a team need to be infected (unless there is some glitch I don't know about), and their relation with you is the average of the two, not weighted for population. So they'd make a terrible FT.

Since Liz is so big and nasty, I really think we should try to make her happy with us, even if we never get her to friends it is probably worth it. When Babylons dead she will be looking for a place to put that stack. :eek:

I think we are rather short on units for taking on Babylon ourselves, honestly. Mostly lacking is seige, so the trebs are a good idea... have them finished when the stack is ready to move. I'd make another HMiss and bring him and the settler along with the stack. That's where they will do any good.

Play another turn to see what happens with the GP. Make peace with Hatty for Tokyo (after removing the units) and sign OB with anyone who will. The main goal right now is infecting the AI. So finding a way in to Inca and Mali is paramount... and always check if they are willing to take a hindu city (they aren't now, but maybe later). Look for vacant places you could found a city they might take. But the HMiss need to try and get to Cyrus and GK while we have OB. Farther civ first, smallest city with low growth potential. Any turns we detour from banking for SpMin will be turns wasted, imo. Lets get banking first. We are the only WE on the board atm... check again when we have banking and if it remains so, then go ahead and GIFT to everyone (getting map in exchange where/if possible), switch to merc, and use esp to get others to switch if they don't do it on their own. Win.

SpMin is probably not going to speed up a relig win. But good to have if it proves impossible to infect MM/HC in any reasonable time period. I'm optimistic for a very fast/competitive finish date... all those mountains are made to make Dom VC harder, and no vassals makes Conq a long affair as well. MGN's culture attempt will be several centuries too slow. But we still need to beat other AP/UN aiming teams. Remember, there is no bonus for points, so giving up cities is sometimes the best thing to do.

Rule of thumb, always have 3 HMiss standing by or in queue. Even after all are infected, we'll want them to manipulate vote totals. Make another asap is what I'm saying. The one near Kago should go to the front in Babylon. The one on the Carvel should go to Persia if possible, otherwise Tabriz(GK).

How many turns left for Xcal to play? Who is on-deck?

BTW: :goodjob: on the common war!
 
JUST Before you make peace with Hatty, move the archer in Tokyo to the PH 3W from Tokyo and get to see what that black looks like. Could be a land-route to Incan?
 
I don't know if I can afford the time to assemble all kcd's excellent suggestions into a plan before I get home, but we'll see. In the meantime, should we gift/trade Theocracy to anyone? It's a dead-end tech that nobody has and we've already built the AP so I see no danger in letting the AI have it. Mansa/HC are also missing Civil Service--give/trade that, too? Shall I butter up Hatty, hoping for OBs? That would probably make it much easier to get to Mansa/HC. (You probably addressed that--I'll read more carefully when I have time.)

How do I tell who is whose worst enemy? I've always used the Diplo/Glance screen, hovering over each name, but no WE shows up lately--is that just because there are no WEs at the moment? But how can that be when there are wars?

Shall I direct Shaka to attack Hammy? Ditto for Liz? Or do we want to reserve Babylon for ourselves? I sure hope you're right about Liz just passing through because if not, I think it's game over--there's no way we could defend our cities once she's past Kyoto. But I think you're right about her attacking Tokyo first, and she's already in our territory.

I also forgot to check on whether Hinduism is spreading in England. Just as a thought, would it be useful to switch her into Hinduism for a little while?

I'll finish off Feud with a low research rate (10% ought to do it) and save up gold for Banking, with the assumption that we can steal Guilds from Agra in 4 turns. That'll require turning up the espi slider at some point; I should be able to gauge how much is needed once we can see what's needed for Aesthetics--can probably check that out now.

Sorry about no screenshots; it was getting quite late and my nerves were shot--almost 2 hours to play 4 turns. Can't open the save until I get home.
 
One other important question: What exactly does the "traded" in "traded with our worst enemy" mean? Open borders? Trade routes? Resource trades? Tech/map trades? Do gifts count as trades? Does each trade with someone's WE count against us, or is their "value" that matters? E.g., if we gift techs to a WE, should we do them all at once or is it the same if you do them one at a time?

Since we need OBs with HC/Mansa to infect them, and HC is running Judaism and is/will be everyone's WE, should we "trade" with them now to get OBs while the diplo penalties with others are relatively low?
 
In the meantime, should we gift/trade Theocracy to anyone?
Click to expand...
No, save stuff to gift closer to the diplo vic voting... they forget too quickly. Banking is an exception because even if they forget the gift, we'll be using the time to build up fav civics diplo.

Mansa/HC are also missing Civil Service--give/trade that, too?
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Hmm. with MM/HC we could buy enough +diplo to get them to open borders. But until we find an opening, no point trying that yet.

Shall I butter up Hatty, hoping for OBs?
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Joint war with Hammy helps a lot. It might be enough by itself to get her to OB. Anyhow, we don't have anything she wants except more cities... and she can't have those. But extra resources... maybe. Just beware it can backfire if we get demands. I think we can keep up in tech with Hatty and hold Kyoto, so I wouldn't go to extraordinary efforts with her atm.


How do I tell who is whose worst enemy?
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There is a little figure of a man in a red shirt next to the diplo value shown in the Glance screen (it might be an option in Buffy that needs to be active, like exoctic foreign advisor). At the moment, only 3 AI have a WE, and its us. Even though they are at war with others. Its a riot, Liz is +2 and Pleased with Hammy who she is at war with, but +2 and hates our guts. :lol: (doing those numbers from memory, could be slightly different).

