SGOTM 15 - Phoenix Rising
- Thread starter AlanH
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I think running merchants is good. We don't need spies. We can easily accumulate tons of EPs on Liz in a couple of turns. Build wealth in 3 southern cities puts us in the positive even without merchants.
Take back stone from Cyrus.
We can save US for caravel. It seems like we have plenty of units in transit. There's a Pike or 2 in MP duty that can be moved up as well. The rest would be for defenses later. Hopefully we can get out of war quickly with Liz with war success.
Liz will probably kill a few of her Vandal curs on our pikes. It will hurt our trebs some but that doesn't matter since we will revolt the city. She will have few defenses. She'll probably move some units to Persia anyway. Taking Vandal should be easycakes.
Take back stone from Cyrus.
We can save US for caravel. It seems like we have plenty of units in transit. There's a Pike or 2 in MP duty that can be moved up as well. The rest would be for defenses later. Hopefully we can get out of war quickly with Liz with war success.
Liz will probably kill a few of her Vandal curs on our pikes. It will hurt our trebs some but that doesn't matter since we will revolt the city. She will have few defenses. She'll probably move some units to Persia anyway. Taking Vandal should be easycakes.
Would liz defy an AP peace vote?
Can Ai in war be bribed into war?
Can you play the turnset after Bobby?
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My would probably handle the war aspect better than me, if she's willing. Or we can take mini-TS's. I think she offered. Of course, I'd like to hear from her if she thinks what I'm proposing is not loony tunes. I know she advised against Liz, but maybe second thought to the situation might change her mind. OR maybe I am loony tunes.
I doubt a Peace vote would be defied - I hope the next vote is for the win. Not sure on the AI bribe in war. Technically I guess, but I've never seen it happen. Monty will attack you even if he's at war with someone else, but that is Monty.
There are technically 3 AIs we can get stop trades with Liz now. Furthermore we can try to get Peace treaties with as many Tokus as possible. Treaties with Hatso and Shakakhan pretty much neutralize the English threat. Vandal is a danger, but all we need to do is get the caraval out and mish. Actually, we might want to get 2 of each out to make sure hindu spreads.
I doubt a Peace vote would be defied - I hope the next vote is for the win. Not sure on the AI bribe in war. Technically I guess, but I've never seen it happen. Monty will attack you even if he's at war with someone else, but that is Monty.
There are technically 3 AIs we can get stop trades with Liz now. Furthermore we can try to get Peace treaties with as many Tokus as possible. Treaties with Hatso and Shakakhan pretty much neutralize the English threat. Vandal is a danger, but all we need to do is get the caraval out and mish. Actually, we might want to get 2 of each out to make sure hindu spreads.
Was an initial reaction on attacking Lizzy being suicidal 
Iam not sure, it's hard being sure about anything here on this map lol ~~
I like the english cultured hill in Cyrus' land, but trying Lizzy would be faster..
considering Duckies already won, we have nothing to lose..is okay
About playing war, hopefully we dun have to and just walk in taking 1 city.
Doubt i can do better than any of you guys here.
Iam not sure, it's hard being sure about anything here on this map lol ~~
I like the english cultured hill in Cyrus' land, but trying Lizzy would be faster..
considering Duckies already won, we have nothing to lose..is okay
About playing war, hopefully we dun have to and just walk in taking 1 city.
Doubt i can do better than any of you guys here.
Well this is one Phoenix that will die trying and rise again next game!
I agree. Lymond can't be that bad at war. Can he??? With 3-4 knights and the current stack we could take the city with some EP. With our religion it would be a much cheaper Espionage mission.
Let's give Bobby 5+? turns including the DOW on persians and the vote. Then lymond can do 10 turns and if need be Mylene too. We have 18 days left!
I agree. Lymond can't be that bad at war. Can he??? With 3-4 knights and the current stack we could take the city with some EP. With our religion it would be a much cheaper Espionage mission.
Let's give Bobby 5+? turns including the DOW on persians and the vote. Then lymond can do 10 turns and if need be Mylene too. We have 18 days left!
English have a galleons. Persians will have astronomy soon too. We can always buy more than one caravel. Hopefully Shaka will have some ships to help.
I find finishing units who will get there in time now important, still think US helps most here.
My idea was building them only in close cities, but fast while other cities try supporting the costs.
Was already mentioned too, that we can sell techs almost freely now..just does not matter, we win via taking 1 city now or our game is lost. No reason holding gold trades back.
My idea was building them only in close cities, but fast while other cities try supporting the costs.
Was already mentioned too, that we can sell techs almost freely now..just does not matter, we win via taking 1 city now or our game is lost. No reason holding gold trades back.
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I can see going US for quick buys up North. We can also move up the Pike and LB and reinforce those towns later. I'd rush by trebs and another Pike.
Some immediate quick buys and then fire up EPs on Liz.
(I don't understand how we would settle that English cultured hill)
I think we can't worry too much about ships at present. Just need to make things happen. If we can't win here fairly soon, I don't care much for this game.
Some immediate quick buys and then fire up EPs on Liz.
(I don't understand how we would settle that English cultured hill)
I think we can't worry too much about ships at present. Just need to make things happen. If we can't win here fairly soon, I don't care much for this game.
Speaking of making things happen where is Bobby!
In terms of US we might as well switch as PS gives us little. There is the choice between more units and getting espionage on English. With 20 units it may not matter too much. Buying trebs will be hard due to distance.
Right now we need to play up to turn before vote and keep building up a stack of 20-30 units. I would attack English soon after war vote. Lets secure the war vote first and gift the city to hatsy.