Also see that MM and HC hate each other at -1 or worse, but showing yellow friendly because they are a team. With a team, its very hard to predict who they will attack... depends on which AI rolls a war first.


But how can that be when there are wars?
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The new war is giving only -3 for spoiling relations. Might grow over time. Its called war-monger respect. They give ghandi -6 to -8 for the same.

Shall I direct Shaka to attack Hammy? Ditto for Liz? Or do we want to reserve Babylon for ourselves?
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Can you do that? Can you talk to them (Let's talk about something else) and ask them to attack the city, and they DO it??? Babylon has the GLH... would be nice to have, but no big deal. We just need to be able to pass missionaries through that pass and the one at Borsippa. (Note, if we get him a member, we can force his borders open, and he can keep it for all it matters to our finish date... might even be the fastest.)

I sure hope you're right about Liz just passing through because if not, I think it's game over--there's no way we could defend our cities once she's past Kyoto.
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I hope so to. But I did a rough mental calculation... its game over even if she DOES have to go through Kyoto after DOWing us. So what we need to happen is that she doesn't DOW us. :D And if she's not DOWing, let her get to where the fighting is.:cool:


But I think you're right about her attacking Tokyo first, and she's already in our territory.

I also forgot to check on whether Hinduism is spreading in England.
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I checked... it isn't. Still at 2 votes. Shaka up to 12, but that's probably city growth, not spread.

Just as a thought, would it be useful to switch her into Hinduism for a little while?
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It doesn't hurt... we'd instantly lose a lot of heathen negatives. However, I am concerned if she never switches back. As an opponent, I don't see anyone voting for us over her for a very long time (note that you can only influence a religion change TO your own state religion, same with civics).


Sorry about no screenshots; it was getting quite late and my nerves were shot--almost 2 hours to play 4 turns. Can't open the save until I get home.
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Same here... and I spent a long time looking at the map and counting tiles. The best I can see is that it is a 52 x 52 tile map. Which means Neil found a way to modify a map size, since the only square standard size maps are smaller. There are only 6 tiles of black sea unfogged between Babylon and Tabriz. Wanna bet there's something in the way?:rolleyes:
Guessing MM is in the north in the fog. Not room for both where HC is seen, imo.

One other important question: What exactly does the "traded" in "traded with our worst enemy" mean? Open borders? Trade routes? Resource trades? Tech/map trades?
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Its cumulative.... OB and (fair) trade resources do not count, unless they demand we stop and we don't stop. Gifts and trades of tech or lump sum count... the more lopsided the trade or bigger the gift, the worse the penalty. I don't know the exact numbers and threshold for how much you can get away with.

Right now, its not a problem trading anytyhing with anybody. No worsts enemies except us.




Do gifts count as trades? Does each trade with someone's WE count against us, or is their "value" that matters? E.g., if we gift techs to a WE, should we do them all at once or is it the same if you do them one at a time?
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Its the same, though if spread out over long enough time, is chance the earlier gifts are forgotten.

Since we need OBs with HC/Mansa to infect them, and HC is running Judaism and is/will be everyone's WE, should we "trade" with them now to get OBs while the diplo penalties with others are relatively low?
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Some merit to that. I'd risk holding off a little to see if we find a way in... but once they DOW somebody, it will cost diplo on someone to buy OB. Unless they DOW us.. then no probs with WE. :lol: (Let them capture an island city and end the game).
 
10 characters



Edit: Might be nice to whip a spy in Tokyo in case we don't get OB with Hatty... that corner needs to be scouted desperately... and might as well minimize Tokyo pop while we are at it. That means you have to switch the build to spy and wait one turn to whip it the next, and then not give the city to the following turn, but I don't think we have 3 turns to play with. Spy in Kyoto then if we cannot get OB after the peace. If we do get OB, use a 2-move unit to scout with.
 
I doubt I'll even make it to Banking, but here's a plan for that far.

Prime directive: Spread Hinduism to all.
Secondary directive: Make friends (carefully); especially Liz.

  • Monitor:
    • EPs needed to steal tech and convert
    • Each AI's AP voting weight
    • Everyone's WE status (adjust BUFFY setting for exotic advisor?)
  • Sign OB with Shaka.
  • Get peace with Hatty this turn (but first unfog to our east).
  • Ask Shaka to attack Hammmy city (not Babylon).
  • Ask Liz to attack Hammy city (not Babylon).
  • Spread Hinduism. If we can't go west, try the long way by land if possible.
    Have settler/Hmiss ready in north to give Hammy a city if we can't take/infect/gift one of his (or kill him completely).
  • Try to found cities near M/HC to gift with Hinduism.
  • Have 3 miss's at all times, actively (so far as possible) seeking new civs to infect.
  • Give/sell CS to M/HC if/when OB would be useful (and before they become someone's WE). Or bribe/ask them to join Hammy war.
  • Build up forces to attack Hammy, and defend against Hatty.
  • Continue spy exploration--need a new one for Hatty's east. Use a missionary (our only 2-mvt unit) if we get OBs, and try to infect M/HC.
  • Pump spies into Agra for tech stealing.
  • GPs: Bolly pops in 1 turn. Since we want Banking ASAP, no matter what kind of GP it is, save it.
  • Research:
    Finish Feud then save gold (but adjust espi to steal Guilds). Research TBD at 0% (probably DR if we get a Prophet). After Guilds is stolen (4 more turns we hope), research Banking ASAP.
 
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