In terms of US we might as well switch as PS gives us little. There is the choice between more units and getting espionage on English. With 20 units it may not matter too much. Buying trebs will be hard due to distance.
Right now we need to play up to turn before vote and keep building up a stack of 20-30 units. I would attack English soon after war vote. Lets secure the war vote first and gift the city to hatsy.
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
OK, time difference plus assignment due meant it was a while till I could log on but it's good to see a lot of debate, and also good to see people coming around to attacking the english.
So the turnset: I'd like answers to all of these before I play tomorrow.
Play up until the turn before the vote. Yes? Then 2 mini 1 turn segments, the turn of the vote and the turn of the declaration (To check if it gets defied or not).
1. Switch to US and buy as many knights near vandal as possible. Get as many units as possible 1SW of vandal so we can choose to move onto that hill or not.
2. Keep artists running in Delhi and run as many as possible in osaka.
3. Bulb PP. (Don't want to keep 1 GS in case we pop a GP GM or GE in cap for a Golden Age?)
4. Switch out of nationalism or stay there for esp bonus+barracks happiness?
5. Gift hatty a city or send a hindu missionary to her? (She is easily bribed out of theo)
6. Still hasn't been answered: Can we bring up a war vote against cyrus and spread hindu to one of his northern cities the same turn? Will that break the vote or will he be able to defy as a result?
7. In the cities near hatty border, build wealth or units for defense against the english?
8. All EP's on liz.
I think that that covers it, comment away. Anything I missed?
So the turnset: I'd like answers to all of these before I play tomorrow.
Play up until the turn before the vote. Yes? Then 2 mini 1 turn segments, the turn of the vote and the turn of the declaration (To check if it gets defied or not).
1. Switch to US and buy as many knights near vandal as possible. Get as many units as possible 1SW of vandal so we can choose to move onto that hill or not.
2. Keep artists running in Delhi and run as many as possible in osaka.
3. Bulb PP. (Don't want to keep 1 GS in case we pop a GP GM or GE in cap for a Golden Age?)
4. Switch out of nationalism or stay there for esp bonus+barracks happiness?
5. Gift hatty a city or send a hindu missionary to her? (She is easily bribed out of theo)
6. Still hasn't been answered: Can we bring up a war vote against cyrus and spread hindu to one of his northern cities the same turn? Will that break the vote or will he be able to defy as a result?
7. In the cities near hatty border, build wealth or units for defense against the english?
8. All EP's on liz.
I think that that covers it, comment away. Anything I missed?
1. Yep.
2. Yep. Switch to merchants if Delhi gets GA.
3. Bulb pp. If no science use 2.
4. Nationalism has some use. Most cities too far. Bureaucracy unless happiness huge issue.
5. Decide after 4t. Gift city seems best. Unless she will switch for tech.
6. Leave this. Bit risky unless tested.
7. Draft 1-2 defenders. Not in Osaka. Finish off knight and wealth seems good.
8. Ep on izzy mix esp slider. Spread religion to the English city before war. Cheaper espionage. Keep spies close.
9. Move the axes/pikes/ longbows to front line.
10 use merchants instead of priests and engineers in cities.
11. See if you can get hatty and shaka to stop trading with izzy. See post by lymond.
Agreed 4/1/1 play turns.
2. Yep. Switch to merchants if Delhi gets GA.
3. Bulb pp. If no science use 2.
4. Nationalism has some use. Most cities too far. Bureaucracy unless happiness huge issue.
5. Decide after 4t. Gift city seems best. Unless she will switch for tech.
6. Leave this. Bit risky unless tested.
7. Draft 1-2 defenders. Not in Osaka. Finish off knight and wealth seems good.
8. Ep on izzy mix esp slider. Spread religion to the English city before war. Cheaper espionage. Keep spies close.
9. Move the axes/pikes/ longbows to front line.
10 use merchants instead of priests and engineers in cities.
11. See if you can get hatty and shaka to stop trading with izzy. See post by lymond.
Agreed 4/1/1 play turns.
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
We are at the cap for hindu missionaries so we need to decide now whether or not to spread to hatty or not by missionary, she can be cheaply bribed out of theo, i tested it already.. If so then we can use one missionary on vandal (good idea because we can then leave it for cyrus to reconquer if need be).
I'll test the cyrus AP war hindu spread trick to see if it works. If it does, I see little reason not to do so other than if we're worried that the testing is misleading, feel free to object here.
I don't think bureau will be any help here as delhi is all specs, probably too expensive. Really Nat or Vassalage are the choices, leaning towards sticking in nat.
I'll try and get shaka and hatty to stop trading with liz but they like her quite a lot...
I'll test the cyrus AP war hindu spread trick to see if it works. If it does, I see little reason not to do so other than if we're worried that the testing is misleading, feel free to object here.
I don't think bureau will be any help here as delhi is all specs, probably too expensive. Really Nat or Vassalage are the choices, leaning towards sticking in nat.
I'll try and get shaka and hatty to stop trading with liz but they like her quite a lot...
When you say cheaply bribed you mean using a spy?? Or techs?? I would rather just gift the city.
Yep spread hindu to vandal. It makes the revolt easier too. Stick with nationhood.
I really wouldn't spread our religion to Cyrus as we want to be able to use the war vote again if some Ai make peace with him.
We should also be aiming to capture more Cyrus cities if need be. We may have to keep our score above hatsy. We could later convert her to keep our game score above hers.
My big concern at present is keep Hatsy at +12-13 diplo. With war -2. If our score falls below hers. -1. So maybe -3!
Bobby you made no comments on points 9-11.
